I'm curious if anyone else has loaded 38 spl using SR7625. Because my current load features about as much recoil as a 22LR and I am really questioning the single source of load data that I've been able to find. That originates at IMR and the recommendation for a 125 grain jacketed bullet is a starting point of 4.5 grains and a Max of 5.1 grains. Right now I'm loading with 4.8 grains and the reduction in muzzle flip and recoil has me questioning if I'm even getting 600 fps out of this charge.

Note; I've observed with the 40 S&W and 45 ACP that SR7625 seems to offer reduced recoil and muzzle flip while still producing velocities in line with the loading recommendation. For example one load at 5.4 grains I've chronographed has a 180 grain plated bullet traveling at an average of 960 fps. In direct comparison of this particular load with the Federal Champion the reduction in muzzle flip is quite apparent. However these 38 spl loads are so soft shooting that I'm concerned about squibbing the barrel. What I really should do is get out the chronograph and do some testing, however the nearest outdoor range where I can chronograph my loads is a 35 mile drive. I'm hoping that someone else has already done the work and can provide some reassurance.

The good news is the accuracy is superb. Got my 67 and 620 out to check the sighting with these lighter bullets and if I "cheated" and used readers instead of range glasses I was able to shoot the 67 into one single hole at 15 yards. Got a bit lucky and found that all the 67 needed was a 1/2 turn on the rear sight to put the POI dead center on the top of the sights. Actually made it a bit of fun having the gun sighted this perfectly because I could then use the previous impact as the aim point for the next shot. At one point I strung 5 shots into one 1/2 inch diameter hole. Yeah, it was off a bench but it's still rather fun to have a firearm sighted so perfectly that this can be done if you really concentrate. As for the 620, the reflex sight on that still needs a bit of tuning to get it this close.

Looking in my old manuals shows that load using a 140 gr bullet @600-700 fps,but nothing for the 125 gr.

Scooter ---it does sound like fun --if I can find some SR7625 ---I'll try it in the M67 I just got.

__________________
I'd like to agree with you BUT

I recently acquired some SR 7625 and have been working up some loads.

In my model 14 I tried the starting load of 4.5 grains behind a 158 grain rainier bullet. Ten loads were fired and they felt very light compared to my normal load of 5 grains of Unique. when I shot round number eleven the recoil was soft and there was no hole in the target.

There was a bullet stuck in the barrel about one inch from the end of the muzzle.

So I tried the load of 4.7 listed as a plus-p load. While still a soft load all bullets exited the barrel. I worked up to 5.2 grains in 38 cases in a .357.
The loads felt good at 4.9 and 5 grains but these are above maximum listed loads and were not fired in a 38.

Using a four inch .357 with the 4.5 grain load I stuck two more bullets in the barrel. This is an unsafe load in the 38! These were all hand weighed placed in a tray and rechecked before bullets were seated.

The 125 grain bullet load at 5.2 grains felt softer than my normal load of 4.5 grains of Bullseye. All the 125 grain bullets did exit the barrel.

Loads of 5.5 and 6 grains were loaded into .357 cases with the 158 grain Rainier bullet. These loads were ok.

At this point I will not use this powder in a 38 unless I can verify velocity over a chronograph. I feel the velocities are much lower than the data listings. It takes more of this powder to launch a bullet and it definitely has a different feel as far as felt recoil.

Bruce

Note this is the first time I have ever had a bullet stuck in a barrel!

I have used 7625 before in the 9MM and the .32swl. It produces a very clean loading in the .32.with zero unburned powder residue.

I finally got around to loading some 9MM today. My RCBS powder measure has been set on 4.5 grains of Bullseye for years.

I pour in the 7625 and settled the powder and checked the weight. It was dispensing 4.5 grains exactly!

I reset to 5 grains and start loading. This powder meters even better then BE and all thrown charges were on the money at five grains.

Ok how did I decide on five grains? I took a Beretta 92 and some hand weighed charges of 4.5-4.7-4.9 grains behind a 115 grain Rainier bullet.

The 4.5 grain load would not cycle the action. Cycling was better at 4.9 but still lighter than a 4.5 grain load of BE.

Ken Waters Pet loads and Sierra list loads up to 5.2 grains. This powder needs to be loaded near the top.

Now a little different take on the 45 acp. I try not to load full power, it just takes the fun out of target practice.

All these loads were tested in a 945. My normal plinking load would be 4.5 grains of BE behind either bullet.

Using both 230 grain Berrys and 185 grain Rainier I started at 5 grains of 7625.

While the 230 grain bullet at five grains cycled the action the 185 grain load did not.

At 5.5 grains the 945 was still a single shot and finally at six grains the casing was ejected.

I still don't feel the same recoil pulse as when I'm using Bullseye or Unique.

I went up to 6.5 grains of 7625 with both bullets. At 6.5 grains the 230 fmj is starting to feel like a full power load.

Six grains will be enough for that bullet. I'm thinking 6.2 for the 185 grainer as that should function all my .45's.

Obviously the load data for that bullet goes even higher. I'm only trying to hit the bullseye and save a little powder.

That's all I have. Most of my data was taken from the Hodgden website and a few loads from my manuals.

There is a starting load of 4.5 grains for the .357 and a 158 grain bullet. I wouldn't load that one after my first test.

Most likely I will continue to use BE and Unique in the 38 until I have additional information.

Bruce

Thanks for the heads up.... I made notes in my manuals
just in case I try that powder.

Did notice that it is used mostly for lead in my manuals
and a lot more data in the .357 than the 38 special loads
for some odd reason in the old Speer.

It must be faster than Unique, maybe Green Dot burn rate so yes, those powder weights could be on the light side.


Good loading.

Yes it is faster than Unique but slower than Bullseye.

Since it was available, I bought eight pounds.l.

To unscientifically compare this powder to Unique and Bullseye I have come to this conclusion.

While BE smacks the bullet out of the barrel similar to a golf club hitting a ball. This powder pushes the bullet out of the barrel. similar to pushing a shuttle in shuffle board. It seems to peter out and release its pressure through the bc gap if enough bullet inertia is not reached to clear the barrel.

The pressure curve of this powder is not one which I am used to dealing with.
The bc gap may be a problem unless higher loading densities are used as the loss of peak pressure means the bullet velocity is too low.

In the 9 mm and 45 ACP it seems to work quite well.

Still I feel less recoil in those loads so there is definitely something different about the burn rate or peak pressure of this powder.


These are my observations during range testing. Unfortunately no chronograph data to add.

Bruce

I like SR7625 a LOT, it's why I have 12 pounds in my stash at this point. It's very clean shooting, low flash, and offers excellent efficiency with a moderated recoil. In the 45 ACP 5.8 grains will push a 230 grain plated bullet at 825 fps from my 5 inch SR1911 and it's accuracy is superb. With the 40 caliber 5.4 grains gives me 960 fps from the 3.9 inch barrel in my Sig Sauer P229. It's this 38 special load that has me scratching my head. The recoil is REALLY subdued when compared to either American Eagle 130 grain FMJ or a load featuring 5.7 grains of Unique. BTW, that Unique loading is a real flame thrower, folks are NOT kidding when they call Unique "Flaming Dirt".

Right now I'm working on increasing the size of a spare Lee .5cc dipper to assist in throwing a 5.0 grain charge and once there I'll load up a batch. I may also shorten the load up. The initial load was at 1.455 inch per the Lee manual but that doesn't put the crimp into the cannelure on the HSM bullets I'm loading right now. It's also 0.020 inch longer than the Unique loading which features a 1.435 inch overall length and do put the crimp into the cannelure. Then I think I'm going to have to make that drive and do some chronographing. Weather and work dependent that could be next weekend but I'll get it done sooner or later.

I use 7625 a lot and love it for most applications, but it is more position sensitive than most powders. I had wild velocity swings (+/- 100 fps) when using it in .357 mouse fart loads with 125 LFP's. It works well with heavier bullets and heavier charges.
I would use Clays, Trail Boss or Titegroup for light loads with light bullets.

Be careful that low velocities might cause a bullet to leave it's jacket in the barrel with convention jhps. Some newer bullets use better technology to bond the core to the bullet.

The bullet being used is a 125 grain plated flat point, so stripping the jacket isn't that likely. What I am more concerned about is squibbing the barrel. Ran 50 rounds of the mouse farts through the 67 and 620 and didn't have any squibs but these loads are mild enough that I'm not going to push my luck any further.

I had another 50 rounds of the 4.8 grain loads so I spent some time this evening pulling the bullets and dumping the charges back into the powder bottle. Then I resized all 50 cases without decapping the primers so I'm now ready to reload those cases with 5.0 grains of powder. I'll also re-use the pulled bullets even though that isn't exactly ideal. I checked the diameter of the pulled bullets with my micrometer and they are currently measuring 0.3572 inch. The bullets in the stock box measure at 0.3578 so there is a loss of 6 tenths on the diameter but I don't think that's going to cause any problems.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the new load over the chronograph in short order but it can be a bit difficult to predict how my weekends will lay out. Once I do have a good handle on the velocity being produced I'll have a better idea how to proceed. If the velocity is way below what can be inferred from IMR's load data I'm going to contact IMR and do my best to convince them they need to re-examine that data. If the velocity is in line with IMR's data then it's a real head scratcher how a loading with so little recoil can produce this much velocity.

BTW, IMR's data was produced using a 7.7 inch barrel, so right off the bat it's a bit of an oddball. I did some checking on velocities versus barrel lengths and between an 8 and 4 inch barrel on a revolver they found an average loss in velocity of 100 fps. Doing a bit of mathematical interpretation and using that 100 fps. correction factor for the shorter barrel indicates that a 5.0 grain load should produce a velocity of around 875 fps. with this bullet. I'm getting really curious to see what actually happens.

I can hardly stand the wait for your test results. The loads seem way to light as compared to my regular loads. I did notice flatter primers at 5 grains as compared to five grains of Unique.

It was a very slight difference. If you will, please load some with Unique so velocities can be compared during the same testing conditions.

I will not load another 38 round until you post your test results.

After sticking bullets in two guns I need more data. I think that the velocities listed are very optimistic.

Be careful of possible squibs. Take a brass rod, hammer and oil along in case you stick one in the barrel.

Hope to see results soon!

BLM

Just a further update. I pulled out some 125 grain Hornady XTP's I had in my stash and the overall length of the bullet measures at 0.539 inch. The 125 grain plated bullets I'm loading measure at 0.509 inch for length, so they are 0.030 inch shorter than the XTP. Obviously that 1.455 length recomendation that I've been using is too long for the plated bullets I'm actually loading with. So, I'm going to load up 15 or 20 5.0 grain loads to a 1.430 overall length. I'll take those along with me when I do the chronograph testing to see what effect the shorter length has on the velocity.

Where'd this come from?

No blooming idea. When I finally got around to chronographing those mouse farts I found SR7625 to be EXTREMELY position sensitive in the 38 special. Point the barrel down prior to shooting and the result with a 125 grain bullet was 400 fps. Point the barrel up prior to shooting and the result was 700 fps. Do some reading and you'll find that 400 fps with a jacketed or plated bullet is just begging for a squibbed barrel and normal practice is to load a revolver with the barrel pointing down. My current powder choice for 38 special is Vihtavouri 3N37 and I arrived at that choice after testing for postilion sensitivity with this powder. As for SR7625, still use it for my 40 S&W and 45 ACP loads where the smaller case volume minimizes the effect of it's position sensitivity. In a semi auto it provides for a very pleasant shooting low flash load with excellent accuracy and a reduced muzzle flip.

I use SR7625 and SR4756( both now discontinued for about a year,but I have a good stock of each to carry me well into the future) for all my handgun reloading. SR7625 is only used with 38special and 158gr semi-wadcutters as the longer 158 bullet minimizes the empty case volume and produces very consistent results. 4.5grs is my load for a mild target load. All other loads in 9mm,38sp,357M,40S&W,10mm,41M,44M get SR4756 as reduced loads,normal loads,full magnum loads as SR4756 fills the case better in reduced loads to prevent powder location problems and SR4756 burns cleaner than 2400 but still gives me velocities that were attainable with 2400.

I was in my LGS yesterday and low and behold, on the shelf was some SR 7625. It's like where did that come from. I passed on it but have to admit it's a real struggle not to go back and pick up some.

I use it for 9MM and it's great and meters perfectly everytime. But I have chosen to take the advice of many (including on this forum) and not use it for 38. Everybody tells me it is position sensitive and not good for .38. Plenty of other powders for 38 so I never tried it myself.