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Old 08-20-2013, 11:35 AM
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Default Annealing brass

While looking through the Lyman cast bullet guide at my LGS, I came across a photo of some fired cases with sooty streaks down the sides similar to what I see on some of my reloads. The authors said this is caused by the cases getting brittle and needing to be annealed so that the case would be able to expand upon firing to better seal and prevent gasses from blowing back into the chamber. My cases, 357 and 44 mostly, have probably been fired more than 10 times but seem fine for more use.
Does anybody anneal their cases and how is it done?
Scott
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:47 AM
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Recently I took 45acp reloads with several different powders to the range. Consistently, the cases with the light Bullseye loads had significant sooty streaks down the side. Other powders, including Unique, W231, SR7625, and Clays, did not have nearly the same level of sooty streaks.

The cases have all been reloaded around 3-5 times, used the same primers and taper crimp. From that I concluded there's something special about the Bullseye loads, as opposed to a case issue, which I need to look into.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:53 AM
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357 and 44 .. no, just get new brass.
Now if your wildcatting, where a case may undergo a radical transformation from one caliber to the next, such as 223 to 300 whisper, then its necessary and done thus ...

in a pan with two or three inches of water in the bottom, place a block to set your cases mouth up upon so that the case head and part of the body is submerged.
now heat them with a torch, focusing the heat upon the neck and shoulders of the case until its glowing red and immediately knock the red hot case into the water.

it is important to protect the case head from the heat, as well as a portion of the body .. bad juju if these sections go soft on you.

in you case ... don't bother .. there are risks involved that should only be taken when there is no other option
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:55 AM
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In handgun cases, it has more to do with lower pressures not expanding the cases quickly enough to seal. I shoot light loads of HP-38 and they all get sooty, even new cases.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:24 PM
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You can do the annealing in a pan of water as explained above.
It's pretty simple. Actually no need to get them glowing red before tipping them over into the water. They'll be 'dead soft' at that temp and may buckle on you in some reloading instances. Bottle neck rifle especially.

I use the finger tip method.
A pan or bowl of water is still needed. I start with the brass de-primed. The only reason for that is that it drys out quicker afterwards for me (rifle) but pistol brass doesn't seem to make too much difference.

Bowl of water on the bench or floor,,propane torch on the bench or floor next to it.
Take a case in hand holding by the case head between your thumb and index finger. Put the mouth of the case into the flame and at the same time roll the case quickly in your fingers.
You only need the tip of the flame to hit the very end of the case mouth.
Do a quick cadence count of 1,2,3,4 as you roll the case in the flame and then drop it into the water.

The case head will not become hot if you do it quick. The cadence count is for uniformity case to case.
If the case becomes too hot in your fingers, you're keeping it in the flame too long.
Step up the cadence and/or back away from the flame a little. Very scientific..using pain as a guide.

You can do them as fast as you can pick one up and count 1 to 4 and drop it in the water.

I don't do 38sp cause I have lots of them. Don't do 9mm cause I'd burn myself. I do 44sp, 44-40 and 45 Colt though after about 8 loadings. Nothing set in stone about the numbers.
I shoot minimum or near minimum loads anyway.
I anneal rifle calibers after 5 or 6 loadings and lightly trim them.
Light loads in the rifles too.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:31 PM
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I have only found it necessary to anneal bottle neck cases as I get enough loading out of straight neck cases before they split.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:35 PM
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I used to reload ancient brass black powder rifle cartridges... some so rare I only had one cartridge (44-77 Sharps BN and 25-21 Pope for example). In those cases I heated the entire case then knocked it off a brick into the water. The case head got hot but not as hot as the mouth. I had no problem with head separation but these were much lower pressures and the case length was greater. I just offer this as a side note as it is not relevant to 357 brass and higher pressures.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:28 PM
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Thank you all for your thoughts. I may try to anneal some just to see if it makes any difference. You know how it is, always looking for something to tinker with.
Scott
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:41 PM
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Just another way to anneal. link
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:12 AM
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I use an auto annealer every other firing on my .308 Win LR match cases. Allows for a consistent neck tension, the annealing combats the work hardening.

My gunsmith bought this machine as a few of us in the group shoot expensive brass; .338 Lapua, .408 Chey-Tac, etc. Annealing REALLY extends the life of rifle brass.

Doubt if it's needed on pistol brass.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepp2 View Post
Just another way to anneal. link
Hornady sells a rig to do it this way. I got one but have never used it.
What I have done is to broil them. This method won't over
anneal anything and does all the cases the same. You may have to
do it more than once as it is a light anneal. I have done this to some
445 cases made from rifle brass where the new neck is where the
old body of the cartridge was. Annealing is a must in a case like this.
(pun intended).

Decap the cases using a universal decapper. You need to get water
inside the case bodies. Put the cases facing up in a shallow tin pan
and slowly add water till its about half way up the body or within
an inch of the mouth. Put all in the oven up near the broiler and hit the switch.
My oven will turn off the broiler when it thinks it's overheating. About
600 deg. Maybe 20 minutes. Take the pan out (carefully!) and dump
everything in a big pan of cold water. Dry the cases. Proceed as normal.
I think this works because the broiler element is actually hotter
than the 620 you need to start annealing. The radiant heat next to the
element is also. I have done this a couple of times to the cut-off brass.
If you need it softer like for necking down to reform a case you may
need to go to a hotter method such as mentioned above.

---
Nemo

Last edited by Nemo288; 08-23-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:54 PM
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In the ammunition factories, case neck annealing is a rapid process. They pass under a series of gas burners. I doubt if they spend more than a few seconds in the flames. And there is no quenching afterward.

I have seen suggestions that you dip case necks into molten lead. That may work, but I have never done it that way. I use the propane torch and quench method, but usually only when I am forming cases of one caliber from brass of another caliber.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:33 PM
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There's a number of video's for home made and commercial annealer's but the Vertex seems to be the cats *** at around $500. I've been thinking about building a homemade one myself for doing large quantities of 223. Everything is air cooled and no water involved. This one basically just rotates cases around and does a 3-4 second spin per case in the path of two regular propane torches and later a bin drop off.

New Case Neck Annealing Machine
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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When I form 22 Remington Jet cases from 357 brass I stand them in a pan with water about 3/4 deep heat one with a torch and push it over in the water, if you do not anneal most of the cases will collapse when you try to work them. Jeff
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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I have never annealed pistol brass. With low pressure cartridges such as 38 Special and 44 Special I tend to use the brass until it starts fraying at the mouth. With the high pressure cartridges such as 9mm and 40 S&W I scrap the brass after 4 reloads.
I have annealed rifle brass when I used to form brass for obsolete calibers for which brass was not available.
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