2400 load for Mod 19 Questions

Warren Sear · #51 05-06-2017, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red1

I bet Blue Dot contributed. I really dislike powder this powder for any handgun.

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).

Agreed. Blue Dot is not a powder for any magnum handgun cartridge, in my opinion. On top of that, I was using the old Speer reloading data from the '70's. Some guys, even on this board, think it is fun to use that data, but we have learned a lot about handgun loading and pressures since then. I still keep it as a reminder of what not to do. The book advised watching for "signs of pressure". The first sign was a split forcing cone. Wut up wiff that?

muddocktor · #52 05-07-2017, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

Agreed. Blue Dot is not a powder for any magnum handgun cartridge, in my opinion. On top of that, I was using the old Speer reloading data from the '70's. Some guys, even on this board, think it is fun to use that data, but we have learned a lot about handgun loading and pressures since then. I still keep it as a reminder of what not to do. The book advised watching for "signs of pressure". The first sign was a split forcing cone. Wut up wiff that?

And I will respectfully disagree with you on that. Been loading BD in 357 since the 70's and 44 Mag since the 80's with no problems. And I still have around 3 lbs left to use up that I bought when powder was so hard to find a few years ago. I do not load 125 or less grain bullets with it in 357 since Alliant came out with their warning. The main thing I don't like about BD is the fact that it meters poorly out of my Lyman 55 and my Dillon powder measures. There are other powders that meter much better that I have and can use instead and accomplish what I want. And I wasn't shooting them out of a K frame, but rather a model 27, so I had plenty for meat in the barrel at the forcing cone.

And I did some testing with BD in 9MM and it runs pretty darn good actually. But again, poor metering on my measures means that I hand weigh every charge.

ggibson511960 · #53 05-08-2017, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noshow

I wanted to thank "coldmold", a member here, for providing me with the powder bushings I was missing. I now have a complete set, thanks to his kind help. I am very happy to have posted this question on this most friendly forum. Thank you!!!!!!!!

Heartwarming to hear of coldmold's generosity. This is a friendly and helpful forum, and scrupulously moderated to keep it that way. I have been guilty of scratchy exchanges over technical trivia and promptly cautioned to tone it down.

Us old guys can come up with innovative ways around reloading problems. I didn't like a charge weight my bushing was throwing for a MEC machine. I resorted to "gentle" reaming of a smaller than required bushing to increase powder volume. Yes, I did over-stamp the bushing number to protect some hapless soul after me who trusts numbered bushings to throw correct charge weights. I even heard of a chap who decreased a bushing bore with J-B weld. Back before Internet supply chains and next day delivery of odd ball parts, people did a lot of innovation to get around problems, and most were safe.

red1 · #54 05-11-2017, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddocktor

And I will respectfully disagree with you on that. Been loading BD in 357 since the 70's and 44 Mag since the 80's with no problems. And I still have around 3 lbs left to use up that I bought when powder was so hard to find a few years ago. I do not load 125 or less grain bullets with it in 357 since Alliant came out with their warning. The main thing I don't like about BD is the fact that it meters poorly out of my Lyman 55 and my Dillon powder measures. There are other powders that meter much better that I have and can use instead and accomplish what I want. And I wasn't shooting them out of a K frame, but rather a model 27, so I had plenty for meat in the barrel at the forcing cone.

And I did some testing with BD in 9MM and it runs pretty darn good actually. But again, poor metering on my measures means that I hand weigh every charge.

Thanks for info. Blue Dot just seemed to hot and fast burn rate. 10 grains 158 JHP fired 20 second intervals heated cylinder and barrel too much for my liking.

In my Smith 459 9MM (new spring slide) 7gr. 124gr. JHP seemed to be a little hard on slide. Whereas Power Pistol 6.2gr 124gr. JHP became pretty standard load.

Blue Dot was not very accurate in either handgun even as I worked up loads. Shows each firearm is different. What works for one person's firearm does not mean it will work well for another's. I too weigh each load.
Once again thanks for input.

red1 · #55 05-11-2017, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

There are as many theories about that as there are about who killed JFK. The bottom line is that high pressure loads with bullets of 125 (or so) grains or less will damage a K frame .357 magnum, sooner or later.

I think you are correct on both observations.
Years ago loaded for deer 158gr JSP with 15.5gr 2400 and 550 primer. Backed off from 16.1 gr after very slight sticky ejection extraction. Yes was not real smart. Used only for deer, worked quite well. Checked forcing cone on Model 19 with 20x magnification today (curious after all types of 2400 loads, never 125gr. bullet) and it checked out very satisfactorily. As does timing and cylinder gap .005. I guess no damage with old data and 2400. Although no more than mid loads in later years. No need. Thanks

38SPL HV · #56 05-17-2017, 11:03 PM

My light end 357 Magnum loading with 158 gr cast uses 12.5 grs of 2400. Good 1,100 fps + in my previous 357's. My favorite 357 Mag level load is 13.5 grs and 2400 with same 158 gr cast bullet.

Ole Joe Clark · #57 05-18-2017, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jupiter01

Do tell!

Well...for those of us in similar situation, who have used that pistol measure for more than 30 years with great satisfaction; It was a sad day when they were discontinued! They do speed up charging pistol cases marvelously! I was tired of using my Lee dippers, although I still have a set that I use...not as Herr Lee suggests, but nonetheless useful.

The only competitor that Hornady-Pacific had in them days was the RCBS Little Dandy, which was, and still is, a good measure, but expen$ive!,

When I bought my Pacific, economics raised its ugly head. I think I got the measure, and maybe 4 bushings for a fraction of what the competition would have cost, and as I progressed, I was able to get more bushings. Iirc, then, they were about ~ $3 with shipping. My last one, bought 2 weeks ago, to fill a remaining hole in the lower charges, was ~$15. I probably won't buy another!

Over the years, I am happy to have filled out my collection with a new# 8 to add to my stable of 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22. That will cover all useful loads with Unique, Universal, 2400, and Trail Boss, plus any other replacements for Unique/Universal that I may want to try.

So, if the bushings won't throw to the last 1/1000gr. of my chosen loads, "Close enough is good enough", except for those of us who insist on the last gnat's nut of "consistency", or maybe who like to hang our backsides over the abyss of "Maximum" loads, they are plenty good, especially if we load on the conservative side, and have found what we envision will do the job. I don't presume that a .1 or .2 gr. variation on one side or the other of a "favorite" load will make a real world difference in either pressure, velocity or effectiveness.

But, that's just me.

If the Pacific Pistol Measure used by the OP is the one that uses the brass bushings that are 1/2" diameter x 1/2" long, there is an easy solution. Just take one of the smaller diameter bushing that is not being used and ream it out a little with a drill. It won't matter one way or the other as far as shooting is concerned. I have 2 of the Pacific measures and they are great. When I worked in the shop back in the day, I made several blank bushings and I just drill them out as needed. Because they are old (like me) doesn't mean they won't work.

hdwhit · #58 05-18-2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Lost in the Ozone wrote:
I try to stay away from the warden as she has designs on my time.

It is good for the men to marry
It will make them good husbands - - or philosophers
- - attributed to Artistotle.

hdwhit · #59 05-18-2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Average Ed wrote:
Something that always puzzles me is a poster saying he can only use a certain bushing or other measuring device because it is the only one he has. Why can't he buy more bushings? Why can't he buy a powder measure?

Sometimes the children need new shoes more than I need a powder measure.

Sometimes a new tire is more urgent than a set of bushings.

Quote:

Certainly anyone who has the financial ability to own a Smith & Wesson revolver and reload for it is able to make those purchases.

I inherited my S&W revolver from my grandmother. At the time my wife and I had less than $300 a month to live on after we paid our mortgage and utilities.

There was no money for reloading equipment.

Quote:

It troubles me to read about handloaders "settling" on a given recipe because it is the only one they have the tools or components to load.

Why? If it is a safe load using components and equipment from reputable companies and prepared according to published data would there be any cause for concern?

I started out reloading using an original Lee Loader. Over two years I loaded roughly 800 rounds of 30 Carbine with no:

case tumbler,
case trimmer,
powder scale,
powder measure, or
press.

It was just:

The one Lee die,
A hammer,
Powder dipper and
A Dixie cup.

Over the 36 years it took to use them all up, every one went bang just like they were supposed to and there were no ammunition-related failures of any kind.

When I started loading .223 Remington, the only powder I could initially get that had a recipe in the one manual I had at the time was IMR-4198. In the mid-1980's it disappeared from store shelves for some time. The only thing I could get then was WW748, so I redeveloped a load to match the performance of the IMR-4198 loadings. I shot what I had the components to load.

The bottom line is that we all do the best we can with the equipment and supplies we have and some of us, perhaps inspired by the challenge, craft some very beautiful and functional ammunition. I applaud noshow for his ingenuity in figuring out a load that would work with what he had. The fact someone was able to supply him with his missing bushing just gives me more possibilities.