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Old 02-19-2014, 10:42 PM
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Default Lead bullet lube question

Ok load station setup and lead in pot going to cast my first bullets this weekend. A lot of guys use Alox but I hear it's real sticky any better alternates?

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Old 02-19-2014, 10:45 PM
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Do you have a sizer-lubricator?
If so, you have a wide choice of lubes.
Doing it without a sizer-lubricator?
ALOX is fine, especially if you read the part about not using too much, which leaves it sticky.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 PM
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Do you have a sizer-lubricator?
If so, you have a wide choice of lubes.
Doing it without a sizer-lubricator?
ALOX is fine, especially if you read the part about not using too much, which leaves it sticky.
I have a sizer. New to this do I need lube on a progressive?

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Old 02-19-2014, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
do I need lube on a progressive?
Don't understand what you are asking.
Lead bullets need some kind of lube. Progressive???
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:06 PM
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Progressive press with case resizing die. Do I still need to lube lead bullets?


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Old 02-19-2014, 11:10 PM
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Yes ,they need lube or they will lead the barrel.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:28 PM
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Default Lubing is...

Lubing is done before the bullet sees the progressive or reloading press or whatever. A lubra-sizer does both jobs in one step.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:33 PM
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Lubing is done before the bullet sees the progressive or reloading press or whatever. A lubra-sizer does both jobs in one step.
I suppose that takes me back to my original question? preferred non sticky brand preference?

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Old 02-19-2014, 11:38 PM
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Default Lead bullet lube question

The press that lubes the bullets is a separate deal than your standard reloading press. Seeing as you mentioned a sizer die on your reloading press I am assuming it is a Lee push thru style. Seeing as you are new I would give the alox a try. It is very simple and works well as a lube. The drawbacks are it is very sticky and gums everything up. Give it a try and you will quickly learn the value of the other lube sizing methods. Without a proper lube sizer press I would look into pan lubing your bullets. Pan lubing is slow but the results are good and it won't give you sticky smelly bullets.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:43 PM
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The press that lubes the bullets is a separate deal than your standard reloading press. Seeing as you mentioned a sizer die on your reloading press I am assuming it is a Lee push thru style. Seeing as you are new I would give the alox a try. It is very simple and works well as a lube. The drawbacks are it is very sticky and gums everything up. Give it a try and you will quickly learn the value of the other lube sizing methods. Without a proper lube sizer press I would look into pan lubing your bullets. Pan lubing is slow but the results are good and it won't give you sticky smelly bullets.
I have a Hornady Lock and Load, AP still Alox?

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Old 02-20-2014, 02:10 AM
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Welshman, it appears they gave up on you. Bullets when cast are not ready to load. They are over sized and need lubed. There are many ways to bring the processes to pass. You can cast if you wish but until you figure out what these people are talking about you are not ready to load. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook explains all of this and is a great loading manual also. You are currently short of a full load on information. Ivan.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:18 AM
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There is a new to the USA coating process out.

You can Google HI-TEK bullet lube coating, or

Go to CAST BOOLITS forum for complete info.

The process has been in use in Australia by Competitive Shooters for 20 years.

It completely ENCAPSULATES THE LEAD, the coating is also the lube.

To apply you tumble lube and BAKE IN A DEDICATED CONVECTION OVEN (poison, NO FOOD BAKED AGAIN IN IT).

Bullets can be REGULAR, TUMBLE, OR NO LUBE GROOVES, it still coats and works.

No Leading.

Several US Casting companies are now making already coated bullets for sale. (Hi-TEK COATED)
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:48 AM
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HI-TEK coating work, but you've got to be able to follow the directions exactly and have excellent temperature control in the oven. My cheap convection oven worked for a while, but now gets temperature spikes and variations to the point that the coating isn't all it should be performance wise. Will have to do some upgrades for this process to replace more tradional lubes altogether.

BTW, for standard (non-magnum loads) I've found the "sticky" lubes do a better job.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:55 AM
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In case it's not been made clear, the sizing die on your press resizes the cartridge case to fit the chamber of your gun. The bullets require a separate sizing process to fit your gun's bore. This operation is commonly combined with lubrication of the bullet to prevent leading of the bore and takes place in a separate machine, hence the term, "lubri-sizer".

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Old 02-20-2014, 04:11 AM
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I was buying my leadcast bullets that are moly coated from Carolina bullets.
I no longer see them locally being sold. Now I purchased my leadcast bullets from http://www.snscasting.com. they come lubed but I purchased a spray moly that I can spray them and tumble them. I got the spray moly from Shop Shooting Supplies | Reloading | Gunsmithing | Hunting gear ? MidwayUSA

I was getting leading really bad before I tried the moly coated bullets. Now my leading is slim to none.

Last edited by BigBill; 02-20-2014 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:41 AM
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jaymoore,

Yes, You do have to follow directions to mix the HI-TEC coating.
NEWER "DRY POWDER" coatings will be coming to the USA this year,

You only add ACETONE to the product and mix. (Color and Catalyst are in the dry powder)
This is NOT to be confused with POWDER COATING projectiles.

YOUR DEDICATED CONVECTION OVEN DOES NEED TO HOLD THE CORRECT HEAT.

People have ADDED OTHER CONTROLS to their ovens,
I chose to purchase a NEW DEDICATED OVEN.

THE BREVILLE "SMART" CONVECTION OVEN MODEL BOV800XL does the job.

The Breville is $250 at BED/BATH/BEYOND.

You can presently find "HI-TEC" COATED bullets done by casting companies.

Gateway Bullets, Bayou Bullets and SNS Casting are 3 that I know of that can supply already coated bullets.

The PROCESS can be done for you, or you can choose to self coat.

This process TOTALLY ENCAPSULATES THE LEAD, which is becoming a REQUIREMENT in certain places already.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:09 AM
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THEWELSHM,

I think you need to do a BUNCH OF READING before you try to cast and load.

You need to know WHAT SIZE is your firearms BARREL GROOVE and if a revolver, THE CYLINDER SIZES.

Casting for WHAT CALIBER, different calibers have different ALLOY REQUIREMENTS?

Different lubes from ALOX, to a mix of 45% ALOX/45% Mineral Spirits/10% Johnson's Paste Wax. (this is LESS STICKY THAN STRAIGHT ALOX).

There are many different WAX LUBES available as well as COATING PROJECTILES WITH POLYMER OR POWDER COATING.

Your BULLETS NEED SIZED/LUBED THEMSELVES, your Hornady LNL-AP press will SIZE YOUR BRASS.

If your press has CARBIDE DIES some say LUBING THE BRASS IS UNNECESSARY, I lube some BRASS anyway, makes the press easier to operate.

I USE HORNADY "ONE SHOT LUBE"

Rifle Brass NEEDS TO BE LUBRICATED.

Your cast bullets CAN CHANGE SIZE with different ALLOYS and TEMPERATURES from the same mold.

GOOD LUCK BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD READ FIRST.

REMEMBER YOUR SAFETY EQUIPMENT, I WEAR SAFETY GLASSES AND A FULL FACE SHIELD, YOU ONLY HAVE 1 SET OF EYES

WEAR COTTON CLOTHING AS SYNTHETIC FIBERS "MELT" IF AN ACCIDENT WERE TO OCCUR, OR "THE TINSEL FAIRY PAYS YOU A VISIT."
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:55 AM
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The least sticky lubes are those that need a heat element to flow. Something like Magma, very hard, not sticky at all. There is a company called White Label, very good products for a very inexpensive price. Their Carnuba Red needs about 105deg to flow in a luber/sizer. When it cools, pretty non sticky.
Lots of work being done on non conventional lubes like HiTek. IMO, PITA to apply, but if it floats your boat, why not. They do offer less smoke & all wax based bullet lubes will smoke.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:08 PM
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fredj338,

I think the OP possibly only has a Lee sizer and the ALOX that came with it.

He was looking for a less sticky lube, but we're not sure he fully understands the Casting and Reloading methodology.

He has a Hornady LNL-AP Press.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:43 PM
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WELSHM-
Try reading the stickies over @ Castboolits:

From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners

They'll explain a lot

-Klaus
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEWELSHM View Post
Progressive press with case resizing die. Do I still need to lube lead bullets?





Thewelshm

Not being a jerk but please read some manuals and get a better idea what you are doing. You sound very new to reloading take your time.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:29 PM
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Backing up just a bit. Lee makes bullet sizers for use on a conventional press. Many cast bullets can be shot as cast without sizing. They do need lube. Alox and tumble lubing gives very good results....but alox does tend to build up in the bullet seating die. I find that tendency to deposit lube in the seating die tolerable . Occasionally removing the die and cleaning it helps. Coating the clean seating punch with a bit of CLP or Tri-flow goes far toward avoiding deposits. Tumble lubing with Johnson's paste wax results in less stickiness when dry compared to Liquid Alox and sometimes shoots very well....but in my LIMITED experience with the JPW it is not as good/versatile a lube as Alox.

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Old 02-20-2014, 09:12 PM
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I use a lube/sizer, a Lyman 450 I found years back at an estate sale.

I've used alox, javalina, lyman lube, etc, all the major players - but - the one I settled on, the one that works best and smokes least...

White Label BAC

LsStuff-White Label Lube - Cast Bullet Lube

Try it, you'll like it.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:46 PM
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Thanks for the info guys. Trust me I got the reloading down on 3 caliber sit was the casting part I was trying to understand. I have a lee pot and 22bhn lead. I bought 3 casts, as discussed I was enquiring if I needed Alox? Being a foreigner my terminology may throw some off (as Winston Churchill salad "two people separated by a common language") I practice excellent safety and asked the question loosely before researching my own question.i certainly hope to answer similar questions for other posters in the future. Thanks for replies.

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Old 02-20-2014, 10:09 PM
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Good luck as you move forward.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:19 PM
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As already said, lubing is necessary. I used to size and lube and go through all the rigamarow. Now I use Lee Tumble Lube bullets, which need no resizing. Then I lube with Lee liquid alox. The whole process saves me a bunch of time and my barrels have never been cleaner. As-cast bullets give me outstanding accuracy. Been doing it this way for probably 15 years - been casting for 40+ years total.

Yup, my bullet seating dies get a little sticky. 3 minutes cleaning every 200 rounds is little work compared to the old sizing and lubing chores.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:28 AM
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+1 on White Label Lubes . Quality product , fast shipping & great people to deal with . If you tumble lube their 45-45-10 is less messy sticky than Lee Liquid Alox , not to mention cheaper .
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:59 AM
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Get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, everything you wanted to know about bullet casting. Then go to this site for what Lyman left out.
Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:04 PM
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Going back to the OP's comment on Alox and it being "sticky" -

Not so if you use it correctly. Most of the problems people have with it being sticky is that they are using too much of it.

I use it all the time along with paste wax for lubing my cast bullets. I'm pretty "low tech". I've cast for 50 years - mostly over a LP single hot plate - no thermometer. I've used Lee, Lyman, Ideal and RCBS molds.

Currently, for my 38s, I cast using Lee molds for the TL (tumble lube) 158 gr SWC, the 150 gr RN - in a Lyman mold the usual WC and I even cast with an original Winchester mold that throws a RN (a little longer than the Lee 150 gr) that drops at around 160gr. IF, I size any of them - it's through a Lee .358 sizer for the 38s. The method I use is -

If I'm going to size, I put a large handful of them in a tupperware bowl, heat the bullets up with a hair dryer so they are nice and warm - once warm, I drop a "dollop" (Maybe a 1/2 tablespoon or so) of paste wax - Johnson's, Min-Wax - whatever I have on hand. The warm bullets melt the paste wax or you can blow on the wax with the hair dryer until it melts. Once melted, swirl them around so they get completely coated and then put them out on a sheet of wax paper to cool . Once cool - ready to size and the wax is enough lube to easily put them through the sizer die.

Once sized - or if I'm going to shoot them "as cast" - I then put them back in the tupperware bowl - heat 'em up good - add another dollop of paste wax and squeeze in a very small layout of the Alox - then swirl good so they get coated all over. I put them out on a sheet of wax paper - I stand them on their bases (optional) and let them dry overnight. This coats them overall but not so thick that the Alox remains "sticky" as the OP talks about. If I'm doing a large quantity and store them in sealed tupperware containers - I've never had a problem with them "sticking" together nor do they seem to crud up my dies.

This works on both the tumble lube SWC that I cast as well as the others I cast with the conventional lube groove. I pretty much use BE most of the time - 2.7 gr. for the WC and around 3.0 - 3.4 gr. for the RN and SWC (depends on what pistol I'm using - I have 7 38s/357 of barrel lengths 2", 4", 5", 6"). They shoot just fine and I have never had a problem with leading. I cast my bullets for my revolvers out of "range lead" - depending on what I have on hand. As I say, I'm pretty "low tech" so the alloy will vary depending on what I have on hand - sometimes range lead, sometimes soft lead.

I also load for 9mm - I use the Lee .356-120-TC - conventional lube groove and lube them the same way. Those I load over 3.5 gr. of BE and they function great in my SR9 - no leading problems.

I will also mention that I don't have a chronograph and I don't load "hot" - I keep 'em "mild to middlin" - so I can't say how my method of doing things would work for someone who likes to shoot 'em "hot and fast" as far as leading goes.

For me personally, the Alox/paste wax works so why get any fancier? It all depends on how much $$ you want to spend and how involved you want to get in casting, playing with alloys, lubes, etc. I enjoy casting, reloading and shooting but I learned a long time ago to keep things "simple". I'm not a competitive shooter - I shoot tin cans, some paper, some varmints on the farm, etc. - for my shooting needs, the Alox/paste wax works fine and my revolvers don't complain one bit. . . . and, I never heard any of the woodchucks I've shot complain about what lube I used! :-)

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Old 02-21-2014, 08:36 PM
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Backing up what boatbum101 said, White Label's 45/45/10 lube (you can make this yourself if you want) is great stuff. I like it a lot better than Alox. Not as sticky and I've had better results.

Delux Liquid X-Lox~45-45-10 ~~ 32 oz - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Spend some time at castboolits.gunloads.com. There are a lot of ways to go about casting and lubing. I use a Lee sizer and I tumble lube with 45/45/10. Works for me but it's not the only way.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:57 PM
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update, for the experimental purposes I bought bullet resizing dies and I am going to give the Alox a try, I may youtube the process. Although it does seem a lot cheaper to just buy the bullets I think its something most reloading enthusiasts should try. I will be casting S&W 500 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum. I will be weighing most and I':m sure some will go back in the pot I am sure many here have cast their " A" bullets and " B"? great experiment I will keep all informed, ( I'm Anal like that)

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Old 02-25-2014, 01:04 AM
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I cast 357 158 grain and 44 240 this weekend I have pics and will upload. Its definitely a knack thing. Once I got in the rhythm I cast 50 keepers of each. before going to a wedding Also tumbled some brass ( longer process than I thought but older brass) I will also run them through the sonic cleaner to add some enhancement to the inside of the shell.

Busy as heck today but have pics. Lead casting was definitely therapy.


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Old 02-25-2014, 06:18 AM
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Okay, we have completely separated (1) the whole case lubing&sizing the case steps on the loading press for your cartridge brass prep COMPLETELY out of the equation and we're (2) now focusing on on JUST bullet sizing and lubing. Right?

If you have a $14 Lee push-thru bullet sizer kit just spray your cast bullets with WD-40 and run 'em thru the push-thru sizing die on your single stage press. You can do 600/hour with ease.

Then, with your sized bullets let them sit for a day or two. Or wash them down in brake cleaner or alcohol to completely dry them again.

Prior to lubing your new bullets when the time is available, get things set up to boil down (outdoors to help eliminate a flashover if the solvents get too gaseous and ignite) some Johnson's Paste Wax in the yellow metal can over med/low heat to evaporate off the solvent carrier. Have good ventilation. You want the pure wax left without the solvent. Let it stay warm and liquid after the solvents are mostly burned off. As the JPW is near the final end of evaporating the solvents off, heat up some Lee ALOX until it runs as a liquid from the squirt bottle (microwave in a glass jar full of water, or some other suitable method).

When you have warm JPW with no solvent left, and LLA Alox nice and runny... set yourself up a glass jar marked for 45:45:10 levels of the JPW/ALOX and mineral sprits in that ratio.

Fill the jar and blend for a minute.

If you get the ratio right, you can run handfulls of oven-warmed pistol bullets (whether from a designed "tumble lube" mold or a grease groove mold) in a cool-whip container with a couple teaspoons of your stored 45:45:10 blend by warming until liquid, and roll them around until the bullets are covered and pour them all out on wax paper or parchment paper and they will be DRY in a couple hours.

In comparison, using heated straight ALOX right out of the bottle would take weeks to dry if you over-did it by just a few drops.

These 45:45:10 lubed lead bullets will stand up to about 1000-fps and shoot very clean.

If you use hot plain Lee Liquid Alox straight from the bottle in the same cool-whip bowl, roll the bullets around and pour them out, and depending on how much ALOX you threw in there, the time it takes for the bullets to dry is measured in geological time instead of days. And they will almost always feel "sticky".

The method I describe, if you make enough 45:45:10 to fill a small glass jelly jar, will probably let you lube about 5,000+ bullets. And do so without a Lubri-Sizer or stick lube or heaters or top punches.

BTW, the lubri-sizers are the way to go, especially if you want to push bullets fast. But if you feel the desire to avoid that investment you can do what I just described and be able to shoot most handgun bullets cleanly except for the heavy magnum velocity stuff.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:04 PM
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THEWELSHM THEWELSHM is offline
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This weekend

photo3_zps2adaf7e9.jpg Photo by THEWELSHM | Photobucket

photo2_zps3529a603.jpg Photo by THEWELSHM | Photobucket

photo1_zps05a43809.jpg Photo by THEWELSHM | Photobucket

photo4_zps58dfa8c8.jpg Photo by THEWELSHM | Photobucket

Now I will move forward with sizer and lube.

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Old 02-25-2014, 07:07 PM
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THEWELSHM THEWELSHM is offline
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Okay, we have completely separated (1) the whole case lubing&sizing the case steps on the loading press for your cartridge brass prep COMPLETELY out of the equation and we're (2) now focusing on on JUST bullet sizing and lubing. Right?

If you have a $14 Lee push-thru bullet sizer kit just spray your cast bullets with WD-40 and run 'em thru the push-thru sizing die on your single stage press. You can do 600/hour with ease.

Then, with your sized bullets let them sit for a day or two. Or wash them down in brake cleaner or alcohol to completely dry them again.

Prior to lubing your new bullets when the time is available, get things set up to boil down (outdoors to help eliminate a flashover if the solvents get too gaseous and ignite) some Johnson's Paste Wax in the yellow metal can over med/low heat to evaporate off the solvent carrier. Have good ventilation. You want the pure wax left without the solvent. Let it stay warm and liquid after the solvents are mostly burned off. As the JPW is near the final end of evaporating the solvents off, heat up some Lee ALOX until it runs as a liquid from the squirt bottle (microwave in a glass jar full of water, or some other suitable method).

When you have warm JPW with no solvent left, and LLA Alox nice and runny... set yourself up a glass jar marked for 45:45:10 levels of the JPW/ALOX and mineral sprits in that ratio.

Fill the jar and blend for a minute.

If you get the ratio right, you can run handfulls of oven-warmed pistol bullets (whether from a designed "tumble lube" mold or a grease groove mold) in a cool-whip container with a couple teaspoons of your stored 45:45:10 blend by warming until liquid, and roll them around until the bullets are covered and pour them all out on wax paper or parchment paper and they will be DRY in a couple hours.

In comparison, using heated straight ALOX right out of the bottle would take weeks to dry if you over-did it by just a few drops.

These 45:45:10 lubed lead bullets will stand up to about 1000-fps and shoot very clean.

If you use hot plain Lee Liquid Alox straight from the bottle in the same cool-whip bowl, roll the bullets around and pour them out, and depending on how much ALOX you threw in there, the time it takes for the bullets to dry is measured in geological time instead of days. And they will almost always feel "sticky".

The method I describe, if you make enough 45:45:10 to fill a small glass jelly jar, will probably let you lube about 5,000+ bullets. And do so without a Lubri-Sizer or stick lube or heaters or top punches.

BTW, the lubri-sizers are the way to go, especially if you want to push bullets fast. But if you feel the desire to avoid that investment you can do what I just described and be able to shoot most handgun bullets cleanly except for the heavy magnum velocity stuff.

Nice one mate thx for info

thewelshm
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:04 PM
Moonman Moonman is offline
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THEWELSHM,

Just in case your're interested in the 45/45/10 Alox Mix

WHITE LABEL LUBE sells what it calls DELUX X-Lox which is the

45/45/10 Alox/Johnson's Paste Wax/Mineral Spirits lube

It's called X-LOX BECAUSE LEE owns the name ALOX.

It's $15 plus shipping for 32 ounce container, but if you're overseas

this idea probable won't help you, it may help others though.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:05 PM
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THEWELSHM THEWELSHM is offline
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THEWELSHM,

Just in case your're interested in the 45/45/10 Alox Mix

WHITE LABEL LUBE sells what it calls DELUX X-Lox which is the

45/45/10 Alox/Johnson's Paste Wax/Mineral Spirits lube

It's called X-LOX BECAUSE LEE owns the name ALOX.

It's $15 plus shipping for 32 ounce container, but if you're overseas

this idea probable won't help you, it may help others though.
Thanks for info I live in FL so I think we are in good shape Sir


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Old 02-25-2014, 11:35 PM
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update, for the experimental purposes I bought bullet resizing dies and I am going to give the Alox a try, I may youtube the process. Although it does seem a lot cheaper to just buy the bullets I think its something most reloading enthusiasts should try. I will be casting S&W 500 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum. I will be weighing most and I':m sure some will go back in the pot I am sure many here have cast their " A" bullets and " B"? great experiment I will keep all informed, ( I'm Anal like that)

thewelshm
If you are buying alloy to cast with, you may be right. If you are scrounging or buying cheap alloy, then you can save a lot of money casting. As far as rejection rate, I NEVER weigh my plinking bullets, never. I cull any with base deformations & lube/size & shoot. I do weigh my hunting bullets for the 44mag, but then I am shooting with a scope out to 100yds.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:42 AM
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THEWELSHM THEWELSHM is offline
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If you are buying alloy to cast with, you may be right. If you are scrounging or buying cheap alloy, then you can save a lot of money casting. As far as rejection rate, I NEVER weigh my plinking bullets, never. I cull any with base deformations & lube/size & shoot. I do weigh my hunting bullets for the 44mag, but then I am shooting with a scope out to 100yds.
good info to know 99,9 of my time at range is plinking

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:56 AM
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THEWELSHM,

White Label lubes (45/45/10) is in ARKANSAS.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:31 AM
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good info to know 99,9 of my time at range is plinking

thewelshm
Small weight variations are not going to show up on the target for most pistol shooting @ 25yds & less. For longer ranges, smaller things matter. The biggest issue is uniform bases. Bases that have holes or not completely formed go back in the pot.
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