Guys, the one thing I have read, they say reloaders who use tumblers are very prone to high levels of lead. That said, I bought an ultrasonic machine that uses wet media to clean them. But the brass does not come out shiny, they are clean but not shiny. I am wondering, if I were to clean them using the ultrasonic machine first, then I deprime them, then I run them through the tumbler, would that pretty much eliminate any risk of lead dust being kicked up in the air? What I am trying to do is eliminate any possibility of lead exposure.

Probably subject to higher levels of lead while shooting. Got to die of something eventually. I'll keep tumbling.

I throw a hand towel over the top of my tumbler to keep the dust down.I wouldn`t think much lead is left behind after shooting anyway,unless there is lead in powder fouling.

Not sure where you got your info but all material I have read indicates reloaders and shooters have no higher blood lead levels than non shooters. Now maybe if one is shooting at an inside range with poor ventilation that could change.
I tumble my cases outside on a covered porch and shoot outside. I always shoot cast lead bullets and have for many years. Like the other poster said, your exposure to any lead dust/particles comes from shooting instead of tumbling cases.

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SWCA #2421

I tumble my brass outside, and my Lyman 1200 has a slotted lid. Let it run a couple hours, then come back out and shut it off. Also change my media often.

Your biggest lead risk is ingestion. Meaning unclean hands that enter the nasal area, eyes or mouth. If you wash your hands, you should be more than ok.

I have a company that has an employee that handles lead strips for x-rays all day long, every day AND cuts the lead into strips. He gets tested every three months and I'm told no raised lead numbers in the blood. He does wear some light gloves, but wash every time he leaves his work area. If he can do this, I'm sure you can periodically handle lead. Just use some 4 mil nitrile gloves and throw them away when done handling.

I've used a Thumler's Tumbler for 35 years. I had my blood tested for lead a few years ago and the level was below what is usually found in people my age that live in metropolitan areas.

You worry too much.

I wash my cases in soapy water then rinse them, to get loose lead off of them. Adds a step and they take a few days to dry but seems like it should help. I tumble after they are dry.

You bring up a good point. Not everyone will react as we all come from a different gene pool. Some smoke and never get cancer. Some one else breaths 2nd hand smoke and die of cancer. You never know.
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Check out the Tumblers Tumbler with stainless steel pins. Just watch out for the amount (weight) of brass you place in the tumbler. Use a hex shaped tumbler as it will clean better. I have never ran a comparison to verify the ad statement. I just bought one and really like it.
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You can consider wearing nitrile gloves when doing reloading or gun cleaning.
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Good you are thinking safety. That will translate to safe reloading and the reading of several gun manuals.

This is one of those threads that I 'thought' was going to be funny or a crazy twist on something. Like, it's hazardess because it will keep you from eating or sleeping because you'll be obsessed with getting that "shiny like new" brass and won't stop cleaning until you do. Didn't expect the serious tone at all. After realizing it was a serious thread I will say my first thought was, "how could I get lead poisoning from brass"? I will definitely stop licking the brass to get the stubborn spots off.

I use WET TUMBLING with Stainless Steel Pins, and wear Nytrile Gloves.

For those using VIBRATOR TUMBLERS, change your media more frequently,

place a few 1" squares of a dryer sheet in with it.

When you change or dump the media, do it outside and wear a dust mask

(Dust is LEAD STYPHANITE CONTAMINATED) from the primer dust.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I put a small cut-down towel over the top of mine too but then I use a water spray bottle to dampen the towel. Always leave the dirty side down & throw it away when it looks done. I would expect the media to be contaminated too but that doesn't get handled as it gets dumped in the sifter.

Fact is, most anything a person can do can be hazardous to their health.

When tumbling, I have used dryer sheets, nitrile gloves and a dust mask. Some extra bother but not that much once you make it part of the routine. I get tested every year, and the only time I have had a high reading is after a remodeling project on an old house where I likely picked up a bit of lead dust from the old paint.

I've had a consistently low level during periods of not much reloading and a lot of reloading, so it seems that my reloading doesn't have much to do with my lead level.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I use a Thumler's Tumbler with Stainless Steel Pins, and lead compounds produced by cleaning go down the sink. BTW, I only load with plated bullets or jacketed hollow points so I doubt I'm putting much lead down the drain.

Note, tried an ultrasonic and wasn't satisfied with the results. With my Thumblers I get brass that looks factory new and I'm not soaking it in an acidic bath.

Read Patrick Sweeney's books. He's a chemist but also a certified gunsmith and pistol competitor. The lead scare is blown out of proportion. Don't put it in your Wheaties, and wash your hands after handling it or at least before sucking your thumb.

The main problem with lead exposure from cleaning brass is the lead stypnate in the leftover primer residue.
+1 on the SS media wet cleaning method. I do it because it just works better, not because of any lead hazard.

On the other hand, the inability to spell the word "hazardous" is considered an early warning sign of lead poisoning in some medical circles.

My 25 year old Thumblers Tumbler has a sealed lid so no dust comes out when it's running,No problems with Lead on My last Lab Report

I clean my brass with the ultra sonic cleaner, rinse and then tumble them in walnut media to dry them. They come out very shiny.

BUT ALL dust/powders affect my sinuses now & why I wear a dust mask. I used to tumble, out in the garage & let it sit before opening it first. NOW I boil the dirty brass in an old dedicated pot & pool skimmer basket in water/dishsoap/ vinegar & dry on an old cookie sheet in the oven @ 150-200 degrees. They come out VERY clean. Granted I can be OCD about brass, but it's more about the wt difference between clean cases & those with built up old powder. Once sized/decapped I use a dremmel, (don't forget the dust mask during this step) with a wire brush to clean out the primer pocket & inside bottom of the case & a bore brush to get any residue left on the inside walls of the case, then lube them with Hornady one shot. A BIT EXTREME? SURE, but I get good groups and all cases, sorted by brand/mfg/length/wt, get marked with a certain color nail polish & recorded so I know the details of each piece of brass & which ones are mine at the range. I trim cases & uniform the flash holes on each lot/color of brass & it has yet to ever needed to be done a 2nd time, and they all stay within a consistent length/wt.

Mostly u have to worry about Lead Poisioning is in massive doses ! 115 , 150 , 180 , 230 , 240 grain etc. at a time ! He He ! Like Earnest Borgnine said

I started wet cleaning my brass a few years ago; nothing big or fancy, just hot water, a little vinegar, a dash of salt and some Dawn dish soap. Let soak about 45 minutes and agitate a few times during. Some of the dirtier brass gets tumbled for a few hours in my Lyman tumbler. I throw in a few cotton cleaning patches and the tumbler runs outside. I don't have a sifter, so I wear latex gloves when sorting the brass from the media. As a side note, I also cast my own bullets. Always in a well ventilated area or outdoors when weather permits and I have a fan that blows any smoke/fumes away from me/the work area. So fAR nO pRoBlEmS tHaT I cAn TeLl ;-)

I am convinced that variations in my grip has greater influence on my 1911 group sizes than dirty brass, primer pocket residue, case length variation, or case headstamp. My reloads are made with AA #2 powder and home cast lead bullets made from range scrap mined from the dirt berm.

The usual casting and reloading practices will now resume followed by washing my hands.

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S&WHF 366

I have had the same experience as MichiganScott up above. I used a tumbler for years and had my blood tested several times. I am artificially low in lead according to my doc. Considering I shoot between 10 and 20 thousand rounds a year this is odd.

I attribute it to good hygiene and a bit of care in dealing with the dust and contamination.

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SWCA 1646

I dig my cases out of my (small) tumbler with a spoon and/or fingers and common sense says not to lick dusty brown fingers. I avoid indoor ranges around here as none seem to have proper "downrange" ventilation.

I think your concern is well founded. I was also concerned, so I switched to Thumlers Tumbler with SS pins. It was a good move. There is no more dust at all, the brass is done quicker, the brass gets 100% cleaned inside and out, and the consumables now are dish soap and Lemi shine.

I would hate to go back to dusty tumbling.

Just like when I go to the bathroom, doctor a horse or cow, or pick up dog ****, I wash my hands before sucking my thumb or picking my nose.

As always, yes & no. If you tumble inside with the lid off, empty with the wind blowing in your face, yes you will be exposing yourself to lead particles. Keep the lid on, empty outside upwind, wash your hands, not much of an issue. Washing the media when it gets really dirty helps, or just toss it, it's cheap enough to throw out 2-3x a year.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

This post said it first but I was going to jump in and say that it's not spelled hazardess, it's hazardous. Next, I use a Berry's vibratory cleaner with a solid cover. It runs while sitting on my reloading bench while I'm doing something else nearby. I get zero dust. Berry's separator (rotary) is also fully enclosed so nothing comes out when you spin it to remove the media. Leave it closed for a while before opening and any dust will settle out. You could empty the container outside to avoid stirring up any dust. I wear gloves while reloading to avoid any lead contact and still wash my hands afterward. One real danger, and I don't do it, is casting bullets. Melting the lead puts vapor in the air and, without adequate ventilation, it can be deadly. I personally knew someone who did a lot of bullet casting and suffered lead poisoning to the point where he almost died. Be careful with all reloading activities and you'll be OK.

Most of your lead exposure come from primers.

Using a tumbler, Put the SOLID lid cover on it.

When done, use a brass/media separator of some sort OUTSIDE.

Your exposure to dust or lead is now less than the air you breath in a smog filled city.

If you shoot indoors then that us were you will have the most exposure.

There is a gazillion threads on this. Look up at the top under notable threads.

Blood lead levels

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Still Running Against the Wind

YES! In fact, there was some research done quite awhile back, IIRC....

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

If you use tumbler outside, depending on the wind it could be blowing right back into your garage, near the door of house, etc... The closed lid seems fine until you dump the media out. In the garage with open windows, well ok stuff gets on floor and now you track it in when you walk inside. I don't think dry media is safe period. I bought the ultrasonic but now thinking I should have bought the SS with pins

I tumble my brass outside and place a few dryer sheets in with the brass. It keeps the dust and any lead down. Wearing gloves when handling uncleaned brass is helpful.

Well you don't piss into the wind do you?

You pour the media out with your back to the wind if that is an issue not dump it .

Probably 100 to 1 tumblers sold to other wet methods but that's what there are choices in the world. They both work.

You can just wash it in a bucket with 2 cups of vinegar, 2 tbls salt, a drop of dish soap and 1 gal of water. Not buy anything.

What do you do with all your contaminated water? Pour it in the kitchen sink? How about the yard and then it leaches into the ground water.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Lead, from shooting is only absorbed into the body by inhalation or ingestion, You can get some through the eyes.

Handling lead as in bullets or brass does not let lead into your body. If you wash your hands and arms then you are fine.

If you eat, smoke or put your fingers in your nose then you will absorb some lead.

What will you do about depriming the old primers? Those contain lead and punching them out will "dust" primer lead.

Do you shoot indoors at a range that allows lead primers and bullets. If so then you are doomed.

If you shoot outside how to you pick up your brass? If you sweep the concrete that will kick up more dust than a years worth of tumbler media.

What you clean off brass is not lead it is carbon with some lead in it.

You do not have to clean brass, dirty brass will work just fine as long as it's not sand or dirt in there.

Wash your hand arms and face after shooting and all will be well.


NRA-RSO

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Still Running Against the Wind

Believing everything you read on an Internet Forum can be hazardous to you mental health because somethings just ain't no problem. I'm going to die of something, and at my age probably sooner than later.

Lead contamination or bodily intake is a non-issue with just a little common sense (which isn't to common in this thread) and the simple act of washing your hands after reloading or casting activities.

My normal hobby activities will now resume.

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S&WHF 366

Your primer dust brought to mind secondary detonation. The tubes can collect the primer dust so when one gets dropped, it can detonate causing the actual primers to detonate. Federal primers are higher octane so to speak and more likely than others to react.

Where do you find the SS pins some mentioned? I'd like to try them in my vibrating tumbler.

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Dave Frost

They don't seem to work well in a vibrator. The pins drop to the bottom, and the cases want to ride on top.

Any of the major online gun stores sell them. I picked up a small package from amazon, and have been very happy. It does require extra steps, but the end product is worth it.

For small batches, harbor freight sells a tumbler for about $50 that has worked pretty well for me. A larger tumbler may work faster, but I start it and let it run for a couple of hours at a time. I will probably build a large scale unit at some point.

Pins (and tumblers) are available here Stainless Tumbling Media | Stainless Steel Media 5lbs.

As has been said, the pins won't work in a vibratory tumbler (because it doesn't "tumble") you need something that rotates (like a rock tumbler). I do quite a few pieces of brass per week so I use a small cement mixer (1.25 cu ft from Harbor Freight) with Lemishine and Car wash soap. Tumble about an hour, use a media separator (I use the kind that is used with walnut shell media) and rinse multiple times, then I lay them on a towel for a few days to dry but an oven can be used. (or the sun, but I don't see that a lot in Seattle )

Attached Images

	IMG_20131122_094748_172 (Small).jpg (71.8 KB, 37 views)
	shiney and dull brass 3.jpg (151.5 KB, 35 views)

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Minimize the variables

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yes. There is lead in the residue in brass. It's from the primers. That is why "NT" ammo has lead free primers and encapsulated bullets.

I give my brass a soak in Lemi Shine for about an hour. My media stays pretty clean.

And if yer gonna pick yer nose after a range session don't...ummm... well... never mind...

An added note: Some use too much media when tumbling. The cleaning comes from the movement of, not the amount of, media. Less is more in this case. One way to check is if all your cares are full of media and not clean inside, too much media.

I wear a respirator, latex elbow gloves and eye protection when I open my tumblers. I am a shooter, had my lead level checked (5 yrs. ago)and it was elevated slightly above normal. I decided better safe than sorry so I made changes in my handling methods. Besides, my wife had marital input I choose to heed.

Hot water and a squirt of dawn and about 1/4 teaspoon of citric acid in a 3gal. bucket. Nice and clean inside and out but not necessarily real shiny. I'm making ammo, not jewelry.

Actual respirator NIOSH approved or a dust mask?
And from a baseline, has you blood level been checked again.? Has it changed?? Do you shoot indoors or outdoors?

Many years ago I worked in a industry with extremely toxic chemicals and solvents. As a supervisor I was required to have all MSDS available and safety protocols.

So I am curious. All new employees had blood tests before working to establsh baseline levels.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Just not true. Casting lead does not put lead vapor in the air. Casting temps are too low to vaporize lead, 650deg or so. Same health concerns for casting as reloading, wash your hands. You breath more lead in a year of shooting indoors weekly, from vaporized lead primer dust, vs years of casting. Wash your hands, get some exercise, eat well, shooting & handling lead is just not a big deal.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I've been tumbling brass and casting bullets since 1973. I should be pooping out sinkers by now but my lead levels are normal.
Common sense prevails. Wash your hands a lot.

Nearly five years ago I was getting a routine physical at my Doctor's office. I offhandedly mentioned to him that I shoot and reload recreationally and am exposed to lead often, both by handling cast lead in reloading and breathing in the fumes at indoor ranges. He suggested that I get a test for lead in my body. One was a blood test. This is more of a point in time measurement that sees if you have been exposed to lead recently. Unfortunately, low lead levels in the blood is not necessarily a good test of lead levels in the body. One of the reasons lead is so bad for us is that it easily attaches to cells in the body. And it stays there. The results came back and I was very high. I am thankful for this test then because if I took a break from shooting, the lead levels in my blood would gradually decrease and would go down to normal, or close to it and I would never have known to check any further for lead.
Since my levels were high, I did what is called a urine challenge. It basically involves taking a a few pills of a chemical called EDTA. This chemical is used in chelation and it extracts heavy metals from the body and allows them to be excreted in urine. The urine can then be tested for levels of heavy metals. The sample was sent to labs and came back off the charts. The recommended level of lead in the body is < 10 micrograms per gram of sample. Mine was 700. The doctor had never seen a number so high. My levels were high for other heavy metals too, like antimony (an ingredient in gunpowder) and aluminum.
I had been undergoing regular chelation treatments (i.e. my own personal lead remediation), which involves receiving a 1/2 hour IV drip of an EDTA and vitamin B12 cocktail. I have gotten the number from 700 to 400, and now down to 60. I will be continuing until I can get that number down to 10 or less and perhaps periodically afterwards too. Personally, I don't feel like I have ever felt the effects of heavy metal toxicity. Does that mean there were none, I assume not. But heavy metals do effect children and pregnant women in the form of learning disabilities and birth defects.
I have a lot of friends on the site who had been asking me to come shoot with them. I have really been trying to avoid going shooting until this is finally under control. The big debate is the source of the lead posioning. My doctor believes that growing up in the industrial state of New Jersey already hamstrings us and raises our numbers. I have done some reading on absorption of lead, and it is not through the skin. So I would only attribute some of it to my loading lead bullets (although I have switched to complete metal jacketed for loading). My belief is that the majority came from shooting in poorly ventilated indor ranges and breathing in vaporized lead dust. Even if my bullets are fully surrounded with copper, the guy's next to mine aren't. And I have no doubt that I am breathing lead clouds from everyone else around me. I also believe it came from the lead dust kicked up by dry tumbling, and use wet now. I am sure that it is some combination of all of the above. I also don't know if I am more susceptible to this lead posioning for some reason than the general public, but I do know that I make it a rare occasion to shoot indoors now.

I have always wondered that myself...

For those that gave trouble using the search feature here are some good links.

In this thread are these links

LEAD vs JACKETED (bullets) only the facts please


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owa...RDS&p_id=10031

February, 97 Lead

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Still Running Against the Wind

This was exactly my point and why I was concerned about lead exposure. What people don't understand is lead exposures is a long term deal. Lead leads to kidney failure and a host of other problems. Sure we all will die someday but if you end up in the hospital needing kidney transplant, and you got no insurance, well that won't be comforting. I get it that some don't care about how long they live or if they put harmful things in their body. I.e., smoking, excessive drinking, etc.. I don't smoke, don't drink, and I don't eat out because restaurant food is the worse for your health. The unhealthiest meal you prepare at home is still way better than anything you can eat outside the home. Anyway thanks everybody for the great advice and contribution. I think wet tumbling will definitely help. I know some here think I am being ridiculously too cautious, but I always error on caution.

As far as some who posted lead dust from depriming, what if I were to do it right next to a large capacity hepa filter? I think that would work pretty well.