Why I think new reloaders should start with a single stage

[Rule3]

OK, this is JMO. Not starting a debate over brands or styles of presses. That has been hashed and beaten to a pulp!

You are spending you beginning learning curve time on the function of the dies, powder measure . seating, crimping etc, not learning how to operate a press that spits out ammo.

Too many new reloaders just want a press now that ammo is expensive and want to crank out lots of it without knowing the basics. I see a lot of it on another forum that has a lot more reloading questions than here.

Buying a single stage press or turret costs very little and can always be used or sold. Call it training wheels for reloaders
In the overall price tag of getting into reloading it is pennies well spent. I also think it is best to start with a straight wall revolver round like 38 Special/357 Mag or if you do not shoot revolvers 45 ACP is easy also.(low pressure big bullets)

Use one for while, get the basics down then you have a better idea of what you need in the future. Maybe it's all you need. Or you become obsessed and shoot more and more and need high production!. So buy the biggest and baddest press you can afford

Don't forget there are many other items to buy other than a press.!!

You can disagree all you want, just stating my view. Yes, it is slow production but if it's a hobby who cares?, if you need tons of ammo for competition , then no it's not for you.

With a SS (single stage) you are batch loading. The main advantage I see is you are handling the one piece of brass many times (3-4) It's all repetition. You get to look at case mouths, primer pockets etc.

You get to check and recheck every piece. Yes,it's redundant but that's the point. Then comes the Well I have done this 200 times and folks become complacent.

You learn how to set the dies how they work, re adjust them if needed for different bullets.

Sit and resize/de prime 100 rounds. You get the flow. Stop when you want.

Now learn to flare correctly, test a bullet to see how it seats. (handguns)

Learn how to prime either by hand or on the press. Stop when you want.

Now most important. get a loading tray, your powder measure and a quality scale (most important tool)

Drop your powder, weigh it. Do it again and again. Drop the powder in a case and set it in the tray. Check on the scale every 10th round or so. Load 20 rounds for testing. If you load more and there is an error it's more work to break them apart. Once you establish it's a good load than load whatever you want 50, 100 etc.

Now put your glasses on and use a flashlight and scan every case, do it again! They all look the same? All have powder?

OK, now put a bullet on top of every case.

Back to the press, first make a dummy round (no primer or powder) Learn how to set your seating/crimping die. If you use lead bullets it pretty easy seat to the cannelure (groove)

Most seating dies when set to crimp will seat the bullet a fraction more so watch for this.

Seat your bullet and learn how to adjust the crimp. If you use Lee FCD than that's a separate step (please no debate)

Check OAL (for revolvers and lead it's gonna be different than the manual) if it crimps in the groove no doubt you are fine.

Look at your finished dummy round. Check it in your gun, does it chamber?

Now go ahead and seat/crimp your rounds from the loading tray and put them in you ammo box or bag.

After you do this for 100's of rounds you understand all the little steps and it is actually therapeutic to do. Play some nice music (no commercials!)

When loading SD test loads and rifle loads I still single stage them.

I started with a single and still have it. My Lee turret serves me well for my needs now, It can still be a single stage. I can load about 150 rounds an hour on the turret and about 100 per hr single stage taking my time, so no big difference.

Sure I have missed some steps but this is the gist of it .

Everyone is in a hurry these days and want the easy way for everything. Learn the basics, read manuals (the front part, not the load data!) Get 3 manuals and the powder companies online data. Read, review and read some more.

Be safe and ask questions if you are unsure.

[steveno]

I have survived reloading on a single stage press ever since I started close to 50 years ago.

[gkitch]

Good stuff!

[sophie]

I couldn't agree more on the single stage press. I have a RCBS jr that I bought in '79 and still use it. I like the idea of having each brass in my hand for inspection of each one.

I have a friend that has a Dillon progressive and loaded some on it several months ago but have never invested in a progressive type reloader.

Some old habits and likes are hard to break.

[kwselke]

All I've ever used is the single stage press I started with 20+ years ago. I've never had a problem producing an adequate volume of reloads with it. I always worked in batches a step at a time; de-cap and re-size a bunch of brass at one sitting, hand prime at another, flare the case mouth at another, and then comes the serious part of measuring the powder and seating the bullets. The final step would be done from three case blocks holding 50 rounds each. Granted my highest volume of production was never over 2,000 rounds per month. In the past I probably have loaded all the steps from fired case to reloaded round all in the same session, but my normal process is to do all of the brass needing a step, set up to do that step, then go on to the next step if I feel like it. I have rejected some of my hand-loads, but the rejection comes at the bench not because of issues when I go to shoot.

[gkitch]

I will add that I prefer a dillon, especially for handgun rounds. The single stage press made me appreciate and understand it form the beginning though and the RCBS Rockchucker still has many uses in the reloading room.

[dla]

Originally Posted by Rule3

OK, this is JMO.
---snipped lots of stuff---

Nope. Wrong. An auto-indexing progressive is the safest press. Single-stage is great for blowing up guns.

I've never met a noob yet who couldn't learn to turn out quality ammo on a progressive. A Dillon machine holds it's value much better than any single-stage.

If you like fondling each cartridge more than shooting - a single-stage is the right press for you.

[forestswin]

I agree 100% on starting out with a single stage!!!!!!!!
this is what I have been doing for a little over a year now.

As you learn more and gain more experience - you realize how much more there is to learn. No its not rocket science - but there are a whole bunch of little details. They're not too complicated but at a nice, slower relaxing pace - you can pay attention to those details and address them as they come up.

I like to say this is a craft more than just a hobby. Developing the skills and experience first and understanding why, like an apprentice, is more important than getting into mass production.

As a side note: stuff happens - I saw in one of the cases in the loading block the powder looked a little high, I dumped it and in the bottom was a pretty big spider - not sure if you use a mag or standard primer on spiders - but remembering that instance - keeps me looking - if it had been all powder ?????

[KLYDE]

Started out on a single stage. Still using it, some 30 odd years later. Loads all the ammo I need.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by dla

Nope. Wrong. An auto-indexing progressive is the safest press. Single-stage is great for blowing up guns.

Never mentioned what is or is not safe.

As I mentioned, it's not a debate, but that is one bold statement with no basis in fact.

Also mentioned the value or resale has nothing to do with it which was addressed.

[moxie]

Originally Posted by dla

Nope. Wrong. An auto-indexing progressive is the safest press. Single-stage is great for blowing up guns.

I also agree with rule3 100%. The single stage is a model of simplicity.

How a single stage is great for blowing up guns, compared with a progressive, is beyond me.

I've got about 50K rounds on a single stage without blowing anything up.

Care to elaborate?

[Rickkster]

As I have said in other threads, I also recommend a new reloader to start with a single stage press. I have a single stage and a Dillon 550B. For our shooting needs, I use the single stage more.

Again , Just my opinion. Not arguing with anyone. I agree with you Rule3.

Cheers,

Rick

[DGT]

I reload an average of 5000 per year and have done so for over 7 years on a Forster single stage. I must be really lucky cause I haven't blown up any of my guns.

Rule3 has it nailed.

[2hawk]

Worthwhile points. I started on a Dillon 550B about 25 years ago, and it worked out fine. Just used it as a turret press until I could grasp everything that was going on, which didn't take very long at all.

I was sure I was going to keep handloading and shooting for years to come, and didn't want to put money into something that I would outgrow or find lacking for my needs down the road. The 550 has turned out many thousands of quality rounds for me, and continues to be everything I need for .223, .38, .357, .40, .44mag, and .45acp.

Just a different perspective.

ETA and nothing's blown up......

[GPJohn]

Rule3 - Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. I have wanted to start reloading but when things went crazy, I decided to wait until supplies were more plentiful. I haven't checked recently but this post will help to clarify what to look for.

Thanks - Mike

[BennyS]

I'm new to reloading and I opted for a lyman turret. What I like is I can use it as a single stage. So far the only multiple stages I have done is seating and crimping.

[JohnK]

I've been loading on an RCBS Jr., for some fifty years.

Although I use a Dillon SDB for some handgun loads, never felt the need for anything else.

That old press is ALL original, never replaced a single part. I have no idea, how many thousands of rounds, I've put through it.

[Vulcan Bob]

Well said Sir! I started out many moons ago at the tender age of fifteen with the old Lee Loader, ya know the one where you use a hammer to drive the cases in and out of the dies. As money became available I progressed to a C frame type press then an O frame press learning as I went. Then the IPSC bug got me and I got me a Dillon Square Deal press to keep up with my now voracious ammo needs and later the CASS shoots. Well that competition thing sort of went away and I retired the Square Deal and have been loading on an RCBS Rock Chucker ever since. Being able to inspect each case four times through the loading cycle is a good thing. Last year I went through six thousand small pistol and five thousand large pistol primers (a rough round count) one at a time and now and again a bad case is discovered and discarded. Of course being retired now helps with the time thing and saving empty's for the winter doldrums are a big help getting through to spring. Long story short I feel safer doing them one at a time.

[Bohica793]

Originally Posted by dla

Nope. Wrong. An auto-indexing progressive is the safest press. Single-stage is great for blowing up guns.

Please provide data to quantify this statement. While necessity is the Mother of invention, complexity is the father of disaster and a progressive press to the uninitiated is a prescription for just that.

Originally Posted by dla

I've never met a noob yet who couldn't learn to turn out quality ammo on a progressive.

The problem with idiot proofing is that God keeps making better idiots. I have had three separate instances where individuals have brought their new reloads they just made to the range that scared the hell out of me. Most were seated too deeply (OAL? What's that? You have to measure them?). Some were loaded with the wrong powder and charge for the particular round (I couldn't find any Blue Dot but they had Bullseye and I just used it instead). I've seen more primers in sideways or backwards than I care to remember. All that progressive press does for these folks is allow them to produce more chances of blowing themselves and the people around them up faster.

Originally Posted by dla

A Dillon machine holds it's value much better than any single-stage.

If you are worried about resale value, you are obviously not committed for the long haul. I have a single stage. If I get another press, I will task this one to a more specialized role.

Originally Posted by dla

If you like fondling each cartridge more than shooting - a single-stage is the right press for you.

If you are not fondling your cartridges, you have no idea if you have a good one or one that is about to fail you, possibly catastrophically. I will touch, fondle and finger every cartridge to make sure I always have fingers left to do so with.

Reloaders throw rounds together as a mass production activity. Handloaders develop loads for various scenarios and conditions in small batches working through various combinations until they find what is right for their weapons. Reloading is work. Handloading is art.

One additional point - I am not opposed to the use of progressive presses -- BY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE. People just starting out need to understand the science of load ONE round well enough before they start cranking them out in volume.

My opinion. Deal with it accordingly.

[forestswin]

C'Mon guys
its like we're in a bar and we're discussing tools geesh!!!!

single stage and auto progressive presses - its not like its religion or politics
it doesn't call for hopping off your stool and getting in someone's face

its Ginger or Marianne

now if I say Marianne and you say Ginger we're good

but if you say Marinanne too - now we got a problem

its a real shame - we can't just go to the lounge and have a few beers electronically

[Bruce51]

Reloading is my hobby. That means I take the time to produce quality ammunition one round at a time.

The RCBS jr that I use was bought used in the 1970's.

I have never felt the need to buy another.

Hand priming allows one to feel when the primer is properly seated.

Checking the charged cases in a loading tray insures that each round is properly charged and the loads are safe.

Checking crimp and OAL means the loaded cartridges will chamber and fire.

I found an overcharged case recently. Dumping out the powder revealed a small lint ball from the tumbling process.

Must have hidden itself real good to make it to the loading block.

It just feels good to know that the ammo will perform.

On a side note I once pulled apart someone else's reloads.

I found the cases to contain both Herco and 4227

I guess they violated the only one powder on the bench rule.

BLM

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by dla

Nope. Wrong. An auto-indexing progressive is the safest press. Single-stage is great for blowing up guns.

I've never met a noob yet who couldn't learn to turn out quality ammo on a progressive. A Dillon machine holds it's value much better than any single-stage.

If you like fondling each cartridge more than shooting - a single-stage is the right press for you.

No sir, you got it wrong. A progressive press is specifically designed to crank out ammo in larger quantity. They will never be as accurate as a single stage press. And a single stage press is not for the lazy.

My father has an old C&H single stage H press that he bought 50 years ago. He would laugh in your face if you told him it's not safe. He still uses it to this day. And of the thousands of rounds he's loaded with it, he's never had a problem. Sure mistakes are made. BUT THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT!! Single stage presses force you to slow down and pay attention to what your doing so you catch those mistakes. You can't do that with a progressive. At least not as easily.

[m657]

Great post Rule3 and I agree with many of your comments.

Of course, I've never had a single stage press of any kind and know squat about them.

What I do know, is I started circa 1980 with a Dillon 450 progressive, upgraded soon to a 550, and after 20+ years went to a 650.

My own style of learning curve somehow survived, I had no catastrophes, no blown up guns, etc.

I did learn how to think in more precise terms and come to understand the interrelated aspects of each stage of the process.

I was drawn into the rich history of ballistic science, arcane firearms laws & patent office rules, and the significant difference between an endless variety of seemingly identical powders, calibers, etc, just as would have been likely were I a single stage fan.

Respect for the process and the potential for havoc via hurried or carelessness is a demanding truth, whether single or other type of press is involved.

I enjoy seeing the various comments & observations.

There was a point in my early shooting hobby where time was limited, and learning to reload on a press that produced an in-spec round with each operation of the handle was the only way I could afford the time demanded for going to the range.

I have found ways at times, that I do choose to use my 650 as a form of single stage press.

After over 30 years at the loading bench, my trusty Dillon serves my needs very well. That all the various requirements of the process occur at the same time, is a satisfaction that has its own rewards for those who choose to do such.

I've helped friends make their own decision about "which" to start with....and it's about an equal portion that choose either.

I've helped a few who started on single stage decades ago, take a few sessions to learn whether they wanted to change. Some do, some don't.

We all meet at the range.

Thanks for your thoughts Rule3. I'm all for helping as many as possible learn how to safely reload. Some of us will be using a multistage press.

[fyimo]

Originally Posted by steveno

I have survived reloading on a single stage press ever since I started close to 50 years ago.

I'm with you having started with a single stage press in 1984 and I'm still going strong with it and I'm 69 years old and I will still sit at the press and load 300 rounds at a sitting.

They are simple and fool proof with the only possible problem would be either double charging a pistol round or failing to drop powder in either a pistol or rifle round. But simple checks before seating a bullet in any of them will prevent either problem.

[blujax01]

As you say my friend, it is not a debate.

I'm glad it works for you.

Peace,

~ Alan

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by forestswin

C'Mon guys


its Ginger or Marianne

now if I say Marianne and you say Ginger we're good

but if you say Marinanne too - now we got a problem

As long as it isn't Mrs Howell (Lovey)

More into Mary Ann, Ginger was to high maintenance

[Jellybean]

Originally Posted by Rule3

OK, this is JMO. Not starting a debate over brands or styles of presses. That has been hashed and beaten to a pulp!

Apparently it hasn't been hashed and beaten to a pulp enough. Now what are your qualifications and credentials to make that undebateable opinion?

[brucev]

Re: Op. Agree completely. Reloading is not rocket science. However, reloading is not just simply cranking out a simple load for high volume shooting. There are times you are going to want to do some load development, etc. The plain hard facts are that the SS press is more useful for working up loads w/ a variety of powders, bullets, etc. This is especially true when working with both rifles and handguns. Those who disagree are welcome to their own opinions. That's why manufacturers offer different products. Not everyone wants or needs the same equipment. However, I have been loading since 1980 on both SS and progressive presses. And my opinion is based on that experience.

[silentflyer]

Have a Lyman All American bout in the 70's, still works great. The one thing I might suggest is to find somene who has reloaded for a while and have them give a new reloader some hands on advice at first.

[wheelgun28]

I would add that before you buy ANYTHING, you need to be honest with yourself. What is your level of mechanical ability, can you look at something and see how it works or do you smash your finger with a hammer when hanging a picture?

Next is how well can you read, comprehend and follow written instructions?

If your the kind guy that can't replace the windshield wipers on your car with out help, well Walmart sell ammo for you, and thats ok.

If your someone that can do things and can use tools but you wouldn't tune up you can by yourself. I'd guess you should start out with a single stage press. Do the reading get comfortable with the hows and whys. Then move slowly and methodically until you gain knowledge and familiarity.

However if your the guy that pulls the engine out of your truck and rebuilds it for fun. Then I would guess that a single stage will bore you to tears in very short order. Your the guy that can read the manual, understand why adjustments are made. You understand the steps and how each can change the end result.

To me everyone isnt an mechanical prodigy or engineer. They make different machines because they fit different needs and people.

The analogy often used is that you don't learn to drive in a Ferrari. Well this might be somewhat true, but folks that live on the race track a Ferrari is just a fancy car, nothing to be afraid of. To others its an over price over engineered complicated machine that still only gets you from point a to point b. It does the same thing as a moped, nothing more.

Progressives are unsafe, well not really. The factory makes in one day more that any of us will use in a lifetime. I don't think they make them on single stage machines?

To close my little story, different strokes for different folks.

Know your ability, know what your buying and how it works BEFORE you buy anything.

If I started with a single stage I would have given up in very short order. Thats just me...

Yes I do own and use a single stage, and several progressive presses.

[Maximumbob54]

Rule3,

Way to stir up the Dillon fanboys since they don't have a blue single stage press.

Let Dillon put out a single stage press and they will begin to agree with you.

[RussellD]

Dillon makes a Basic loader for those who are not yet ready for a full blown progressive press, and yet want to leave the ghetto of Lee products.

[blujax01]

... Next week, Rule3 and Maximum Bob explain why newbies should be required to make their load computations using a slide rule before they are allowed to use a calculator!

gotcha'!

[SMSgt]

After nearly 40 years of reloading countless rounds on a S/S press--with no squibs, no over charges, and only two duds, both a primer issue--I'm glad to hear my press is unsafe. I look right into that problem.

[lhump1961]

I consider myself mechanically inclined and capable but it has been my experience that most of us learn our lessons in life through the mistakes that we make...some mistakes carry a heavier consequence than others...bad loading is one.

It find the opinion that it is better to start on a SS very sound advice. (not required just better!)

Would you let a brand new rider take your Ultra Classic for a spin?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Jellybean

Apparently it hasn't been hashed and beaten to a pulp enough. Now what are your qualifications and credentials to make that undebateable opinion?

Look who arose from the ashes! You only contribute when you want to bash someone or something. Go back into hiding.

I have no qualifications unlike you who are qualified in all things.

You do not post any helpful info for all these new reloaders. Their questions might have been avoided had they learned the basics to start with.

You can debate all you want, you do not have to agree (which you never do) so write your own thread.

[Rickkster]

Originally Posted by blujax01

... Next week, Rule3 and Maximum Bob explain why newbies should be required to make their load computations using a slide rule before they are allowed to use a calculator!

gotcha'!

Hahaha! Man I always hated my slide rules. Give me calculators with BIG buttons.

Cheers,

Rick

[Rule3]

The point if there is one, is that a single stage press alone will run $100 to $150. A really nice Rockchucker. It can be used for ever. It can be sold, it is a small price to pay when you consider how much you end up paying for all the equipment and components in reloading.

[lhump1961]

Originally Posted by Jellybean

Apparently it hasn't been hashed and beaten to a pulp enough. Now what are your qualifications and credentials to make that undebateable opinion?

That's your idea of a thread contribution? Wow.

I guess that fits with the fact that in 7 years you haven't liked anyone's post.

[lhump1961]

Originally Posted by blujax01

... Next week, Rule3 and Maximum Bob explain why newbies should be required to make their load computations using a slide rule before they are allowed to use a calculator!

gotcha'!

Don't forget that a calculator rarely blows up in your hand.

[cddanjr]

Bought a Lee turret press, removed the turning rod in the center, learned one step at a time. Got a very sore back popping out primers on 1500 brass the very first time! ouch. Since then, have put the turning rod back in, got rid of the digital scale, use time and patience.

Now, I have never had a bunny fart load, double load, or any other catastrophic goof. I dont load that way, I planned out a safe, step by step loading plan.

Yes I am very new to reloading, and plan on doing it for a long time. This is how you get to do it for a very long time, read and learn, support and encourage others.

Buying a single stage press is a waste of time and money for me.

The Lee turret does the same job and now I dont have to get rid of the single stage press, and buy the Lee turret I know have.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by lhump1961

Don't forget that a calculator rarely blows up in your hand.

Lets not forget all the early models that actual did do that, It was the batteries.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by lhump1961

That's your idea of a thread contribution? Wow.

I guess that fits with the fact that in 7 years you haven't liked anyone's post.

Actually Mr Bean is very knowledgeable about reloading, and has had some very useful information.

He just does not play well with others.

[venomballistics]

I fully agree with the single stage starting point.
while a progressive may largely replace it. there are some operations better suited for a single stage press, such as short runs for testing or special purpose, or disassembly of some blooper loads. One never really outgrows a single stage press.

Before the single stage finds itself in these duties, it is as simple a tool as one can have, thus removing the layers of press specific mechanics from the learning curve where the user can just focus on the essentials such as die adjustments and charge weights, and not on progressive press mechanics and quirks due to short cycles and adjustments specific to them.

[dla]

Originally Posted by cddanjr

Bought a Lee turret press

The Lee Classic Turret is the best entry-level press for the $. It is the only non-progressive press I recommend to noobs.

Single-stage press users are the ones who post pictures of their blown revolvers asking our opinion on the cause - because they can't get their head around the fact that they double-charged a round. All it takes is a brain fart while using Titegroup with a load block - BOOM! Ends all the supposed superiority of fondling each cartridge with a single-stage.

You have to be very creative to double-charge a round on an auto-indexing progressive. Very creative on a Dillon machine. Very difficult to make a squib also.

Minimizing the human element from the reloading process is what makes an auto-indexing progressive so much safer. Machines don't have "senior-moments".

Regarding the myth of "higher quality ammo" from a single-stage, look at what the top shooters in the nation use - Dillon machines. Or read up on the review of high-dollar turret presses that Joe at RealGuns did to get an understanding of an objective way to measure the "quality". Darn few shooters can shoot to the limit of their weapon and even fewer can measure the effect of the reloading machine used - don't fool yourself.

Finally, something to remember. Just because somebody's been doing something a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon. The old saying "if ain't broke don't fix it" is a lazy man's objection to progress.

The single-stage press has it's place, but it is NOT safer or easier to learn on. It is just slower and more human-error prone.

[Bkreutz]

I use both. I use a Lee turret (old one, no auto index) to develop loads and to load small runs of calibers I don't shoot a lot. Once I find the load I want to use in competition I transfer my results over to the Dillon 650. I could develop the loads on the 650 but it's easier on a single stage. I load 1000 to 1300 rounds of 9mm a week so to me a single stage is not an option for that caliber. I actually spend more time prepping the brass than I do loading them.

[Jellybean]

Originally Posted by Rule3

Look who arose from the ashes! You only contribute when you want to bash someone or something. Go back into hiding.

I have no qualifications unlike you who are qualified in all things.

You do not post any helpful info for all these new reloaders. Their questions might have been avoided had they learned the basics to start with.

You can debate all you want, you do not have to agree (which you never do) so write your own thread.

I've been back from the ashes for a little while now, and nothing has changed. The point of my post here was that you admitted a topic was beaten to death then tried to keep it one sided by saying you didn't want to debate it.

I post things I feel need to be posted and don't waste cyberspace by repeatedly posting things over and over and over... Which is why it may seem to you that I never agree with you, once someone gives good information I don't feel the need to repeat it. If all the posts are one sided and I don't agree, then I will let the poster know so they can choose what they want to do. If there is something I feel needs to be added to a good response I will post then too. Many of the questions these "new reloaders" ask don't really need to be asked if they'd only read a good reliable book, or even a good reliable loading manual.

By the way, I never "Google" for answers either, and I don't care how may posts I make just to hear myself type. If my posts bother you that much use your "ignore" feature. If you don't know how it works, remember "Google is your friend".

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by Rule3

The point if there is one, is that a single stage press alone will run $100 to $150. A really nice Rockchucker. It can be used for ever. It can be sold, it is a small price to pay when you consider how much you end up paying for all the equipment and components in reloading.

As far as price is concerned, you are correct. You will get no argument from me.

And I do hope you realize that I'm having fun here.

If a person thinks they should use a progressive, or if a person thinks they should not use a progressive, they're probably both right!

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Jellybean

I've been back from the ashes for a little while now, and nothing has changed. The point of my post here was that you admitted a topic was beaten to death then tried to keep it one sided by saying you didn't want to debate it.

I post things I feel need to be posted and don't waste cyberspace by repeatedly posting things over and over and over... Which is why it may seem to you that I never agree with you, once someone gives good information I don't feel the need to repeat it. If all the posts are one sided and I don't agree, then I will let the poster know so they can choose what they want to do. If there is something I feel needs to be added to a good response I will post then too. Many of the questions these "new reloaders" ask don't really need to be asked if they'd only read a good reliable book, or even a good reliable loading manual.

By the way, I never "Google" for answers either, and I don't care how may posts I make just to hear myself type. If my posts bother you that much use your "ignore" feature. If you don't know how it works, remember "Google is your friend".

I even went so far as to give you a semi compliment. Apparently you can not read and comprehend. I never said it was non debatable.

My first sentence was it was:
"OK, this is JMO. Not starting a debate over brands or styles of presses. That has been hashed and beaten to a pulp!"

Then I said:

"You can disagree all you want, just stating my view. Yes, it is slow production but if it's a hobby who cares?, if you need tons of ammo for competition , then no it's not for you."

But you have to reply in a rude and snarky way.

Who mentioned Google

So with all your qualifications write your own thread and tell us all the best way for a newbee to learn, according to you.

Based on responses from this forum you are in the minority.

Go take a Dale Carnegie Course or something.

[Jellybean]

Originally Posted by lhump1961

That's your idea of a thread contribution? Wow.

I guess that fits with the fact that in 7 years you haven't liked anyone's post.

Well, I had typed up a long response, but then noticed it wasn't a "debate". And if you want my contribution, look at all the other times this topic came up "for debate" over the years.

When I joined this forum seven years ago it wasn't an internet dating site. There were no "Likes" and no "Friends". It was a place where you could come and ask a question or help someone else that had one. I don't care if anyone likes my posts or wants to be my friend, if I can help someone that needs help, real help, I'll help them.

And with that thought in mind, since you are so offended by my not "liking" anyones posts, I'll give you a like so you can get in touch with your inner feelings. Just think of it as a cyber hug.