Hallo,

some time ( ... a lot) ago i asked for some advice about reloading my new ( ...old ) Webley MkIV

after several tests with several bullets sizes and shapes ( .358 / .359 / RN / WCHB etcc...) i bought the NEI 169A mould for a 200 gr bullet ( ...just like the original )

Well finally today ( after many problems about the bullet sizing ) i have got a good lot of bullets in .360 and .361 size.

Now , trying to perfect the right loading , i noticed these things :

the 200 gr bullet , at a distance of 25 mt ( 27 yds about )
hits the target 3" high high and 4" right ( ...about )towards the center

...it had never happened with the others lighters bullets
(158 gr and so on...)

....???? some gyroscopic effect ????

then i wouldlike to know if some of you had some experience in that

here the basic load data :

Powder : Vihta. N320 gr 1,9
Bullet : from NEI mould 200 gr , sized .361/360
Oal : 1.260" - 32,00 mm
V° : 561 fps /170 mps
...very light crimp

and the basic handgun data :

Grove : seven , clockwise , size .3615
Bore : size .349 / .350 ( about )
Cylinder troaths : size .3600/3602 ( min/max )

aiming accordig to the particularity i said , the dispersion
on target it is about 10-12 Inches for 10 shots
( ... but i'm not a handgun champion )

some of you can tell me something ( ..help me ) about it ?

thank you and best regards

CC

It's Bore Transit Recoil. What is happening is that the gun is recoiling in an upwards direction while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. Heavier bullets move slower and thus spend more time transiting the barrel. As a result the muzzle is pointed in a more upwards direction when that bullet finally leaves the barrel. As a result heavier bullets ALWAYS shoot higher than lighter bullets unless you are holding the gun upside down.

Since your Webley was most likely originally regulated for the 38/200 service load common at the time I suspect that an intervening owner at some time filed down the front sight to regulate it for a lighter bullet. At this point you probably have just two options if you want to continue using a 200 grain bullet. One is to have the front sight welded up and re-regulated for this weight. Two is to learn how low you need to aim to get good hits on your target.

You could load the 200 grain a little faster. The Webley is a tough pistol, be reasonable! Take it up a 1/10 grain at a time, if 2 or 3 tenths don't do the trick, do research for another low presser load and try again. there are so many powders you will find one. (Or like scooter123 said shoot low) Ivan

Hi,

thank you to Scooter123 and Ivan the Butcher for the quick reply

actually in fact i solved by aiming 3 / 4 inches low and 1 / 2 inches left
but.... honestly i do not like this method

however i can't/wan't modify the sights ( front and rear ) , because they are formed along the barrel ( unique casting ) - modify it would alter irreparably a nice , old handgun

i think/hope the only way it is to work on the load

So i could increase load to 2,0 gr to obtain about 35 / 40 fps more
( but remain into 1200 Bar ) or utilize a little slower powder
(Vitha N340 ) to increase bullet speed saving the max pressure

But ...a higher bullet speed could help ?

Some experience about Webly and heavy bullets ?

Thank you and best regards

CC

I don't think that you'll find a solution by increasing your velocity. Keep in mind that as you increase the charge you will also increase the recoil. As a result I think you'll end up chasing your tail. I've compared 158 grain loads in 38 spl and 357 Magnum and the difference in the point of impact was small enough that I would attribute it to a difference in how I managed the recoil. Basically the Magnums shot higher simple because I was a bit too "loose" in managing the recoil.

What I would suggest is that you consider going with a lighter bullet, such as a 158 grain bullet. Yeah, it probably will be difficult to find this weight in a 0.360 diameter but perhaps you can find a die that will allow you to cast your own. Another option would be to use an arbor press and an Upsetting Fixture to mash some 357 bullets down enough to bulge them up to a diameter that you could then re-size to a .360 diameter.

Go to the cast boolits site and read about "beagling" your .358 molds up to.360. It's cheap, reversible, and won't harm your die.

__________________
and what his trumpet saith

Hi ,

ah ! ....a lighter resized bullet

i had not thought it :-))

well , it should no difficult to cast a "enlarged" 158 gr RN and after
resizing it to .360 ...good idea

i will try

The .380/200 cartridge as used in WWII and afterwards generally has a jacketed 178gr bullet in the military loading. (i forget when the change was made, but it was before the war.) So your revolver may be regulated for the "lighter" bullet! There's 180gr bullets out there, so maybe that'll give you an option beyong the 158gr. variety.