Hi
I find myself with many more rifle primers than pistol, can the rifle primers be used in pistol brass? Reason is I shoot more 40,9mm and 357Sig than my Sportsman .223

I guess the worst that could happen is a miss fire maybe I will load a few and try them

Your profile does not say where you are, so it is hard for Forum members to help you, but have you tried a local firearms board to see if you can trade with someone?

If you were local to me I would swap you out a few thousand to tide you over.

Do not forget to re-work your loads when switching to rifle primers. Especially if they are anywhere near max.

I wouldn't use rifle primers in a handgun load, they make two types of primers for a reason.

My Speer loading manual specifically says to not mix them, the rifle primer is harder and is designed to fire a larger powder charge.

Spend a few bucks and get the proper primer.

No, use pistol primers for pistol

A few months ago I loaded some 357s with small rifle primers because that was all I had at the time. I used them in a model 19 and a model 27 with no problems. Load a few and give them a try. Let us know how it turns out.

There are many, many threads on this topic.

Yes you can use small rifle primers in small pistol. The only drawback is rifle primers are a little harder and if you have light triggers (done trigger jobs) on you pistols you may not get ignition. The size is the same, the ignition is a little bit more, but not enough to change pressure that you will notice.

As with changing anything, go back to a start load and work up. If they go bang than you are good to go,

At least for CCI a small pistol Mag primer has more energy than a small rifle. A small pistol is only a tad less than a small rifle.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Using small rifle primers in pistol loads is not unheard of. In fact, Lupua calls for using small rifle primers in their load data for some loads.

In example:

.357 Magnum

Test barrel: 150 mm (6”), 1 in 18½” twist
Primers: Small Rifle
Cases: Remington, trim-to length 32,60 mm (1.283”)

There have probably been over a million 38 Super rounds loaded with small rifle primers, for IPSC open. They work just fine. Two things: some revolvers may give you misfires, but most semi autos ought to hit the primer hard enough; you may have to reduce your powder charge a bit, depending on how hot you are loading. Go ahead and load up with the SR primers. Just start low and work powder charge up.

This question comes up often. I have run tests with small rifle primers
compared to small pistol and small pistol magnum in various loads
fired over the chronograph. In light to medium loads with small
charges of fast burning powder you could use a mix of them and never
know the difference. The primer effect is less than the normal variation
between shots. In heavier loads using a larger charge of slower
burning powder the rifle primer yields a velocity that is nearly identical
to the velocity obtained with a magnum primer. Recently I bought
5,000 Win small rifle primers because pistol were not available. They
will all be fired in pistol rounds without worry.

Primers are designed and manufactured for specific applications. Follow the manufacturers intended purpose and you'll be head and shoulders above the picadors out there.

Absolutely. The rifle primers have thicker cups to deal with the higher pressures and generally run a bit hotter.

Plenty of people have used SRP in pistol rounds.

Kind like following SAMMI specs for storing primers and powder right?

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Still Running Against the Wind

I find this rather interesting, considering that the 454 Casull round was designed around a SR primer. The reason was because of the thicker cup, which was required to hold the high pressure of the round. There was never a thought about a FTF because of revolver springs being too weak to ignite the primer.

Use the SR primers; I don't anticipate you having any problems, but there is a quick way to determine whether you will have FTF issues: prime 15 or 20 cases and run them through your handguns. You will know in a hurry...

No problem using SRP's in a handgun case. Worst case scenario, light strikes (especially with striker-fired handguns) will not set the primer off. I use SRP's all the time in .357 Magnum loads.

Don

Not saying a person CAN'T do it by working up ther own data, but the hard cup/light strike thing may be a problem.

I think I would at least require a chronometer and start very low because the chance of overpressure is pretty great. I'd rather have a squib and have to get the bullet out of the barrel than blow up a firearm.

That's just plain silly. Magnum small pistol primers are hotter than regular small rifle primers.

Don

A small rifle primer will in no way create a pressure difference that would "blow up a firearm"

Go to this site, Scroll to the very bottom for load data for the 327 Federal Magnum Handgun loads.

Note the primer used.

When I first started loading this caliber I used the small rifle primer (In a J frame revolver) I then got more data which uses small pistol primers . It made NO difference. Do a search and you will find this topic discussed on many forums.

As I posted in the CCI primer chart (many times) there is very little difference in the SP and SR ignition. The Small Pistol Mag is way hotter.

And a "chronometer " is a time keeping instrument

http://www.speer-bullets.com/whatsne...ding_data.aspx

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Still Running Against the Wind

Went to the range and tried 5, 9mm 115 gr rounds loaded with small rifle primers, result? it doesn't work, shooting my Sig 226 the firing pin doesn't make a big enough imprint to fire the primer,
five wasted rounds down the hot tube

Did you double strike them? Were they fully seated?
If you want to be really frugal you can deprime them carefully and save them

What brand primer are they??

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Still Running Against the Wind

Here in Mexico, we are limited to the .380 brass for autos and the .38 Special for revolvers. We can better than duplicate .357 specs using the Elmer Keith load in .38 Special cases and it just uses a small pistol primer.

However, in fully-supported chambers in .380 1911's, to get up to a 170+ Power Factor (just for fun and games) we use a 150 grain Saeco bullet that hits around 1,125 fps from the .380 case in a 5 inch barrel. These cases are primed with small rifle primers and they don't look too bad after firing but normal CCI small pistol primers look positively scarey.

Is it an over-pressure load? Quite probably, there's no SAAMI spec for .380 cases fired in fully-supported chambers. Is it totally safe? Probably, it isn't. But we've got about half-a-dozen such guns down here and we've fired thousands of rounds of this load and it works and it does what we want it to do; it gives us pretty decent power out of a 1911 in a "legal" loading here in a country where some horse's backside in a suit or uniform sitting behind a desk in Mexico City has decided we really shouldn't have it.

We can duplicate 9 m.m. power out of 9 m.m. guns with .380 chambers all day long using regular small pistol primers but when you want to get up to .38 Super or .357 SIG power out of fully-supported chambers with the .380 acp case (don't even try with a regular-style chamber, we've been there and seen the results), using small rifle primers is advisable.

They can cause light-strikes on revolvers and striker-fired guns, but we really only use the small rifle primers on the 1911 platform with fully-supported chambers and often barrels up to 6 inches long and they give us an added safety-factor for our Super powered loads.

Some Mexican .380 loads.

1. Factory .380 acp. Good for pocket guns and works in the Glock 25, although it's power is about the same as expelled gas after a night of beer drinking. It's about a 92 power factor. Accepted as fine by Mexican IDPA, the Mexican IPSC guys call it the "Mouse Factor" and score it 5, 2, and 1 instead of the 5, 3, and 1 of Minor Caliber. It often cannot knock over Pepper-Poppers set to stay up in a light breeze.

2. The Lee 122 Grain Cone and 3.3 grains of Bullseye. This loading gets the .380 up to about a 120 power factor and works in the .380 Glock 25's factory .380 magazine. The load works well, although unless cast HARD it leads up quickly in the Glock rifling and loses accuracy. Still, we've had no blow-ups in thousands and thousands of rounds (this is the most common .380 round for beginners down here) and is referred to as ".380 Cal lite". LOA is around 1.0 which will still work in the Glock 25 magazine, or maybe .990.

3. The Lee 125 grain RN and 3.5 grains of Bullseye. One of the original ".380 Cal" rounds that duplicates 9 performance well enough but is still safe in the Glock 25 (which is a delayed-blowback, not a straight blow-back). Power factor of around 125. Can be tumble-lubed or sizing-press lubed.

4. The Lee 128 grain round nose and 3.7 grains of Bullseye. For use in 9 autos with barrels that have .380 chambers. The classic ".380 Cal" round, it duplicates 9 performance. Velocity is around 1,050 to 1,080 depending on barrel length and power factors at about 138 from the nearly ubiquitous Browning Hi-Power with a .380 barrel/chamber combination one sees now almost more than the factory-built Glock 25's. No, I do not have one myself, but it is so common it may have superceeded the Glock as the "Mexican IPSC pistol", because it really works well with the .380 Cal cartridge.

5. The first of the ".380 Super Cal" cartridges built for the 1911's with fully supported chambers. A 140 grain Saeco SWC above a powder-packed powder charge and a small-rifle primer producing 1,175 fps from a 5 inch GM and 1,210 from a 6 inch. Popular loading, very accurate. Great for shooting the PPC.

6. Not pictured. The new .380 Super Cal is a Saeco 150 grain RN doing about 1,125 fps from a 5 inch 1911 (fully supported), 1,155 from 6 inches and a nice 1,100 fps from the 4.75 inch "Nash Bridges" 1911 we recently built to play with. Small rifle primers, of course. All lead bullet loads are sized to .356



The "Nash Bridges" 1911 one of our guys had built down here. It's 4 3/4 inch barrel can barely make a 170 power factor, but it can do it. You need a stout load to make this thing work with all that weight on the end of the barrel, it's a steel comp not titanium. If one doesn't use small rifle primers you'd be apt to blow out a regular primer in the .380 case.



Most Mexican IPSC style 1911's are 5 inch -- the vast majority are 6 inch. It gets the hottest loads we can make up to .357 Sig power and we've blown nothing up yet. Knock on wood, of course. The things one has to do to get around stupid rules.

A chronometer can be used for measuring bullet speed but you must shoot at a metal plate. Time the bullet from barrel exit to when you hear it hit the plate. Then divide distance traveled by time of travel. Of course you have to consider the speed of sound..... OR.....
use a chronograph.

As for those five wasted rounds...good reason to buy another pistol that has a harder hitting firing pin.

Using SR instead of SP primers has been done without Kabooms.
Work up your loads.
Wonder if the pencil test is applicable to help determine which handguns will strike and set the primer off.

In competitive shooting in Mexico do you draw from a holster or
the small of back?

We use holsters. In fact, I use my old 1980's IPSC holster with my 1911. For my revolvers, I have a really nice Milt Spark's crossdraw holster built up for N-frames.

A popular holster is the Galco Dual Position Phoenix. The guys take it to this little, local leather-smith/shoemaker and he cuts off the thumb release, contours the leather and refinishes it and then uses his stitching machine to restitch the leather so it looks like it came that way from the factory.

They tell me that this guy is going to start producing holsters for us. We'll see how that turns out. If you can picture IPSC before the race-guns and red-dot sights came into being, you're pretty much bang-on to what the Mexican IPSC is like.

The popular class here is the Standard Revolver Division as that's where we can actually make Major Caliber (using Heavy Duty loads) and the Heavy Duty, Outdoorsman, and homemade versions of either of those two revolvers rule the roost. Fun stuff. Sorry to take us off topic, though.

Sorry, that is a mistake I make continuously. ChronoGRAPH. Thanks for pointing that out.

Calmex, as I read about your doin's with reloads to get around caliber restrictions there I was reminded of Skeeter's ramblings about using the 38 Spl to its fullest effect with reloads. Seems that in 357 rated guns he would take Lyman 357156 GC bullets and seat them out one ring to leave more space in the "boiler room" for powder... he claimed he could get 357 equivalent performance outer of cheap, readily available brass. I don't know whether that will help in your situation, but I just thought I'd toss it out to see.

Regards,
Froggie

To avoid pulling bullets and charges, I would just prime the brass and put it in the firearm (without a charge or a bullet). If the firing pin fires the primer, you know it will work. The other plus is that you can fire something like this in the basement or garage, without going to the range.

Saves time figuring if it will work or not.

With all that said, I always use the correct primer (made for the job).

Heck with the high prices Smart phones and expensive Watches out there there is probably a interface (APP for that!!!)

They have scopes you can link to your smart phone that tells where to aim and when to pull the trigger!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Hello, Froggie.
Yes, we started out that way, seating 200 grain bullets and the 160 SWC bullets longer in the cases to duplicate .357 length. But there were always people willing to ingratiate themselves to the Mexican Military who ran and squealled that more powerful rounds could be visually detected by seeing the long-seating.

People like that were immediately put out of Sport Shooting by using the "cold shoulder" method, where they were simply ignored and allowed to die-on-the-vine, not allowed to practice with the IPSC guys, not invited to Club functions, yadda, yadda, yadda. Initially, we had some threats of legal action until someone pointed out that joining a social group wasn't a "right", it was a privilege, and their privileges had been taken away.

Still, we felt we should work on the problem from the other direction: designing Heavy Duty rounds that did not visually appear to be different in any regard from normal pressure rounds. After all, the original Elmer Keith round of a 358429 above 13.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case delivers about 18% more power than a modern-day factory .357 round and about 25% more power than an orginal Heavy Duty loading and it's safe enough to use and is not "long loaded".

So, we went at it from that angle and came up with a plethora (picture the Mexican Bandit in the "Three Amigos" asking his first officer; "Jefe, would you say I have a plethora?") of Heavy Duty loads that offer us Major Power, one thumb ejection, and are not visually distinctive from normal .38 Special rounds. Yes, we paint the primers red right now so that we have a visual identifier. That may change in the future if further problems arise from the little tattle-tales, but so far there have been none. I think the fact that we are willing to expell people from the ranks and have been actually doing so for violating the "loose lips sink ships" policy may be finally starting to have some effect.

Remember; reloading is not illegal here -- only the ARMY says it is. A court would not uphold that (and in fact, in several cases, has not upheld it). Loading a more powerful load into a .380 or .38 Special case is not illegal, only the Army would like it to be. So, to a good degree, the law is on our side. But still, why fan the flames? It's better to always be as legal as you can be, without sacrificing your freedom and honor to those who would impose their will upon us only to take advantage of the disarmed.

But long-loading was where we started. Thanks for mentioning it, though.

I was using Remington SRP primers I take the barrel out to test fit the loaded ammo Didn't double strike, but I will just use SRP for rifles and vice versa It is a Sig P226 mk 25 you can see the difference in the strike marks between the ones that didn't fire and the ones that did

I buy and use SR primers 90% of the time even though I use them in handguns 90% of the time. The only time I buy SPP's is when I am in need of small pistol primers and there are no SR primers available. Of course I don't use SPP's in rifle loads.

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A question, can small pistol primers be used to reload .223 Rem? Was told or read CCI is hard enough for AR use.