I would like to buy an RCBS Pro2000 Auto Indexing press but my contact at RCBS tells me that it could nine months before I see it so I'm considering a Dillon 650. I've never used anything but RCBS or Redding equipment so a Dillon would be a departure from what I'm used to. I'd like to hear from users of both machines about them if possible.

I know their warranties and service are the same; it's the operating quirks that I'm primarily interested in. Speed of loading is not a concern either; I need some relief from the number of rotational movements of my arthritic shoulder joint that my single-stage RockChucker IV requires.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Ed

Currently I have two Dillon Square B presses for two different calibers. I have had other presses and have used other progressives in the past. IMHO, all the major players make nice products with nothing to really differentiate in operation. People swear by Dillon and so do I. I'd also swear by Hornady and RCBS.

The OLD Chevy, Ford, Mopar deal.

They all make nice and reliable equipment.

You make your choice and learn to live with it as they all have their quirks.

Sometimes it's like the GREAT FOOTBALL RIVALRIES with all the individual ENTHUSIASM.

TOO MUCH THOUGH, and the Big Gorilla is going to send you to the SHOWERS.

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

This is like the question; "Who has the best looking kids?" Nope, not going there. I have already voiced my preference in a number of similar threads.

__________________
Minimize the variables

Ok

where is that bag of popcorn and My beer

ya thats a tuff question OP

Ford Chevy... etc etc etc

Red, Green, Blue

NFL NCAA

Yer Call

__________________
--Stav--

I have an RCBS auto 4x4 and an RCBS AmmoMaster.
They work, I am happy with them, and they have their quirks.
The priming system is the weak link for me.
I just prime my cases first now. It only takes a few minutes to hand prime in advance and I get a better feel anyway.

IMO there is more than one option on progressive presses.
Some would have you believe that there is no choice.

I have friends with Hornady progressives and they work too.
I have even heard of the bright red presses making ammo.
I have nothing against Smurf blue, I have even been to the factory store and played with the different presses.

On a side note I saw a video of a Green Machine in action.
I hope to find one for sale someday (cheap), I think I need one for the collection

varmint243,

I do most of my case priming ahead of time.

I prime either with an RCBS Auto bench mounted unit or a Hand Primer.

I box and store the Primed Brass until reloading time.

I just feel it's also a little SAFER than a tube full primers and a hurried Progressive Loader type person.

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Just my opinion fellers, so don't shoot me. Dillon manufacturers progressive press as a main product line. Dillon has dedicated all it's efforts into designing and manufacturing progressive presses. The other manufacturers "seem" to have started manufacturing progressive presses as an afterthought, to get a "piece of the pie", their market share. One looks like their progressive is a modified single stage. When one thinks "progressive press", one thinks "Dillon".

So, if I were in the market for a progressive press, I'd go Dillon.

[QUOTE=
On a side note I saw a video of a Green Machine in action.
I hope to find one for sale someday (cheap), I think I need one for the collection [/QUOTE]

Uh..um...if you like to work on the darn presses trying to get 'em to work right..all the time..then get a Green Machine. Otherwise run, don't walk, the other way. They are just another iteration of the old CH mark III IV V presses. Have one in 38 and it do work. Had a GM in 45 and it never worked right..never. I do own an few Dillons(5 Super 1050s and a regular 1050..2 650s and a couple 550s). I also have a Hornady "ammo factory" which it ain't. Still a good machine but the Dillons all work..they all have quirks...even my old RCBS A2 and A3 machines even though they are single stage only. What someone said..seems as though the other companies are playing catch up for their piece of the pie. Remember the abortion that RCBS made to convert a Rockchucker into a progressive? It worked after a fashion. And the Lee Loadmaster?? Shoulda been named the Lee Failmaster. Just takes too much work to get 'em to work correctly for too short a period of time. Oh and I had a Dillon that didn't work correctly. Bought it used. Sent it in to Dillon and it came back good as new. And works just like it should. All that long winded stuff being said.. Pays yer money and takes yer chances. But go blue

Only progressives I've used are Dillon . I still shoot Bullseye & have a 1050 set up for 45acp & a SDB set up for 38 special ( also spare head , powder measure & dies for 357 mag ) . Other handgun calibers I load on a Redding T-7 & rifle ammo on an old RCBS Rockchucker . All make quality ammo . I do like the ability to crank out a seasons worth of 45's & 38's ( target loads ) in 4 - 5 days leisurely . There's a learning curve with all progressives & Dillon's customer service is second to none . A buddy I shoot with has a Hornady progressive he's happy with . It all depends on what you want & how much you've got to spend .

I have all Dillon progressives. I'd like to try a Hornady LNL but probably never will. It it ain't broke don't fix it. Buy Dillon and you know it will work.

No love for Hornady?

It has to be Blue or nothing at all

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

If you want to come up to Massachusetts, which I don't recommend, you can use the Hornady LNL AP and Dillon 650 side by side. I have had the LNL AP for a while and just bought the Dillon 650 last week. I think the Dillon 650 all around is a better machine than the LNL AP, but the calibers changes are very expensive. The breakdown is like this:

Hornady
$35 shellplate
$40 dies

Dillion
$75 caliber conversion kit
$25-$100 for toolhead or toolhead+ powder drop
$40 dies

Since you asked about the quirks of the Dillon 650, the two things that bother
me is the poor spent primer collection and the fact that the primer feeder feeds a primer weather the cartridge needs it or not. When changing calibers or tweaking, I end up with 20-30 primers that need to be reloaded. I really like the fact that it comes with most of the casefeeder (except the bowl) in the stock configuration. A lot of people complain that powder is spilled due to the shellplate snapping into place and suggest aftermarket bearings and cutting springs to smooth it out. I find if you put the powder drop in station 3 and insert the bullet before the shell plate indexes, no primer is spilled.

Chris

Love may be a little extreme, but I really appreciate my 2 Hornady LNL AP presses and have been happy with Hornady customer support.

Two good points - "There's a learning curve with all progressives....."
and "It all depends on what you want & how much you've got to spend."

My only input is that APS strips are the devil.

I learned my lesson.

I have a team of elves working night and day priming cartridges that are then passed over to rainbow unicorns who ever-so-gently count individual crystals of powder into each case. From there, toga wearing fairies hover over and drop bullets into the cases.
Finally, teams of gnomes work in unison placing identical crimps to the enchanted round.

Nuh-uh, you ain't getting me into this discussion.
No way...

That is my only objection to the RCBS machine. But others tell me that the strips are no trouble to load with primers. I think you might as well load the tubes and be done with it but not having done that since I used my RCBS bench-mounted priming tool, I may be out of touch with that.

Ed

I got a Dillon 550 in the late 80's. Still have it, don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds I've loaded on it.. One of these days I would like to buy another 550 so I could have one set up for large primers and one for small primers..

Haven't used the 650 or the Red or the Green. I can tell you I'm happy with the 550..

I also have a RCBS single stage I load some rifles on. I had it before the Dillon and it's a good press and I still use it..

Back to the old Chevy -vs- Ford thing,, Personally I like black Cadillac's and blue progessive presses.

Best advice I can give-

Do not buy any until you've loaded some ammo on each of the ones you are considering- period.

Each has advantages/disadvantages and quirks, and you won't figure them out until you've tried them a good bit.

The only odd one is the Square Deal B, as its dies are proprietary and regular dies you already own can't be used with it.

__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident

There is a LOT of info that has been discussed already. Try doing a search and you should come up with tons. I can't help, I'm a single stage guy.

I have always had a preference to RCBS but I believe that Dillon has a more advanced progressive loader. I believe that both RCBS and Dillon have an excellent reputation for customer service and support. I also prefer Dillon's selection of various levels of progressive press. Personally, I prefer the RL550B because it offers more hands on control of the loading operation for my handgun cartridges. I still prefer a single stage RCBS for all rifle cartridges.

Steve

Dillon. Have an SDB, 23 years old, have loaded hundreds of thousands on it. Replaced some small springs, powder measure cracked, all fixed on their dime. As close to 100% functional as anything mechanical can be. Load 38's, 9's and 45 ACP, mostly 38. Why can't Dillon design a car and have the same warranty and service?!! Dang, that'd awesome!

The 650 is a much better engineered machine IMO.

If you are going to crank out a ton of ammo in one caliber then go with a Dillon 650. If you are going to load a bunch of different calibers and switch between small and large primers then go with a Dillon 550.

My wife and I are cowboy action shooters and we burn through a bunch of ammo annually. We usually shoot a thousand rounds each month in the summer. I can set down at my 650 and turn out 100 rounds in 6 minutes or less. That is with my case feeder, primer tube, bullet tray and powder dispenser all ready to go.

Dillon presses are not cheap but they do come with a lifetime warranty should you need it.

Jay

Ed -

Did you read Chief38's recent thread about the 650?

OPERATED A DILLON 650 TODAY

I pondered getting a progressive a while back.
Trying to filter out all the competing fanboy raves made me crazy.
Then I found what seems to be a great side-by-side comparison:
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Hands down Hornady lock-n-load is the best (my opinion) Friends have progressive RCBS and Dillion and they both wish they had mine. The easiest to precisely adjust powder and the most consistent repetitive loader.
I load 40SW,38 special, 357 mag, .45, 223, 308 and 7mm mag and have never been more happy with my choice.

John

Yes I did. Ironically, it hit this forum minutes after I learned I couldn't get an RCBS progressive for nine months or longer and had just started thinking about a Dillon.

Ed

As Chris said above.

If you load a lot of calibers be sure to calculate the price of all the "stuff" you need to convert over. That can be a BIG factor.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I liked my Lee Classic Turret very much and had no trouble keeping up with my ammo needs with it.
However, like the OP, my shoulder did not appreciate the 400 pulls of the lever to produce 100 rounds.
My first reaction was to look at the Dillons. I did not want to have to manually rotate like the 550 does. Too much like another shoulder movement. Looking at the 650, the cost of the change over items for only six handgun calibers would have more than eclipsed the initial cost of the machine.
The Hornady LnL seemed to fill all my needs at a reasonable price.
The LnL was what I ended up with and I am completely happy. I an not very mechanically inclined but have not had to contact Hornady a single time in getting it set up and producing maybe 5000 rounds in 45 ACP and 38 Super, so far.
I shoot about 300/500 rounds per month and just like to refill what I have shot within a few days. I can do that easily with the LnL and change calibers very quickly (and economically), if needed.
If I really needed a lot of cartridges at a time I think the 650 with the case and bullet feeder would be the appropriate one. But I don't.

The LNL AP's bullet and case feeders cost less...

I finally went with the Dillon 650 for the same reason. I reload what I shoot but I shoot 1000-1200 rounds a week. My usual routine is to go to the range in the morning, shoot my normal 200 rounds and then reload that amount right after lunch. I don't have a bullet feeder (they don't offer that on a 650 so I would have to adapt a LNL type feeder, not a big deal but I like the separate seat and crimp dies so the only way I could do that would be to eliminate the powder check station and I won't do that either). I usually don't reload on the weekends so I double up on Mondays to cover the weekend competitions. Contrary to other opinions expressed elsewhere, I have had no serious malfunctions with my 650 (I have to admit that there have been operator errors a few times). To me the choice on which machine to use boils down to how much you shoot per week and how much time you want to spend pulling a handle.

__________________
Minimize the variables

I went with the XL650 but not the case feeder. I also only bought Dillon die sets for the two calibers I shoot most and will use my RCBS dies for the rest. But I did get Dillon seating dies for those cartridges and will use my RCBS seating dies minus their seating stems for crimping.

Thanks for all the input! It made my choice much easier.

Ed

You bought a fine piece of gear and I expect pics when she's up and running!!!

PRice them the same, the 650 is about $50 more than the LNL & IMO< quite a bit better press. You can search, lots of thoughts on this, but the proiming system is better as the case feeder.
Now all of us don;t need a progressive. The point you make about pulling the handle is a valid one though. Even if yo udon't care about the 700-800rds/hr the 650 will produce, without the bullet feeder, the idea of pulling the handle once instead of 4x to produce a round would be beneficial on it's own.
I like the RCBS but not the priming strips. If you must have auto indexing, the LNL is not a bad press, as long as you don't want the case feeder. IMO, do NOT even consider a LEE, but many like the cheap price & since it is not a press built for speed, the progressive action is still a benefit, if not one that will likely require much tinkering. BTW, I don't know anyone that has loaded on both the LNL & 650, w/ case feeder, & prefer the LNL.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Well, the XL650 arrived yesterday but I was in Boston and didn't get a chance to unpack it until tonight. I had my son help out with the setup and I'm glad I did; for him to try using this thing cold turkey would be impossible as you really have to understand how it works to use it without problems. The three hours he spent helping me assemble and adjust it was invaluable from a learning standpoint.

Setup is challenging, there's no other way to describe it, but once you get it working, you can really pump out ammo even without the case feeder. Taking my time, I loaded 100 rounds of .38 Super in about a half-hour. Those 110 strokes of the handle would only have resized and deprimed those 100 cases on my RockChucker Supreme.

It's the kind of loader on which you want to load a lot of the same recipe as caliber changes are involved. They aren't hateful but there are roughly five changes and readjustments required and if the primer size differs, as mine will going from .38 Super to .45ACP, I can see it taking 15 minutes or so. Fortunately, adjustments are easy to make.

Overall, the darned thing is a really well-designed machine that operates very smoothly and with little effort. I can honestly say that I'm glad I bought it. As I become more familiar with it and make changes a few times, it will be even more enjoyable to use.

Ed

Chris, regarding your earlier post, I was in the Boston area on Tuesday and never thought to contact you.

I haven't had powder spill from any cases as they progress through the loading cycle. However, I'm only loading handgun cartridges and 4.6 grains of TiteGroup doesn't come close to filling a .38 Super case. But my loader doesn't seem to jar or shake the cases as it rotates like what I've seen in videos - perhaps they changed something?

I didn't buy additional tool heads and so far think I made the right decision. Changing and adjusting three dies doesn't seem to be any more work than removing, reinstalling and readjusting the powder measure and low powder alarm.

I have been loading and rotating 200 rounds each of .38 Super and .45ACP cases and have 300 more rounds of new .45ACP brass. I just ordered 300 rounds of new .38 Super brass along with a half-dozen more 50-round plastic boxes for each cartridge so I can have 500 rounds of each loaded. I don't want to go through the cartridge changeover to load just 100 or 200 rounds so I think I'll be loading in 500-round batches from here on.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice.

Ed

Taken from another forum:

Hornady LocknLoad V/S Dillon 650, opinions? - The Firing Line Forums

I have posted this before and I hesitate to do so now. This topic always starts a ruckus. It is important to note that BOTH SYSTEMS ARE EXCELLENT! But, they operate differently. You need to choose the press that matches your style. Good Luck!

Which is Better? What’s best?

This question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on the Dillon SDB, 550, 650, 1050 and the Hornady LNL.
I currently own a Hornady LNL and a Dillon SDB.

Here is my perspective:

Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.

The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. Dillon presses are EXCEPTIONAL and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady LNL is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the LNL and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the LNL and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the LNL. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. I can also unequivocally state, based on my experience, that HORNADY has equal customer service. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!!

IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It is sliding bar type measure. It meters ball type powder well but, flake type powder less so. Extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures, irregardless of design. Be advised that flake powder has been known to “leak” around the Dillon sliding bar as it is activated back and forth. Particularly if the sliding bar is worn. The LNL powder measure is a rotary barrel design that handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. A rotary barrel is the same design used by RCBS, Sinclair and other manufacturers. I have never heard of a rotary type measure “leak”. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. I have never heard of a LNL owner that has more than one powder measure. There is no need. It is easy to adjust. Many LNL owners, myself included, own several "Powder Dies" that are pre-adjusted to load a specific case. (Note: Powder measure fits into the Powder Die.) Each LNL powder die costs about $20. A Dillon powder measure costs $75.

Also, IMHO, the Dillon de-priming/priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON de-priming system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. With the Hornady LNL, spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although, I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder. Please note that neither Dillon or LNL primer systems will work flawlessly unless they are adjusted properly. Users of BOTH systems have expressed exasperation with these adjustments.

If you want a “Powder Check” system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and Dillon 550 both have 4 die stations. The LNL and Dillon 650 both have 5 stations. However, the 650 costs significantly more than the LNL. The Dillon 1050 is really an industrial machine and has eight stations.

How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!), many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. However, with a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady LNL, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550, is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto.

In addition, the LNL auto indexing is significantly smoother than the Dillon 650. The LNL indexes 1/2 step while the ram is going up and 1/2 step when the ram goes down. The 650 indexes a full step on the ram down stroke and can cause pistol cases to spill SMALL AMOUNTS or powder with the indexing "bump". IMHO, the LNL is dramatically better. Of course, the amount of powder "bumped" from a case is dependent on the powder charge, operator and, speed of reloading. As I stated above, you get primer problems with a dirty press. "Bumped" powder fouls BOTH Dillon and LNL.

Next, the LNL uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies and powder measure to the press. It makes changing calibers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate that has the powder measure and all loading dies installed. The Dillon die plate costs more than LNL bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the LNL!

Additionally, the LNL seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rock Chucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the LNL is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the LNL is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the LNL would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.

There is one piece that can get damaged on the LNL. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. Also, recently Hornady sends these out as a warranty item free of charge. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. The spring is durable if it is not abused. I have been using my current retainer spring for about 2 years. I have loaded at least 12,000 rounds in that time. With the Dillon you have to remove small individual brass pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate. My fingers require needle-nose pliers or forceps to remove the brass pins. It is a PITA.

(For the next discussion keep in mind that BOTH DILLON AND LNL shell plates rotate CLOCKWISE.)

Another item to think about. For NON-CASE FEEDER users; all Dillon presses (Except 1050) require you to use BOTH hands to insert brass and bullets on the press. The Dillon 650, 550 and, SDB operates as follows;

1. Right hand inserts an empty case at the right, front side of the press.
2. Left hand then sets the bullet on the case mouth at the left, rear side of the press.
3. Right hand then activates the operating handle.
4. For Dillon 550 only, Left hand manually rotates shell plate.
5. You then release the operating handle and insert another case with your right hand and so forth. (Right, left, right, left, right, left)

(Note: With the Dillon 550 you also have to manually rotate the shell plate at step 4. Most people do this with their LEFT hand.)

With the Dillon, “right-left-right-left” hand operating procedure, clockwise rotation and, the fact that you start your loading process at the front, right side of the press, your bullet seating die is at the rear, left side of the press. Why is this important? The Dillon powder measure drops powder into the case and the case is rotated clockwise to the REAR of the press to the bullet seating die. It is very difficult to see inside of the case to see the gunpowder. Many Dillon owners rig up flashlight, mirror or, believe it or not, a video camera to “look” into the case to see the powder charge.

With the LNL you start your loading process at the REAR, left side of the press. As your case rotates clockwise, after the powder is dropped, your case is directly in the front of the press and the bullet is seated directly in front of the person operating the press. Is is VERY EASY to look directly into the case to see the powder charge. Even though I use a “Powder Check” die. I look directly into each case as I am loading. I have never had a squib load OR a double charge. This is not to say that it can’t happen. It can. I just haven’t experienced one.

Loading cases and bullets with the left hand is very natural to me. Others may really dislike this feature and prefer the right/left/right/left/right operation of Dillon. Please note that a case feeder eliminates this operation and both Dillon and LNL only load bullets on the left side of the press. Dillon at the back of the press and LNL at the front of the press.

Dillon Customer service is legendary. You can buy a used Dillon press that is a total wreak and they will rebuild or send you a new one for about $40-$50 bucks. Any parts you break will be replaced free of charge. Hornady service, in my experience, is equal. When I needed some replacement springs that broke do to age, Hornady replaced them free of charge. They will also rebuild your press if it needs it. I think most other manufacturers are matching Dillon’s service. Dillon raised the bar pretty high for customer service and other companies see how devoted customers are to the BLUE presses. I do feel that is one of the primary reasons Dillon’s prices are HIGH. But of course, I have no way of knowing that.

You can load anything on both the Dillon and LNL from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the LNL, I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.

In summary, the Hornady LNL has all the features of the Dillon 650 but, is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper than the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the LNL is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the LNL and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my LNL and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

Sailormilan2,

A very nice explanation of the Hornady and Dillon presses.

I just installed a Hornady Case Activate Powder Measure on my Dillon 550.

I also have a Dillon Square D and a Hornady LNL-AP.

They all can get the job done VERY WELL thank you.

Different machines have different quirks at times and also need CLEANING AND MAINTENANCE to keep them in top shape.

GOOD LOADING AND SHOOTING FOLKS, AT LEAST WE CAN BECAUSE WE LOAD.

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Sailormilan2, thanks for the info and link. I also found this pdf comparing Dillon-Lee-Hornady.
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf Edit: Sorry, I see that TAROMAN posted this link.

While components are tight I'm taking the time do do my research on which press. Although most places indicate Dillion is the way to go, after reading here and the linked pdf, I think I need to check out the Hornady again.

Thanks for the input.

Dave

Dave:

I had the Lock-N-Load AP Ammo Plant for several years and on a whim bought a Dillon 650 3 weeks ago just to see what all the fuss was about. In every measurable way the 650 is a better machine than the LNL AP. So much so I just dropped my LNL AP at FedEx for a lucky reloader in New York. It is not *that* much more expensive if you buy a casefeeder (which I have on both my LNL AP and 650.) For the same level of flexibility, caliber changes on the 650 are much more expensive (~$100 vs $30.)

The case feeder is flawless on the 650, there are more caliber-specific parts that keep a tighter grip on the case through the cycle versus the LNL AP. When really loading full speed on the Hornady, cases tend to wobble out of alignment especially with tall cases like 44MAG and .223. The case retention spring on the LNL AP is nice due to its ease of taking cases in and out but allows a lot more wobble in the cases as they cycle through the system. I much prefer the 650 system which still allows you to remove cases fairly easily.

I use a photo to illustrate how much superior (smoother and easier to prime) the priming mechanism is on the Dillon vs the Hornady. The Hornady primer seater is on the left and the Dillon is in the middle.



I think I may like the Hornady powder drop more than the Dillon, but I am not sure yet. Neither do well with large flake powder and do passably well with small flake like Unique. Varget is always strange in the Hornady drop as it has to cut the sticks in half during dispensing.

There are two downsides to the Dillon:
1. The spent primer cup is far inferior to the design of the Hornady, luckily the fix is fairly easy.



2. People tend to overtighen the shell plate screw and the shell plate "snaps" into place flinging some powder out of the case. Usually much less than 0.1 of a grain, but it happens. I fix this by placing a bullet in the case before it snaps in place. I am going to try to install my Hornady bullet feeder this weekend so I will need to develop a new fix.

Overall both presses are very good, but the Dillon is smoother operating and as a result faster and more enjoyable to use. The Dillon is just much more precise with more caliber-specific parts than the Hornady.

Chris

+1 on Sailormilan2's post. I am one of few that has owned both the 650 and the LNL AP and agree with the majority of his post. I found the LNL to be a smoother running machine for the reasons he stated. In particular I liked the priming system and powder measure far more than the Dillon. The Dillon is a great machine; and we are arguing nuances here, but I think the Hornady is simply a cleaner design. Either press is excellent, and for the most part I try not to engage in these discussions as folks tend to get heated up. However, when my good friend asked me what press to get I told him the Hornady.

ETA- I only load pistol cartridges on my press (45, 44, 357, 10mm). I have the casefeeder on both the Dillon and Hornady. Not sure what to make of *chris*'s post as his experience contradicts mine. Perhaps I have a really good Hornady and had a bad Dillon; and vice versa.

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Mark

Thanks, Chris! A picture is worth a thousand words.

I was leaning more toward a 550 Dillon, mostly since this will be my first press. May well be my last. I just thought the set up might be more of a challenge on the 650 since I don't have anyone near by that reloads or owns a Dillon.

I have read of people using the Hornady powder drop on the Dillon.

I appreciate the input.

Dave

No way, buy the LNL AP before you drop down to a 4 station turret press like the 550. Although people are firmly on both sides of the aisle, I strongly feel an auto indexing press like the 650 or LNL AP is the ideal press for the beginner since once all the stations are individually setup, it runs pretty automatically.

You don't need someone local, with photos there are enough experts here to help you through any issue. Plus Customer Service at both Hornady and Dillon is excellent.

If auto-indexing concerns you, buy a single stage press to start like the Hornady Classic:

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Reloading :: Metallic Reloading :: Presses and Kits :: Lock-N-Load Classic :: Lock-N-Load® Classic Loader

You are going to need one of those anyway to resize rifle brass before you load it on the AP press of your choice. Mine sits right next to my 650!

Chris

You can run the 5 station presses with one case at a time until you become really comfortable with it.

Then you can add another case and continue on LEARNING.

Due to forces on the shellplate, it will make the most accurately loaded ammo when all 4/5 stages are operating together.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I am enjoying this conversation. I own a 650 and am ecstatic with it but it was by chance, not by choice. When I decided to start reloading, I went with the brand my local range/gun shop carries.

The ultimate comment would be from the guy who owns a 650, an LnL AP and an RCBS Pro 2000!

I'm enjoying it myself, blujax01.

Moonman, I've gotten that advice before and it does make me think about the 650. I know someone that has one unused that may be for sale this year, just don't know if I want to wait. The guy has been reloading precision rifle for decades on a single stage and bought the Dillon on a whim. He decided it's too complicated.

Chris, I thought I'd get a single stage to use with a collet bullet puller. I gave up rifles when I was discharged in 1968.

Dave

I use Dillon's. I have a 550 for Rifle and low volume handgun ammo. And 2 650's one for large primers set up for .45ACP, one for small primers set up for 9mm or .38 Special currently loading .38 Special. I share a case feeder between the 650's depending on which one I'm loading on.
I use a old RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press for developing loads. I have had no problems with the Dillon presses that weren't easily diagnosed and fixed. 99.9% of time the Dillon's have operated perfectly.
That said get whichever one you like. I would advise to get one with a lifetime guaranty Dillon or Hornady both have great customer service.

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Carl NRA Endowment Life Member

Four months ago, I bought a DILLON XL650 with the case feeder. Best shooting/gun money I ever spent! I've been re-loading for over 35 years and I'm sorry I did not go "progressive" a lot sooner! Fantastic machine for keeping my Model 29s and 1911s fed!

Chevy vs Ford AGAIN!

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO