I am new to reloading and am getting ready to start throwing powder. I have resized and deprimed my brass, cleaned it, and expanded the case mouth to accept the bullet. I figured I'd get some practice in by seating some bullets without primer and powder. I figured I'd use the dummy rounds for training. Experience was NOT good.

First of all, I have 150 grain lead round nose bullets. They feel very soft to me. I will be using plated at the least from now on, if not jacketed.

I screwed up the first few big time. Seating die was WAY to low. Manual says to screw in it till it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns. Only problem is there is no numbers on the die to determine if I turned it 3 full times, and the first time was way low and it smashed the brass. I figured out to use the "E" in the "Lee" stamped on the die as a reference point. OK, lesson learned.

So i start seating bullets and adjust the depth with the knob on top. MAX OAL is 1.440. I'm getting very close, but the bullets look totally different, even though they are the same length. Here's a pic:



No, I did not trim my brass. I did chamfer them using the included tool. Nearly everything I have read says trimming pistol brass, especially revolver brass, is rarely necessary. They are a mix of .38 Special brands. I guess maybe I have to sort the brass and keep the sizes together. Didn't know there would be a difference in size of brass.

OK, the real disaster was the crimping. I am using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. The manual (and videos I have watched), say to screw the die in until it just touches the shell holder and back out the crimp knob all the way. Then put a shell into the holder and raise the ram into the die. The screw the crimp knob all the way "until you feel it touch the bullet", and then screw 1/2 turn more for light crimp, one full turn for medium. Only problem is I did not "feel" the die hit the bullet. I just kept going until it stopped, which was all the way down.

I don't mind trashing some brass and using the bullets, but up until now, everything was rolling along nice and smooth. Today has me second guessing whether I should have gotten into reloading at all, although I am not ready to give up.

Do you have the LEE manual? If so it will save a lot of typing. Go to page 75-76. It explains setting up the die better than what comes with the dies, If not, let me know and it will type it out.

Just use a Sharpie marker and put a line on the die body and the seating stem knob. Then you can determine how many turns.

The FCD is simple to set up but lets get the regular seating die first (it also will crimp)

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Still Running Against the Wind

Did you flare the case mouth just a tad when you resized?

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Bill
Dis B. Leaf

The easiest way to set dies to about what you need is to use a factory loaded round to get in the ballpark. Then you can try one and adjust as needed. If you are going to use the factory crimp die, then your seat/crimp die should be set to just seat. The body of the seat/crimp die does the crimp, while the stem controls seat depth.
Adjust body first, then stem. Be sure you flare after sizing before you try to seat.

If you can get someone to mentor you, it will save you a lot of guessing. Also, NRA loading classes are available.

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Science plus Art

No, I do not have the manual. I am using the Hornady press with the Lock and Load bushings. I will mark the bushing and the die the next time. Using the "E" in the Lee stamped on there was a pretty good indicator, but a mark would be better.

One thing I did notice is very often on the first seat, I would get resistance and kind of have to force it a bit. That can't be good for the brass. What do you make of the different length brass? Something to deal with by sorting the brass?

Yes. Testing it by putting a bullet in to make sure it would seat.

Something with the case length looks odd. Can you post a picture of the head stamps for those three cartridges?

The case length should be the same for all three, but it doesn't look like that. The one in the center looks short and even the bullet profile looks different.

From left to right:

R-P .38 Special

Federal .38 Special

Federal .38 Special

I agree something is up with the case length. Didn't expect that.

Use as micrometer and measure the base of the bullet. 150 gr. is not a real common weight for .357/.38 bullet. I have gotten these out of spec. and there is nothing you can do cept melt them down or such.

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Bill
Dis B. Leaf

Setting the seating die

With a sized and flared case in the holder,Raise the ram to the top. leave the lock ring loose

Screw the whole die in until it stops on the case mouth (hold the press lever down so it does not move) The die is now set with NO crimp. If you want it to crimp turn it 1/2 turn more. But don't as you are going to use the crimp die (yes folks do not like it but use it for now)

Back out the seating knob on top untill you see threads, Now put a bullet on the case and raise the ram. It should be real long. Now keep turning the top know a little at a time and raise the ram untill you get the COL you want.

Done, if you are going to use the FCD which you should for now as it's easier to adjust and you will not have to change your seating die.

Once you have the bullet seated to the correct length.

FCD

Without a bullet in the holder. Raise the ram and screw the whole die until it hits the shell holder Tighten the lock ring.

Now back out the top knob. Put the loaded round into the holder, raise the ram and screw down the top knob until it stops on the bullet. Now lower the ram and turn the top knob 1/2 to 3/4 turn to crimp. Raise the ram you will feel it size and needed and crimp.

That's it. My 2 fingers are bleeding!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks for taking the time. I will try it now. As for the FCD, the issue I had was I did not feel the die touch the bullet. And the bullet is up in the die so I can't see it touch. But I'm gonna go try a few more right now.

Any time.
The bullet has to be seated correctly before the FCD will work or you can "feel" it touch. It will just stop . Not much to feel

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Still Running Against the Wind

looks like a 38 special between a pair of 357 mags to me.
It could be worse, you could be reloading for 45-70 and run into the brass Hornady used for the FTX loads.
in my case, the die is nearly contacting the shell holder when setting a crimp, the shorter leverevolution brass means I have to back the die out and set the round to be crimped on top of the shell holder.

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it just needs more voltage

I see a ring around the middle brass a third of the way up that's missing from the right one. Perhaps, its from a different batch. Could a previous owner tried to trim it but trimmed it too much?

In your photo it looks like the outer two cases are 357 magnum and the middle one is 38 special. 38 special max length is 1.155" with a trim length of 1.145". 357 magnum max length is 1.290" with a trim length of 1.280". This according to Hornady 8th edition. I would recomend that you measure and sort your brass, and don't relay only by headstamp.
Be safe, and take your time.
Madd Matt

OK, tried it again and better, but I have a few more questions:

You said when setting the seating die, to put a flared and sized case in the holder and raise the ram, leaving the lock ring loose. Screw in the seating die until it stops on the case mouth, now the die is set to no crimp. At this point, I should tighten the lock ring on that location, correct?

Back out the seating knob until I see threads, then raise the brass with bullet and adjust the knob until I get to my seating depth OAL? How do I lock in that setting? It's real sensitive. Most of my rounds came out 1.432-1.434. The maximum OAL is 1.440.

As for the FCD, I place the seated bullet into the holder and raise it, then screw the die until it hits the shell holder or the top of the bullet? If it's hitting the shell holder the whole bullet is up in the die and I can't see it.

To set the crimp, back out the top knob and put the loaded round in the holder, the raise the ram into the die and screw down the top knob until it hits the bullet. Now, when it hits that bullet, there is NO WAY to get beyond it, so I turn until I physically cannot turn it any more? Cause I get a bit of resistance as I screw on the top nob, but I'm going through that until it physically stops?. When it hits the bullet, lower the bullet from the die, and turn 1/2 to 3/4 to crimp, right?

Here are the completed rounds. Look much better and I can see the crimp.



I really don't like the lead rounds. Seem very soft and I imagine will badly lead the barrel, but I have a Lewis Lead Remover. I think I seated the bullets a tad low. Assuming these were live rounds, you think they'd be good to go to fire?

I checked that. They are all .38. The brass is mostly factory stuff I have fired over the years, but I recall buying a few boxes of factory reloaded ammo over the years so they might have a few reloaded ones in there.

The SIZING die is screwed in until it touches the shell holder. A carbide die is then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, whereas a steel (only) die is screwed in another 1/4 turn for an interference fit.

The SEATING/CRIMPING die is set using an empty case or factory loaded round. Back off the seating post (the center of the seating die), and with the ram in the full-up position, screw in the die body until the crimp ring contacts the crimped case, if you wish to crimp. If you use an empty case, the die should touch the case, plus another 1/2 turn.

With a case and properly seated bullet, raise the ram and adust the seating post until it just touches the bullet. I keep a dummy round (painted, no powder, no primer) in the die box for this purpose.

Make fine adjustments to OAL specifications by seating a bullet and measuring the length. Start long and work toward the spec. In a progressive press, have a cartridge in each station before making the final adjustments. The press can "grow" 0.003" or more under load.

The expansion die (if any) should be adjusted so that there is just enough flare to seat the bullet about 1/16" by hand. Typically you can feel the flare, but not see it. Too much, and the case may split or stick in the seating die. Too little, and the bullet may be shaved, or start crooked and damage the case.

If you adjust the seating die as you describe, you will grossly over crimp the case (e.g., the short case in your photo), or completely crush the case.

Yes, I meant sizing die. I know to back off the seating die three turns or the case will be crushed. I learned the hard way.

I do not want to use the crimp function on the seating die at all. Rule 3 states to screw the seating die down until it touches the case mouth, and the die is now set to no crimp. Correct?

As for the FCD, he states to raise the ram with the round until the die touches the shell holder. I just wanted to clarify that.

I'm still going to do a lot of reading and watching videos before I throw powder. I'm not looking to make any errors.

Correct on the seating die. If you screw the die in anymore it will begin to crimp.

Incorrect on the FCD. Raise the ram , screw in the die only (no case) until it hits the shell holder. Lock the die ring.

Now put a seated round in the holder and screw down the adjustment knob (on top) untill it stops (hits the bullet) now back off the ram a little and screw the top knob 1/2 turn for a light crimp, 3/4 to 1 turn for a firmer crimp. If you have a cannelure on the bullet you will see the case crimp into the groove.

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Still Running Against the Wind

there could be something in there.
I have an old ideal mold that casts a 170 grain Keith type.
Using it in the wife's Henry big boy 357 rifle, I cannot load it, using the crimp groove in 357 brass. The OAL is just too long for it to feed.
If using a 38 case and the 357's OAL, it's perfect.
If that bullet was used in the reload, it would make some sense to trim them for production loading.

if you set em all out mouth up on a table, these will stand out pretty well so that you can cull them.

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it just needs more voltage

Your bullets have a cannelure (crimp groove) yes??

Seat them so the case mouth is just about even with the top of the groove. Just a tad nelo it (no need to measure) then use the FCD and it should trun the case mouth (crimp into the groove) Your bullet groov may vary from this.

It should look like this (45 Colt) SWC Bullet from a long lost member.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Not like yours. 8-9 lines in the bullet is all.

Just ran another one. Getting easier. One thing I do notice is when I raise the brass with the bullet in it I usually encounter resistance the first time and have to kind of muscle it in there. After that, they seat smooth. Still don't like the overall "look" of the completed round. maybe it's the round nose lead I am not used to seeing. I set the crimp to half turn and the brass is crimped, but I'm thinking it could use a hair more. Just doesn't look seemless like a factory round.

All else aside, if the OAl comes into range, IF these rounds were live, do they look good enough to fire? Not looking to drop powder for at least a month, but I don't want to keep wasting brass and bullets on dummies.

By the way, the guns that will be used are a Ruger Service Six and a S&W 65. Both 4" and both .357 Magnum.

Just ran another one. I see why I was getting resistance. Expanded just a hair too much. One thing I did learn is that when I used the crimp die, the bullet was seated just a bit more as it crimped. So I'll leave it a hair long before I go to crimp.

As long as your 38 special brass is no longer than 1.155"
you are good to go...........
if you are shooting the ammo in a 38 cylinder.

There is something very wrong with the picture of the three "38" loads.

OK on your bullets those are all lube grooves so I would seat up to the middle of the top groove. Were did you get those? Look like bullets cast in a LEE mold?

First off, you do not want the seating die to crimp for 2 reasons, one, when you do it will seat the bullet.05" more than what you set it at and you have to compensate for that. 2) you are going to use the crimp die so no sense in crimping twice.



Set the seating die just as I explained. With no crimp.

The FCD will crimp it. If you mean you have the FCD knob turned 1/2 you can turn it a full turn, you can not over crimp with the LFCD so turn it some more and you will see the difference .

When you raise the seated brass into the FCD, yes you will feel resistance sometimes a lot as it is post sizing the whole round you will feel this with lead bullets not much at all with FMJ. It is supposed to do that. Then you will feel it crimp.

Here are some 357 Mag. We were experimenting with trimmed to length brass (the nickel ones) and non trimmed brass to see how much difference it would make in where the crimp fell. The trimmed are more exact but the untrimmed are only a few thousandths difference so to me it make no difference for general shooting. Some loaders trim straight wall brass others do not. I don't. I hate trimming rifle brass!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yeah, I screwed those ones up big time. Does the second picture with the six rounds look better?

The resistance was when I was initially seating the bullet. I figured it out. Expanded just a bit too much. Lessened it and it slides in easy now.

Did what you said on the no crimping while seating. Measured the completed round and it was 1.438". Max OAL is 1.440 so I was OK. But when I crimped it with the FCD, it seated it a bit more and now the round is 1.432.


I got the bullets at a reloading shop that sells a lot of Lee, so it was probably done there. Don't really like them and will not be shooting lead any more. But they were all they had and I needed some bullets. As for the spot in the groove, I'm kind of ignoring those and just using my calipers to get to the right length.

Your flare or expanded mouth should be just enough that th bullet barely starts to go in. Any more is too much.

As long fits the cylinder and if these are 38 spl shot in a 357 the COL will not matter.

The FCD will not change the COAL. After you seat the bullet, there should still be the flare, measure the COAL What is it? Now use the FCD it should not change??

If the seating die is set to crimp it will push the bullet in a little and change you OAL.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I just ran another one. The FCD sure does change my OAL. I seated one at the OAL was 1.436, just under the Max OAL of 1.440. I put the crimp die in and figured I'd give it a better crimp, so I turn the top knob since I figured it wasn't gonna over crimp, and the bullet is now WAY low, and the length is 1.366.

I learned a lot so I don't mind wasting the bullets and brass.

kbm
Rule is a great coach - seems like progress is being made.

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion, but if you have decided not to trim, you still should measure case lengths after resizing, especially with a group of mixed brass. If they fall within the minimum to maximum lengths in your manual - you're good to go.

Shooting 38 special cases in a 357 also gives you some additional flexibility.

good luck, have fun and be safe

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

Will do. How do the completed rounds look in the pic with 6 bullets? Is it my imagination or does the crimp not look crimped enough? And what do you make of the fcd further seating my bullet?

Good advice from Rule3, stay with it...practice will make perfect.

I see that you are LE - all the advice here is good but will only confuse you with facts you may not understand. Ask around your department to see who reloads and invite them over to see your new equipment. You know the rest.

That's weird. The first photo looks like two 357s and a 38 special

Sent from my Lumia 1520

Your picture in post #16 appears to have NO crimp at akk? Maybe a better close up picture?

Something is not right in the factory crimp die. It does not further seat a bullet.

Re do the set up on it.

Back out the top knob untill you see threads. now loosen the entire die and unscrew it a bit (up)

NOW, raise the ram all the way up with no case in it. Now screw the whole die down until it touchs the shell holder. Tighten the lock ring without moving the die.

Now put a seated UNCRIMPED round in the shell holder

Raise the ram up (you should not feel anything) now screw the top adjustment down until it touches the bullet.

Back the ram down and turn the adjustment nut 3/4 turn.

Raise the ram, the case should crimp. If you want more crimp turn the adjustment another 1/4 turn (total of 1 whole turn).

I need another nap!

Geese I should have thought of this earlier!!

Adjusting Lee Factory Crimp Die - YouTube

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Still Running Against the Wind

Retired. And nobody I did work with reloaded. Why bother when you get factory ammo for free?

I just watched that on the lee page. Will run another few tomorrow. So the six I did in the pic look Uncrimped to you too?

Bright side is I learned more this afternoon then I did in a month. I love this forum! I'll mark those 6 rounds and use them for dummy rounds in practice

Rule knows much more than I do about the Lee FCD. I use the Redding Profile crimp die on my 38 special and 357's. Its similar, but not exactly the same. I use the Lee FCD on my 9mm - but they're taper crimped.

Can you get a clearer picture of the bullet? like the picture of your six completed rounds That picture turned out clear. I know sometimes its tough getting close up pictures.

If you just sit it on top of a case, not seated, at that same distance and same lighting - it should show up clear enough.

or give the name of the bullet caster - sometimes their websites have clear pictures of their bullets.

That'll help see where the crimp is hitting on the bullet.

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

Actually the 1st picture on your first post the middle round looks crimped, maybe to long but crimped??

Were are you getting the COL from, is it the same shape and weight bullet.????

Those are some pointy RN so I am not used to seeing them. The RN that I have are not as long looking and only have 1 crimp groove.

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Still Running Against the Wind

It's all here.

First the pistol sizing die

Then powder Though expanding die (for flaring?

Pistol seating die

FCD

Single Station Die Adjustment - Lee Precision

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Still Running Against the Wind

Already downloaded them and will go through the process again tomorrow. Only issue I seem to be having is with the FCD. Thanks for all your help!

I'm getting the COL from the Lee pamphlet that came with the dies. The bullets I have are 150 grain LRN and none of the other manuals I have have data for that. Guys here told me to go with 158 grain data for it.

The COL then is pretty much meaningless. If it is not the exact bullet than COL will never be the same. As I mentioned somwhere in this thread it will not matter as it's a 38 in a 357 so it will fit. Just stay at or below the MAX SAAMI spec.

Somewhere around 1.460 or so. The max is 1.550 so you should be fine Whatever the crimp in the top groove of that bullet comes to. You picked a tough odd ball bullet to start out with

COAL will matter much more in semi autos more so in small high pressure rounds like 9mm and 40 SW.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yeah. That's all the guy had. And I'm using red dot powder and there's not a lot of data for that powder with the bullet I have

You've been a huge help. Thank you. Be Alliant site lists a 158 grain LSWC bullet. For my first reloads I'd like to keep with the data. But I prefer plated bullets. Is there a 158 grain plated bullet that would use the same data as a LSWC bullet? Or do you know of a place that would have actual data for my 150 grain rn bullet?

Your bullet is not a L Semi Wad Cutter it is a Round Nose so the COL is not at all the same. So you are using a meaningless number.

Yes, you can use the powder data for a 158 gr bullet that is fine. Use the start load.

The COL is gonna be a "guesstimate" I have looked for data on that profile and found nothing.

Post a picture of some finished test (no primer.powder) rounds when you can.

The finish round should look kinda like these:

Federal American Eagle Ammo 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose Box

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Still Running Against the Wind

I know what I have right now is not a LSWC. I went to the Alliant site and it has data for that round. But I prefer plated over lead. Berry's has 158 grain FP rounds. I'll look through my manuals and see if I can find some data on that bullet with red dot.

I have a box of American eagle 130 grain round nose jacketed. Should I measure that to get an estimate. And I feel like an idiot for thinking he oal would be the same for my rn bullet as what the data was for a LSWC. Such an obvious mistake. Don't know what I was thinking

Just found a 158 grain LRN bullet listed in the hornady book. Lists a oal of 1.455. But it doesn't give red dot as a powder for it.

Most lead bullets have a cannelure that is used for the correct OAL of the bullet.........
but some do not like the last bullet in this picture.....
that is a 158gr LRN.

This is where the maker of the bullet gives the OAL or you need to look up the "Standard" OAL for
this type of bullet in one or more loading manuals.

I load the 158 LRN at 1.55" for my 38 special loads...... but it can be loaded shorter if needed.