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Old 01-20-2014, 10:25 AM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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Default Do dies wear out?

I have a set of .38 spec dies that I am wondering if they are worn out. The man that gave them to me shot 400 rounds a week for years.
The reason I ask is I am using them in a Dillon reloader, the sizer,decaper,primer works fine. The powder drop and bell are fine. when it try to crimp the lead some times falls in to far like the necks are too big. It is nickel ,38 I do not know how many time it was shot, I got it from a local gunsmith. I would say it was free. I guess a better question would be when a neck is to big on a case , has the brass been used up?
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:30 AM
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Who is the maker?
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:40 AM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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YES.....They do wear out. I wore out (became oversized) 2 ea. RCBS sizer dies before going to carbide.....Problem solved.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:49 AM
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Probably not possible to wear out a carbide die, but a steel one you might. Probably more dies get damaged than worn.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:54 AM
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IMO, based on your description your brass is worn out, work hardened, and will no longer resize.
I had a bad go around with some 45acp brass purchased at a gun show. R-P was the biggest offender.
Try some brass you know the history of.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:17 AM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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they are RCBS steel dies. all the others are carbide, I would think that if they do wear out that it may be a combination of bad brass and worn die.

thanks guys.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:18 AM
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I would bet your brass is worn out especially since it is nickel. Others here will probably disagree but I will only reload Nickel brass twice and then pitch it. The Nickeled brass tends to work harden much worse than the plain brass and tends to split sooner as well.
Sorry missed your reply about your dies. Steel sizer dies will wear especially without proper lubing and if the cases are not cleaned. It would be in your best interest to pitch the dies and buy a set of Dillons dies. I have found them to be FAR superior to any other brand I have ever used. At around $55 bucks one of the best reloading investments you will ever make.
Chip King

Last edited by chipking; 01-20-2014 at 11:32 AM. Reason: added die comments
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:23 PM
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I've haven't worn out a sizing die but I have galled RCBS .38 and .44 steel sizing dies. Replaced with carbide and never had a problem since.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:39 PM
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I have been using the same set of .30-06 RCBS dies since 1980 to load many many thousands of rounds for whatever at the time needed shooting. I'm still using them. They are in excellent condition. My RCBS carbide .38/.357 dies were bought in 1981. I am now using them on my new (Christmas present) Hornady LnL AP. I have worn out priming tools by Lee. That is all.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:45 PM
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I did wear out a RCBS steel sizing die recently and had to buy a new one. It just got to where it wouldn't size cases tight enough to chamber in some of my guns. I can't gripe much about it as I bought the 38/357 die set used in the 1970s for the princely amount of $5.00 at a garage sale.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:02 PM
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What is the diameter of the bullet that is falling through? Are you flaring the case with the powder die too much? I have the die set up so my bullet will barely sit on the brass. If you are able to push the bullet down farther back out on the powder/flaring die.
As others have said it is really hard to wear out carbide dies especially if you have used clean brass. If your adjustments are in spec and your bullets are not undersized then I would bet on overworked and worn out nickel brass. Before you do anything buy some new brass and run some through. If it is better then you know its the brass. If it is the same you are out on your adjustments. This is of course with the proper sized bullets, 357/358. Good luck.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:35 PM
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if they are damaged or worn out..rcbs will replace for free...why buy when you don't have to?
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:04 PM
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Default grit...

Allowing grit to get into your dies accelerates wear.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:42 PM
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Never wore one out. I loaded more than a 100lb of 4831 in 25-06s and loaded them all with one set of dies. Still have the dies here.. I did get a nice new set of Reddings with the micrometer seater though.. Wore out a few shotshell loaders loading for our pigeon shootin business...all those years ago. Loaded more than a million rounds over the years just for pigeons. We averaged more than 2000 rounds a week over 14 yrs. A Mec loader would last about 20 weeks. When i got the first P-W loader. I would load 80-90 thousand and then sell it and get a new one. The sizing dies were fine. They were heat treated like metallic dies. In 1998 I got the first P-W 12 ga loader I had bought on a trade. Other than the plastic sleeves needing replacement the sizing dies were still good. 2 serious trap shooters and others had the machine over the years so it had many many thousands loaded on it.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:49 PM
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From your description I think that you have the setup for your flaring die wrong. You only need to flare your cases just enough to allow the bullet to just barely start in the case. As a rule of thumb I set my flaring die so that the rear of the bullet will only go into the case about 1/16 inch. If you are using something like the RCBS flaring die this means that you DO NOT run the flare down so far the bullet sits fully engaged in the case, because doing that will totally remove any neck tension and cause the crimping issues you've described.

BTW, as noted by others I am also not a fan of Nickel plated cases, they just don't last for nearly as many reloads as brass finished cases. However for the first 4 or 5 load cycles you should see them size and flare normally without any issues with the necks splitting.

Last edited by scooter123; 01-21-2014 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:45 PM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyB View Post
I've haven't worn out a sizing die but I have galled RCBS .38 and .44 steel sizing dies. Replaced with carbide and never had a problem since.

I have to ask what does galled a die mean?
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:04 PM
varmint243 varmint243 is offline
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It happens when you don't have enough lube between two materials such as brass and steel and the metals actually touch each other.
Metal is actually very grainy and a little porous and they get intertwined.
The brass embeds itself into the steel.
You have actually have to polish away metal to get rid of it.
Aluminum and steel are terrible for this.

Lubricant fills the grain and pores of the metals and prevents them from touching each other. Each rides on the film of lube.

Metals like carbide are very tight grained and resist galling to brass.

someone will come along that can expain it a little better, I suspect.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:07 PM
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When is the last time you cleaned your dies? I have found after many loaded cases that cleaning them helps. I have an ultrasonic cleaner for brass and steel. I just throw all the dies in after reloading apx. 500 rounds. It cleans them like new. If you load a lot of lead bullets you can get a buildup. This cleaning takes it out.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:12 PM
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Clean your dies, adjust so the bullet just gets in the case and then use non-nickle brass to see if all is well.

Galling is caused by dry metal rubbing on dry metal. It needs lube.

It is very important to use clean cases. Crud, even in lube, will cause wear.

From my car mania days I specifically remember that plating metal causes early failure of the plated item.

Here one is plating brass, good for looks and good for a few reloads. Over the years I've noticed that plated brass seems to crack at the neck sooner.

I only neck size for center fire rifle with a bolt, lucky for me all 3 of my pre-64 Mod 70 Winchesters in 270 WCF can use the same reloads with out head space issues.

Pistol rounds generally need full length resizing, it is how you neck them that causes case failure. Also be careful on how you clean the primer pocket so as not to enlarge it.

I only use nickle plated for hunting, not plinking. I also mark cases and the box with a magic marker. Load #1, Load #2, componets, powder and amount and date etc.

Clean them up, adjust it and if it fails Kennyb has the right idea.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:58 PM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlay View Post
What is the diameter of the bullet that is falling through? Are you flaring the case with the powder die too much? I have the die set up so my bullet will barely sit on the brass. If you are able to push the bullet down farther back out on the powder/flaring die.
As others have said it is really hard to wear out carbide dies especially if you have used clean brass. If your adjustments are in spec and your bullets are not undersized then I would bet on overworked and worn out nickel brass. Before you do anything buy some new brass and run some through. If it is better then you know its the brass. If it is the same you are out on your adjustments. This is of course with the proper sized bullets, 357/358. Good luck.

It is not a carbide die its a old steel rcbs, The bullets are from CB Bullets in Maine I have used them many times with out issue. I guess the problem is the nickel brass. Many had split
lips, and no I do not bell to much a fraction just to clear the lead, and thats it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:05 PM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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You guys are the best thank you. I learn something everyday here. I will clean up everything, I did not know brass needed to be cleaned I thought it was a vanity thing. From now on.
And my problems likely come from the box of empty nickel brass I got. Guy probably shot the **** out of it then sold it to the gun smith .I think. I will just buy new and keep records. Although it can be mighty hard to find brass these days.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:02 PM
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38 brass is out there
I just bought and resold 1500pcs/$80 of 38 brass because there weren't enough matched headstamps in the lot to suite me.
They guy that got it from me was happy with it.
(I did tell him why I was reselling it)
There is a cast boolit forum somewhere where pistol/revolver brass changes hands all the time.

add to that - you could probably even sell your worn out brass there, fully described as such.
Those guys do some crazy things :-)

Last edited by varmint243; 01-21-2014 at 06:05 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:08 PM
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Varmint243 is right, brass is out there if you do a bit of looking. One of my most consistent sources for brass is the local gun shows. They come to my area once a month just like clockwork and there are almost always vendors present selling once fired brass that has been cleaned. Last Friday I got really lucky and came home with 200 357 Magnum cases and 3 pounds of Accurate #5. Also saw a 4 inch 28-2 that barely had any wear showing for 600 dollars but had to pass on that because my Fun Fund is a bit short.

One thing that did have me scratching my head a bit was the ammo vendors are still asking outrageous prices. Come on guy's, 35 dollars for a 50 count box of American Eagle 9mm is just too much. It seems that everyone I saw at the show felt the same way because I didn't see one single box of ammunition changing hands in the hour that I was wandering around.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epj View Post
Probably not possible to wear out a carbide die, but a steel one you might. Probably more dies get damaged than worn.
What he said.
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