Ok boys and girls, I had a problem at the range yesterday. I am not sure if it is a reloading problem or a gun problem. I was shooting a S&W shield 9mm compact. The ammo was my own reloads of AA#2 3.4 grs. under a 124 Rainer copper jacketed flat nose bullet in Remington brass and a CCI small pistol primer. The problem, I was getting stove pipes, failure to fully seat the round on return to battery and failure to fire (on second try the round would fire). I then noticed pieces of copper plating from the nose of the bullet on the floor in front of the target. The reloading data for the 124g Rainer bullets are for the round nose 3.8 start and 4.6 max and a velocity 930 to 1055 fps. For the 124g hollow point the start load 3.3g to 4.2g and start velocity 1001 to 1110fps. and for the 124g lead round nose 3.0g to 3.8g and velocity 985-1012fps. felt recoil was less then what I am use to when I use AA#5. which I thought was good as AA#2 is known for a lighter recoil.

SO my first thought was the velocity might of been to fast and caused the plating to separate, but that does not explain the stove pipes and the failure to go to full battery or the light primer strikes. And this was only in one mag; the 7 round mag.

So any thoughts on what may be the problem. This was the first test of this load in this gun. the gun is only about a month old and the first time I shot it was with reload I developed for my Springfield Armory XD 9. of AA#5. and it ran fine, I pull about a hundred rounds threw it that day. I was going to make this a primary carry gun now I am having second thoughts.

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Carpriver.

Your load is just too light. Plated load between a lead & jacketed bullet. SO starting lead bullets loads will be better. THe shorter the slide/bbl, the stiff the recoil spring, light loads are not going to work in small 9mm.
As to plating being stripped,probably too much crimp & you are breaking the plating, it is spinning off as the bullet leaves the bbl. Pull a bullet, if you can see a ring around it at the crimp, waaaaay too much crimp.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Accurate's book 2 lists 3.7 to 4.1 for the Rainier 124 FP bullet. I'd say part of your problem is a light load. If you can get a copy of the book it's on page 92. Those little 9s have really mean recoil springs and need a good slap from the recoil to work correctly.

The failure to fire sounds like a high primer. Usually when there is a failure to fire then fire on the second strike the primer wasn't seated quite deep enough. I know, I know you've been loading for umpteen years. So have I and I still do it occasionally.

As for as the plating in front of the target there could be a couple reasons: if you're in close (say 7 yds.) you may be seeing flakes of plating that have been scrapped loose when seating the bullet. Make sure you have a chamfer on the inside of the case mouth. If you're shooting at steel you might just be seeing pieces that blasted to the ground when the bullet hit. I'm just guessing there.

I'd be real interested in what you find if you get the problem cleared.

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

My money is on too light of a load and your slide isn't cycling fully. It's throwing the timing off.

Thanks for your input. I'll increase my load and check the crimp.
I was using the Accurate load data from their website. and I make sure the primers are set to depth.

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Carpriver.

As noted previously your loads are too light. Shorter barrels in a semi typically reduce the slide overrun and as a consequence require a much stiffer recoil spring. This can made the pistol very sensitive to the energy produced in a load and not enough energy will have the same effect as "limp wristing" the handgun. Common issues due to weak ammunition are stove pipes, jammed loads partly up the feed ramp, double feeds, failure to strip bullets from the magazine, and incomplete ejection of the casing.

I've compared results comparing traditional FMJ bullets and plated bullets and I've found that plated bullets are best loaded to data given for jacketed bullets with one provision, that being that your muzzle velocity not exceed 1100-1200 fps. Personally I treat 1100 fps as the upper limit for plated bullets but Rainier actually claims their plated bullets are good to 1200 fps. BTW, that comparison indicated that in the case of Hornady FMJ and Rainier plated bullets the velocities produced in my Sig P229 was in line with the FMJ data and both bullets produced velocities within 15 fps of each other for a charge of 5.4 grains of SR7625 with a 180 grain bullet.

I've also pulled some Rainier plated bullets when setting up my crimps and have found that Rainier and HSM plated bullets can take a pretty aggressive roll crimp in the 38 caliber without fracturing the plating. IMO you would have to get rather foolish to taper crimp a bullet severely enough to damage the plating. Basically I think that you would have to taper crimp enough so that the casing won't headspace properly in a plunk test or with a case gage. If you run a taper crimp that is 0.003 to 0.004 inch smaller than the size diameter of the case you'll barely leave a visible ring on the bullet and never come close to fracturing the plating on a quality bullet.

So, what is left as a potential cause for that copper you observed? IMO there are two possible cause. One is that a prior user of that lane was shooting ammo that featured "range safe" sintered bullets. The second possible cause is that you may not have had enough flare on your cases when you pressed in the bullets. BTW, been there done that and a case without enough flare can shave copper from either FMJ or plated bullets. The best way to insure a consistent flare is to trim all your handgun cases to one single length, which can be a real pain in the tookus for a high volume shooter. The second best way is to sort your brass by length into "batches" so that you can set your flaring die for the specific length of the "batch" your loading. The third best option is to get a touch aggressive with your flaring setup and accept that you will reduce the service life of your cases. The final option is what I do, that is set up for an adequate flare for 80-90% of the cases and just set aside any cases that don't have enough flare on them when I put the bullet in place. Basically, if the bullet doesn't drop in a touch into the flare set that case to the side for a deeper flare setup.

Final thoughts. First, if you don't have a case gage for every semi or rifle caliber you load I would suggest that you consider getting some. It makes it every so much easier to check that your assembled round is within specification than having to dig out a pistol and pull the barrel for a plunk test. As for rifle calibers IMO anyone loading for a rifle is plain crazy to not have a case gage.

Considering the short barrel length in your Shield it's rather likely that you flat out won't be able to get enough velocity to damage a plated bullet. So, I believe that if you mark your ammo for Shield Only you can probably load using data in the upper half of that given for a jacketed bullet of the same weight. I point this out in the event you determine that you need to load a bit on the "hot" side to get reliable function.

I wasn't thinking of the crimp you were putting on the finished cartridge. Several years ago I loaded 300 rounds of 45 ACP without using a deburring tool to break the sharp edge from the inside of the case mouth. When I got to the range I had 300 rounds that would not chamber in the gun do to lead shaving from a sharp shouldered case. Do you have any idea how that can wear down a thumb nail when you scrap it off? I haven't left that chamfer off since. That's what I was thinking could scrape the plating. I've never seen it but what the heck sure sounds impressive, don't it?

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

Load too light for the gun and recoil spring. If a new gun, it will wear in.
PS: it wasn't the lack of chamfering that caused the lead build up, it was inadequate case mouth flare and, possibly, trying to seat and crimp simultaneously. All cases should be chamfered once, but I haven't chamfered a case in years. Also, a lack of inspection of your reloads and doing a plunk test with the barrel.

I seat/crimp in a single die and don't get any shaving if I chamfer and flare the case mouth properly. If I don't I will surely get shavings. Seating/crimping in one action has never been an issue with either jacketed or lead bullets. Just have to set the cases and die up properly.

And yes, the thumbnail will get sore in a hurry when scraping it off!

Is there a reason to have Rainer bullets as your "Load"in your Carry gun ?

Maybe I just misread your thread?

I understand what you are posting but let me say that as of now I'm using the same cases that scraped the lead, the same expander die set the same way to the same amount of case mouth bell, and the same seating die and I don't get lead scraping with the same bullets. The cases have all been loaded in excess of 20 times and still working just fine. The only change I made was to chamfer the inside of the case mouths. The plunk test would have shown me that I had a problem but all my die settings were the same for the once fired factory cases I was loading. I left off the chamfering step and paid the price. I only chamfer after I trim and I do it to all cases, auto, revolver and rifle. Makes me feel better and is what I was taught to do by people I respect.

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

I believe you did misread his thread. IMO, the OP was concerned about the reliability of his new Shield since he was having issues with it. I did not get the impression he was trying to work up plated carry rounds for his new Shield. The clue to him should have been that the prior range session when he used reloads that cycled his XD just fine also worked in his Shield...meaning it's not likely there is a problem with his Shield but rather his newest hand load he just tried.

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Stu

Well hear is the latest in my Shield reload issue. I did increase the load of AA#2, 3.7g and reduced the cramp a bit. The trip to the range was much better; no problems with the Shield. Now I have the start to a load that I can fine tune. I need to shot the gun more until I feel confident with it then I can place it into the carry rotation.

I also recently purchased a M&P 40c that I will be reloading for and using as a carry gun also. but for now I am going to spend time with the Shield. Thanks for all the input and support.

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Carpriver.