I'm going to load some 9mm Hornady HP/XTP (#35540) with some HS-6. It is not needed to be "hot or not", just a normal good load for primarily S&W Model 39 and Glock 19.

I'm thinking about just going for 7 grains og HS-6, which according to my European reloading books should be a starting load (7,5 grains meting maximum).

Any thoughts?

I load my 115 gr xtp ammo at 6.7 to 7.0 HS 6 with good results according to my Lee stats, 7.0 is max Couldn't find HS 6 so I picked up some IMR 4756 in order to cycle I loaded 6.5 gr their max is 5.2 that sounds low compared to the hs6

Just did the same thing with 6.5 gn of HS-6 and it easily meets USPSA minor power factor. Very consistent, easily meterable powder.

Chris

Hodgdon use the Gold Dot but it is "similar"

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

Per the Hornady manual you are over their MAX also for the 115 XTP

I am not posting actual data. If you need the Hornady data please PM me,

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Still Running Against the Wind

I am interested in what OAL was used with the XTP 115 bullets.

Some have a 124gr HP at 1.125" ....... never saw a 115gr XTP in any data so far that gave a oal.

They are said to work great in the gel and 4G test with the 3" 9mms at 1095 fps.

13" penetration!!

Hornady uses 1.075. The XTP has this little line thingy, do dad on it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks alot. I'll research some more. I'm pretty sure I used 7,2 grains of HS-6 last time I loaded a 115 grains bullet. It was also a Hornady HP bullet (don't remember which). I still have some so I'll take one apart and see how much HS-6 actually is inside (the loads have worked great in varias guns).

Sent you some info in a PM, have fun with it that's a great load combo your using.

Thanks alot. And gues what. I'm using Berdan cases

Your Glock will love that load, I have a 2nd gen 19 and there's now 2 more 4th gen 19's in the family and they really don't like anything that runs under 33K psi at all, especially the new ones.

You were spot on with what you were using

You do not write down the data on you reloads so you know what powder and how much is used along with other information??

The loads that are listed on these posts exceed the Hodgdon Max and the Hornady Max for HS6 and the 115 XTP

Not very safe practices.

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Still Running Against the Wind

YES I do, however these loads where made YEARS ago, and after a couple of tours to Iraq I lost some reloading INFO. And normally I only reload rifle ammo (for hunting), and you can wake me up anytime during the night and I can tell you what the velocity at 100 meters would be on any given load I ever made for rifle (of course chronografed at 100 meters). Also I can should you test groups for any load I ever made.

Unfurtunatly I've never been that dedicated when it gomes to pistol realoding. Mainly because I pratically only shoot army ammo (don't hardly ever shoot privatly), but I've got vacation right now and found a box of bullets in the drawer so I thought I would enjoy myself with some reloading.

But you are right

A piece of tape and a sharpie.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I guess I am a bit retentive. I keep track of every load for every caliber I have ever done, in a three-ring binder.

With a copy on the computer.

Well you guys you must understand the difference between Denmark and USA regarding anything regarding weapons. To put it short I can't carry pocketknive if the blade can be locked in open possision and is longer the 7 cm (that is SHORTER then 3 inches). And I'm a army major and have served several places.

Imagine the rulles for owning a gun or getting a reloading permit.

The old load was made prior to a tour to x-Jugoslavia in 1995. It was made so my wife had some better rounds then army FMJ (of course the pistol in the house was on a sporting permit. It takes two years as an active shooter in a club before you can apply for a permit to bring home the gun).

A label was put on the ammo box but years later the boxes had to be used for some "sports round" so the label was removed. But why?

Because the chance of me finding a 115 grains HP bullet in Denmark ever again is (was) pretty low.

A year ago I was on a exercise close to one of Denmarks largest huntingstores (the size of what you got in any smaller city). They hold VERY little reloading stuff for handguns. Well guess what they had two boxes of the HP/XTP (YES only two) so I bought them. I can't find the Best manstopper and build up the best load. I have to take what I can find.

I won't even tell you how difficult it was for me to get 65 grain Sierra Game King .223 bullets into the country.

So gentlemen you are right but this is a different world.

I chrono'd a 7.0 gr load of HS-6 behind a Remington 115gr JHP S&B cases lit by a Winchester primer shot from my Glock 19. The 10 shot average velocity was 1,237 fps. Was listed as a max load at that time and still is maximum for the current Hodgdon on line data.

The Hornady data from my Load book shows their maximum is 6.4gr with the 115gr XTP for 1,150 fps.

1,237 fps should be 377 m/s (sorry I'm European). That does not make me worry too much. A standard NATO FMJ 115 grain (also gomes in 124 grains odly enough) should have a muzzle velocity of at least 350 m/s (1,148). Normally they are around 365 m/s (1,196). But your messure of 1,237 is in the fast end and therefor the load must be in the max end.

With that being said. On my can of Hodgon HS-6, they list 6.8 grains for a 124 grain Sie. FMJ (1,169). If they safely sugguest 6.8 grains for a 124 grain bullet I would think 7.0 for a 115 grain bullet would be safe. Am I totally wrong?

My own European loading manual list 7.0 HS-6 as STARTING load (1,201) and 7.5 as max (1,225) for a 115 grains Speer Gold Dot. This is why I'm thinking 7.0 for the Hornady bullet would be safe.

It sounds as a low load based on the info above (this is why I love reloading. The research part has to be 100 % ok).

Thanks to all of you and please keep it comming.

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However Hodgon.com does list 6.9 and 7.0 as max loads???

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And my own manual which I have no reason to doubt.

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I now took apart one of the few HP 9 mm reloads I have, that was made YEARS ago. I thought they where 115 grains but in fact they where 124 grains. They hold 6.7 grains of HS-6 which is a maximum load. They have worked well.

The sporting loads I reloaded hold 6.6 grains of HS-6 for an Italien 123 grains LRN GZN and they also work fine.

I'm think I'll go for 7 grains of HS-6

Different bullet=Different Test=Different Results

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Still Running Against the Wind

I know and that is excatly why I have made this "post". I need some experienced advice from fellow reloaders who have used HS-6 for 9 mm. So please keep posting how many grains of HS-6 you would use for the bullet in qustione. And write WHY

I already did, I use Hornadys data. Someone posted the page for you. I do not do that but offered it to you by PM. They made the bullet and tested it in a SW M 39 with a 4" barrel. Probaly the 7 gr load will not be a great change but why go there? The lower 6.4 (max) or even 6.0 should be just fine.

You are wanting to start above Hornadys MAX, Do you need the max velocity for power factor or something? If not then the middle data is more than sufficient.

I use Power Pistol in 9mm and 40 SW but have used HS6

You can get more velocity with PP and not go over into +P loads.

My CZ Custom is tuned so light and has light recoil and trigger springs it will function well on mouse fart loads.

I load pretty much every handgun caliber for 32 on up through 44 Mag and 45 Colt. I see no reason to go to the max loads. Occasionally I have extra heavy cardboard targets so they call for the big loads!

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Still Running Against the Wind

That's a plated Speer Gold Dot bullet, easily confused as being a full metal jacketed round and was a pretty poor choice for only one of the two options they bothered to test and list for current data. The shot initiation pressure for that bullet is significantly lower than the 2175 psi required for a full metal jacket casing.

Here's another source for you to look at, Midway used to test and publish very comprehensive load data for the 9mm. See page 39 first to verify they used a seated depth for the 115g XTP for a COL of 1.100" then proceed on to page 42 where you will see the chart for HS-6 showing their max load at 6.6 grains.

Link here: MidwayUsa LoadMap 9mm

Bottom line, with any case and especially higher pressure rounds in the 9mm class your going to see conflicting data on published max powder charges for the same bullet and powder combinations depending on how deep that laboratory technician decided to seat the bullet.

Also, American load data versus European manuals won't likely show the same results. US labs test everything with Piezo crystal technology under SAMMI guidelines to measure the highest recorded pressure event in the chamber and the copper crusher methods employed in Europe just aren't as sensitive and all comparisons point to the main differences being the crystals ability to sense peak pressure spikes of extremely short duration that copper crush testing just can't pick up on.

Smith-Nut, I understand that you're trying very hard to get this one right the first time as you have no extra components or the availability to acquire more to do any testing with at all and want to have ammo on hand for purposes other than possibly making holes in paper. I believe we all like to keep some of that around, it's just easier in the States to buy it already made.

Let me help you out here. I have plenty of HS-6, Winchester standard small pistol primers and 115 XTP's on hand and I need to work this load up anyway as the 115 xtp is always on my list of pet loads I make with Accurate 5 powder and I haven't been able to get any more of that. Last week brought me a backorder of HS-6 to replace AA5 and I need to make new test ladders for everything.

I drive the 115 xtp to an average speed of 1,227 FPS with AA#5 as my *pet* load for that round to stay inside of SAMMI +p pressure guidelines (out of a Glock 19). I'll go work the HS-6 load up to the same velocity range and share the results with you in a PM I have enough time to get those made and my chronographs like the late afternoon sun better this time of year.

Trophyhunter thank you very much. PM receaved and I did ask you one qustion which I hope you will answer before I decide.

You nailed my problem on the head. If I could get handgun ammo or even just bullets like you can I would work up a load. I have all the tools needed (including chronograf and army shootinglanes etc.).

My hunting loads (.308, .223, 7x65R and .44 Magnum) are based on sometimes years of research. So where the hunting calibres I used to use (30.06, 6,5x55 and .243).

I even shoot these loads into buckets of water to se which load or bullet has most restweight, best construction and penetration (yes I know it is not a test that will show how a bullet will reform in game but still it will show which bullet seems better then the other since the test is the same everytime).

I apreseate your help and work alot and I'll let you know what load I'll go for. As mentioned the cases will be Berdan cases. They should be very strong since they are manufactored by the army for use in pistols and machinepistols.

And YES I'll write down the load even though I'm using the last of my HS-6 powder. Next time it will be European powder and I fear you won't be able to help me in the same detailed way.

As Thropyhunter already figured out I won't go out testfirring a lot. I'll keep this ammo for a needed day, how ever I'll fire a magazine or two just to feel safe/happy if no misfunction accure. Also see where they hit and all this can be done through a chronograf (French benefite). Thanks alot.

If you can obtain European Lovex powder I can help you getting those worked up any time. See if you are able to get the Lovex *D 036* it is a fine grain ball powder that will typically charge .1 - .2 less than HS-6 powder for your 9mm loads.

The powders I'll be using in the future will be Norma (R1) or Vitavori.

Based on your great help the load will be 6.9 grains of HS-6 and the OAL will be what you rcomended.

Thanks

VV 3N27 is about the same if not the same as HS6.

ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide

Another reason to start at a low charge and work up is that you are using military brass which may be thicker and have less internal volume. You are also using a totally different primer system which may be hotter than then those tested. All this in a high pressure cartridge. None of the US test data or tests others have done, will be the same as what you experience with your own components.

Just something to think about.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I know but I'm still better off now then when I started.

How so? You are .1 grain less then what you wanted to start at.

Carry on. As you were.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Because I have recieved test results from Trophyhunter (thanks alot). Compared to what other write here and what I have discovered myself .1 grain less is the best advice I can get without testing myself. I know it seems like "no Big deal" and maybe it isn't but I'm happy and that is what counts (-;

My "concern" was I couldn't decide what load was best (for me) between 6.6 to 7.0 grains.

With no offense meant to Trophy Hunter, His test results will have no meaning to your specific reloads unless he used the same brass and primers. If he did, then my apologies.

Page #6 of the infamous Load Map

http://www.scribd.com/doc/139183978/...sa-LoadMap-9mm

As I said, carry on.

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Still Running Against the Wind

The results from Thropyhunter was the best advice I could have hoped for

And here is the result:

So the loads are done and tested. Looks and seems very ok. No sign of low or high pressure on cases etc. Precision seems ok as well. I also tested the 124 grains HP Hornady that I had made years ago just for comparison.

115 grains Hornady HP XTP
OAL 1.110
6.9 grains of HS-6
Muzzle Velocity in S&W Model 39 1.184
Muzzle Velocity in Glock 19 1.115

Still wondering why there was a difference en velocity in two autos with almost same barrellength.

124 grains Hornady HP
OAL 1.111
6.7 grains of HS-6
Muzzle Velocity in S&W Model 39 1.095
Muzzle Velocity in Glock 19 1.099

Almost same average muzzle velocity in both test weapons.

I tested some NATO standard 124 grains FMJ as well just for comparison.

The S&W had a muzzle velocity of 1.135 and the Glock of 1.131

All loads where fired from 40 feet (12 meters).

No doubt that the load (115 grains) is "spot on". Except from one "flyer" (bad shot) the precision is better then the "old" 124 grains HP.

I'm happy.

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	124grainsS&W.JPG (82.0 KB, 43 views)

Nice group with the Glock! Well done, that should meet your needs for it's intended purpose although I sincerely hope that's never called on for such purpose.

Different rifling.

Slight difference in barrel length can certainly make a difference. Some say around 100 fps per inch but that all depends on all kinds of thing also will depend on the sample size. How many of each did you shoot? A larger sample will yield better stats.

Glad to hear it works well for you.

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Still Running Against the Wind

10 rounds of the 115 grain and 5 of the other. What puzzeles me is that every other load (the 124 FMJ and the 124 HP) has almost same velocity in the Glock and S&W. Only the the 115 grain was clearly different. Also the rounds fired in the S&W (again only the 115 grain) had somewhat large variation. From 1.102 to 1.286. Oh well sometimes what must just except that there are unanswered qustiones (oh by the way: "NO I didn't mess up any loads during reloading ).