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Old 01-30-2014, 10:05 PM
cpatbay cpatbay is offline
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Default Loading for Hard Cast bullets with Gas Check

I just got a few boxes of .357 180 gr hard cast bullets with gas check from Rim Rock Bullets. Do I use the loading data for jacketed or lead bullets in my Lyman Reloading Manual? Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:14 PM
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lead. lead.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:22 PM
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There is no data for 180 grain bullet in the lyman 47th manual. Richard Lee second edition has some info.

David
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:37 PM
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You are correct. Lyman doesn't have data for 180 gr lead bullet. Could someone extract from their manual the reloading data for 2400 with this bullet? Thanks.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:34 AM
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I would use jacketed data but start low.
Somewhere before max you will find the most accurate one
assuming the bullet diameter matches the cylinder throats and bore.

The most accurate 44 mag load I have ever shot is 18-19 grains of 2400
(depending on which brand case is used) under a 260 grain WFNGC.
This is shot in a 7.5" Redhawk and is very close to the max listed for copper bullets.
The lead bullet has a little less friction in the barrel which lowers pressure some.
The gas check makes it all happy at higher pressure than lead alone will stand.
Some believe the LBT WFNGC bullet to be the ultimate hunting bullet.
Especially in big-bores (44 and up).

Loads for that bullet with 2400 seem to be scarce.
The Hornady manual lists as max 12.6 grains of 2400 with their 180 grain XTP
The Sierra manual lists 11.5 grains of 2400 as max under their 180 gr. FPJ Match.
An old Speer book lists 12.3 as max under a 180 FMJ.

The starting load is 10 grains. Go up a half grain at a time. I would not go above 12.
I'd bet your accuracy load will be right around 11 grains.

===
Nemo

Last edited by Nemo288; 01-31-2014 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:16 AM
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I will ask Mr Lee tonight and post the results. There are a lot of loads for a 180 in 357.

David
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:45 AM
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These are from my M.D. Smith records. WAP is Winchester Action Pistol, supplanted by Ramshot Silhouette.

38 Special
180 grain LEAD (Truncated Cone) Flat Point
(Cowboy loads - shot in 7 1/2" bbl.revolver - no need to reduce)
VV N320 3.2 gr. 722 fps
hi=780 lo=674 ES=105(powder up and down)
WAP 4.3 gr. 773 fps *
hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down)
WAP 4.0 gr. 639 fps *
hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down)
AA No.2 3.6 gr. 816 fps
hi=857 lo=785 ES=72 (all shot level)
AA No.2 3.2 gr. 722 fps
hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down)
AA No.5 5.0 gr. 725 fps
hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down)
AA #5 5.0 gr. 781 fps, hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14" bbl
AA No. 5 4.6 gr. 690 fps
hi=736 lo=647 ES=89 (powder up and down)
*WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent.

357 Magnum:
180 grain Lead + Gas Check
ZIP 5.6 gr. 1,042
ZIP 6.2 gr. 1,158 max
Lil'Gun 15.2 gr. 1,188 max
True Blue 7.6 gr. 1,046
True Blue 8.4 gr. 1,162 max

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:35 AM
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I use jacketed data for 180gr GC's.

I'll have to check but IIRC the last batch I loaded is with 14gr of W296. They shoot very well in my Ruger Blackhawk and GP-100.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:59 PM
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What powder do you have?
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:11 PM
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I am using Alliant 2400 for my 357 Mag loads.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:27 PM
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Lee Modern Reloading
Second Edition
180 grain Jacketed bullet
2400 Starting load 11.8 1228 fps
MAX load 12.5 1300 fps.

200 gr Lead bullet
2400 Starting load 9.4 1176 fps
MAX load 10.0 1245 fps

David

Edit am I braking any rules here?

Last edited by David R; 01-31-2014 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:44 PM
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David, thanks! Is there a loading for 180 gr lead?
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpatbay View Post
David, thanks! Is there a loading for 180 gr lead?
Nope, Sorry.

I checked the old Hercules Reloaders' Guide too. Exact same results.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:36 AM
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The Lyman Cast Bullet manual is the one you need for shooting lead bullets it lists a 180 gr bullet

2400 starts at 11.1 and a max of 12.3 grains
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
The Lyman Cast Bullet manual is the one you need for shooting lead bullets it lists a 180 gr bullet

2400 starts at 11.1 and a max of 12.3 grains
Great! Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2014, 06:30 AM
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Thank you Rule3, I have a 1958 Handbook of cast bullets that only shows up to 165 grain. And a 1973 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook that shows a 195 grain. Nothing about a 180.

cpatbay do you have a chrony?
Have fun with those 180s
David
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:12 PM
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David,

Yes, I have a chrony. Will check out the loadings.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:04 AM
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Lead slugs will achieve equal velocities at lower pressures - which is one reason hard cast is favored over jacketed for big-bore, big-game loads where terminal slap could mean the difference between a trophy on the wall, or recovering in a hospital missing most of one's scalp and face.
What this means is you can safely load lead slugs using jacketed data for bullets of equal weight.

Jacketed bullets have a higher initial pressure spike and higher bore friction which places greater stress on the gun. Lead bullets will pressure spike as the bullet passes into the forcing cone but once "swaged" into the bore, slide along like they're greased...because LEAD is an excellent "lubricant" (the reason it used to be in gasoline to lubricate valve seats).
For this reason lead slugs are also LESS likely to get stuck in a barrel and if they do, EASIER to hammer out...

Last edited by Kilibreaux; 02-03-2014 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:18 AM
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Default Loads for .357/180Grains lead GC

I have just tried to find out what my computer program "Quick Load" says. It is a little on the conservative side, but it is a great help to find out safe loadings. You can add more powder later - if you wish. Here is what I found:

.357 RCBS bullet 179 - FV GC 180 Grs.SIL
MAX 11,2 Grains Alliant 2400 = 42695psi / 1318fps

same bullet
Vitavouri N 110 12,3 Grains = 43383psi / 1337fps

I also tried Haendler & Nattermann bullets HS (HighSpeed coating) which allow more powder. But as I'm not sure whether these bullets are available in the US I did not mention them.

REMEMBER - the above listed loads are MAXIMUM according tho the QuickLoad program. As you certainly know it also depends on gun and condition of same what is maximum.

I hope this could help a little.

Rainer
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