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Old 03-31-2014, 08:04 PM
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Default 9mm 124gr fac with w231

I have been loading the 124gr "Ball" (plated RN) with all kinds of powders from the NATO OAL of 1.165" to the minimum standard for the ball bullet at 1.14".
( not GD JHP at 1.125" )

the factory standard is around 1150 fps .........
with a 4" Springfield, I am having a heck of a time to even come close to this speed with the w231 powder.

Has anyone with a 124gr. FMJ at 1.14" OAL or more had their loads reach 1150 fps or at least come close.

Thanks for any info.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:22 PM
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4.0 grains of Red Dot gives me 1050 fps out of my 5904 with a 124 grain Precision Delta fmj. That was a starting load.

Mike
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:41 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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I just finished making 1600 rounds of 9mm 124gr FMJ, used Federal brass, CCI 500 primers, COL of 1.16" and 4.3 gr. of 231. Chronos at about 1050 fps from 5" 1911 and 4 3/4" XD. The speed you're looking for of 1150 fps is NATO standard and can be pretty hard on some semiautos, i.e. Hi-Powers. If you want to go that high I suggest a slower powder like AA#7 which has been my go to powder for NATO ammo.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:53 PM
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If you can find some, try Power Pistol. It's a bit flashy, but meters well and should get velocities in the range of what you are looking for.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
I have been loading the 124gr "Ball" (plated RN) with all kinds of powders from the NATO OAL of 1.165" to the minimum standard for the ball bullet at 1.14".
( not GD JHP at 1.125" )

the factory standard is around 1150 fps .........
with a 4" Springfield, I am having a heck of a time to even come close to this speed with the w231 powder.

Has anyone with a 124gr. FMJ at 1.14" OAL or more had their loads reach 1150 fps or at least come close.

Thanks for any info.
I hate to tell you but W231 might not be capable of safely generating the velocity you are looking for. I use a lot of W231 for jacketed and lead bullet range and practice ammo but for more serious work and higher velocities I turn to HS-6 or Longshot.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:25 PM
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If you can find it, HS6 should get you there. The book max of 6.8 gr with the 125 Sierra fmj says the mv is 1169. I worked up to this load with Hornady 124 XTP. Haven't had a chance to put it across the chrono yet, but it groups well out of my M&P 9 and has the feel(recoil) of a top end load.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:17 PM
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Power Pistol my friend, is the Droid you are seeking.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:36 PM
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PowerPistol, HS 6, Silhouette are all viable choices. Been there and done that with HS 6 and Silhouette. There is data out there to do it with some other powders too. 231 will get there with cast but I don't have any current data that shows 231 getting those velocities with jacketed.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:00 PM
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Thank you all for the info and advise..............

I will save the 231 for the 115gr where it works out.......and try all my other powders for the 1150 fps factory load.
I have been slowly working my way up in fps and OAL to get to the higher fps. Hoping to find a Fac. Dup. in the minimum length and also the maximum length for the 124gr PRN bullet.

Have loaded 85 bullets so far out of a 500 box...... 5 at a time. When I get it dialed in I will try a 10 group in the finals for the best loads so the fps has a better average.

With a 4" barrel 4.5grs of w231 at 1097 fps was not a bad shooting load and had a ES of only 19.

Have a great day.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:50 AM
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If you want 1,150 from the 9mm you are going to have to use a slower powder than W231. Unique will do it for you as will AA5, Ram Shot True-Blue, and other powders up to HS-6 and Blue Dot. Use Google to find a burn rate chart, available from several different sources and powder manufacturers for powders with a burn rate from Unique to Blue Dot.

Look for available data before you buy.
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:41 AM
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
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Quote:
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I Use Google to find a burn rate chart, available from several different sources and powder manufacturers for powders with a burn rate from Unique to Blue Dot.
Burn rate charts are in your load manual and the online powder sites.

Burn rate charts have limited use. They will tell you which powders are faster or slower but not HOW MUCH faster or slower. Burn rates of powders are also relative and will change when tested in different cartridges. It's really not a good way to choose a powder for the most part.

Even if a powder does fall within the window you're looking for it doesn't guarantee that powder will produce accuracy. If every powder of a similar burn rate were accurate in every cartridge there would be no reason for all of them.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:24 AM
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One of the reasons I like the Hornady Manual is that they list several loads for a cartridge with the the velocity they obtained, Usually out of a real gun and not a 10" test barrel

Not that you will actually get the fps that they did but it gives more than just a min and max.

I prefer to use the slower powders in 9mm , not a fan of Unique just do to metering but it is one of the top velocities.

Unique, PP, Blue Dot, AA #7, Win AP are the top velocity and as mentioned slower burn rates.(yes there are others)

These days it's a matter of what you have on hand or might possibly find.

Hodgdon keeps their burn rate chart up to date

Burn Rate
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:41 AM
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To further add to the confusion, BURN RATE is a function of the powder and CONTAINMENT, so it varies from cartridge to cartridge and even load to load. That's why actual pressure tests are vital instead of just using relative burn rate charts.

Oh yes, Ed, although my favorites HP38/Win231 and Titegroup are marvelous for minor power 9mm 124gr competition loads, I've found Power Pistol and HS6 are better suited for the "Purple Screamers" loads under Precision Delta 124gr FMJ. If that's your idea of fun...
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:27 PM
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Hodgdon keeps their burn rate chart up to date...............

#3 N310
#5 e3
#8 Red Dot

#13 BULLSEYS...................!!!

I think they need an update ?

I agree that burn rate is like a picture of flowers..............
you can see what they look like but............

there is no way to know what they smell like or taste like.

Sorry, that's the best that I could come up with, off the top of my head.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:10 PM
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WSF WILL DO IT. JP
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
Hodgdon keeps their burn rate chart up to date...............

#3 N310
#5 e3
#8 Red Dot

#13 BULLSEYS...................!!!

I think they need an update ?

I agree that burn rate is like a picture of flowers..............
you can see what they look like but............

there is no way to know what they smell like or taste like.

Sorry, that's the best that I could come up with, off the top of my head.
More up to date then a book published years ago. Use the Australian Equivalent chart and see which powders are "pretty much the same" only the names are different. This is NOT a direct substitution chart as the web site says!

With so many similar ones they have to list them somewhere, I do not know how they decide which goes first or second.

ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide

Call Hodgdon and tell them the correct order you would like them in
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:21 AM
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Yes, you are right..............
they have to put the data some place..........

However I do like that ADI a lot better.

While I am here, just as a note.............
don't bother to load Alliant Steel in any pistol loads.........
it is a waste of time, bullets and powder....

at least in my first try with 38 special loads.

later.

PS;

(per next post)
so as to not overload this thread...
Yes a "Steel guy"...........

actually "Red Iron" or "Rods".....
On a gravey train job.......welding.... having to lift a heavy welding rod, to put in my little stinger.
(Good recall )

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
Yes, you are right..............
they have to put the data some place..........

However I do like that ADI a lot better.

While I am here, just as a note.............
don't bother to load Alliant Steel in any pistol loads.........
it is a waste of time, bullets and powder....

at least in my first try with 38 special loads.

later.

And here I seem to remember that you are a "STEEL" guy??
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:35 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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From what I have found, 9mm NATO is faster than 1150 fps. I've seen it listed as high as 1230 fps for a 124 gr bullet. I found one place that lists two loads for that. 6.4gr of AA#5 and 8gr of BlueDot.

Miscellaneous Questions
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treeman View Post
PowerPistol, HS 6, Silhouette are all viable choices. Been there and done that with HS 6 and Silhouette. There is data out there to do it with some other powders too. 231 will get there with cast but I don't have any current data that shows 231 getting those velocities with jacketed.
^ Agree w/ Above.
W231/HP38 is a great powder for working up comp./game type loads, heavy bullets with just enough fps to still be accurate to make PF & nice push type felt recoil.
I too would not recommend using a fast-er type powder like W231 for high fps defense velocity loads.

The three stated above will produce those velocities.
PP is what it is, FLASHY & LOUD . . . bit more recoil but a given with the velocity most use PP for.
I am currently loading 9mm Power Pistol with 115/124/147 jacketed. 115 to approx. 1180 fps; 124 to approx. 1065-1080 fps; 147 925 fps.

I use W231/HP231 for heavier Lead/Plated bullets in 9/38/45/
W231 9mm
124 4.4-4.5 grains
147 3.5-3.7 grains

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Old 04-24-2014, 05:53 PM
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Just to expand on what I have already posted, I do use W231 for a lot of my 9mm loads but it can't safely do what the OP wants to do. I load 124/125gr cast and jacketed bullets, both with W231. I charge 4.0gr W231 with a 124gr LRN bullet and 4.4/4.6gr W231 with a Zero FMJ bullet. Both shoot well and are accurate but neither will do the velocities the OP asked for.

When I on rare occasions want more velocity I turn to HS-6 or Longshot. The problem with Longshot is, it is also very loud. HS-6 on the other hand will produce less noise and good velocity while still being accurate. My son's favorite 9mm ammo is made with Longshot while I use HS-6 instead. As much as it hurts me I must admit the Longshot ammo is slightly more accurate than the HS-6 ammo.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:48 PM
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Thanks everyone for all the help and advise.........

I have ten (10) final loads to be tested at minimal and factory speeds ? I passed on the w231 with the heavier 124gr but it is being tested with the lighter 115gr PRN bullet.

Have a week of heavy fishing to do right now at our yearly Pyramid Lake get together, with hopes of a ten pound Cutthroat..... but hope to get out and shoot later in May.
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