Does anyone sort their cases by weight and if so by what weight variation do you sort them?

For rifles, I loaded for a guy that insisted on it. When I tried it on my rifles, I could not see any improvement over everything else I did for accuracy. I was only shooting out to 100yds, the other guy was shooting further, so that might make a difference.

For handguns out to 100 yards, never tried it as I don't think it would help.

I don't bother. Unless you are doing very, very precise shooting it simply isn't worth the effort.

another waste of time for ME

never saw a difference even when I shot Palma matches back to a thousand yards.

Go for it if you feel that it does good for YOU.

Randy

Most that do................

also weigh their bullets and the quality of tips, can's, blemish,
flash holes, centered, reamed, beveled, trim to size etc. etc......

Why just do one thing if you are going for the max............?


I think proper breathing, trigger control and stance will do more for a shooter than a bunch of brass that is all the same.

For shooting 300 yards it may make a difference. I turned the necks on some brass to uniform them in a 308. The rifle is not accurate enough for it to matter. I turn the necks on my 22-250. I don't know if that helps, but I feel better.

David

I find it to be a waste of time as long as the brass is from the same lot. However, I once weighed multiple head stamped .30-06 brass and got over a 30 grain weight variation. You can bet that amount of variation would make a difference.

If you are going to weigh cases, they need to be Sized, trimmed to length and necks need to be within a couple thousandths of neck thickness. You may as well do primer pockets and flash holes. They also need to be very clean (inside is more important than outside, because of fouling). At this point, most sorters go with a 2 or 3 grain window. There use to be a guy that sold WW virgin brass with no other prep but weighing to 1 grain, in lots up to 1000. Cost: 14 cents over brass price at the time. Nosler sells very good match quality rifle brass in 1 grain wight range per box (50 or 100). I bought 100 221 Fireball brass and 50 of their loaded ammo from Midway 3 years ago. After the first firing I weighed them, all the same to 1/2 grain.

It can't hurt to work up 100 brass and see if you get any better results. Ivan

Thanks for the input. I was talking to a friend who does the 100, ??, and 600 yard matches with various rifles. I admit that he is very fanatic, but he has some AR 15s that group well under 1/2" at 200 yds. If possible I'd like to get mine shooting at 3/4" or under at 100. I'm just weighing my options right now. Probably will go with a full floating barrel as one of my first options

Consistency in everything will help improve groups. Bench rest shooters are known for that. Interior volume of the case. All the other things mentioned above.

If you do not have a rifle/trigger that can produce those groups then is it worth it?? The person pulling the trigger has a lot more to do with it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Separate cases by weight? I don't separate cases at all. I can see some concern for professional target shooters as they tend to be OCD about every component. Frankly, any minute difference in accuracy sorting cases might make would be negated by me.

Unless you are top level competitor in BR and have the skills and equipment to match, it is a waste of time.

I do not weigh my brass, but I do try and keep within the same brand/lot for critical accuracy. When I am taking a shot at a Prairie Dog at 500 yards, I want to know just what my rifle will do. I do prep all my brass, flash hole, primer pocket, trim length. Both my 22-250's will shoot into 1/4" at 100 (from a bench rest). I also individually weigh every load of powder that goes into that brass.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I think the OP question needs to be defined more. He did mention further down about an AR.

So for those who are long distance (or short) rifle shooters and strive for one hole groups then all the little tips and tricks are proabably a benifit if not for the ammo but as a mind thing

For regular handgun range blasting, no I would not waste my time.

As close is I come is in a varmint bolt action 223 I use the same neck sized brass. A good bullet and RCBS powder measure. It shoots better than I can.

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Still Running Against the Wind

There are a lot of things I'd put before weighing brass, which is the last thing I'd do in an attempt for accuracy. As others have stated it's not just about the ammo, the rifle, optics, optic mounts, shooter, rests, ammo components, loading equipment, loading technique and etc. must all be considered.

Your 3/4" group at 100yds should be easy enough to obtain without having to weigh the brass.

The issue with just weighing the case, there are several ways to change wt; thicker/thinner brass, thicker/thinner rims, thicker/thinner brass in just the head area, larger/smaller extractor grooves. Internal volume is a better measurement. If all the headstamps are the same, weighing may offer some useful data, but if diff headstamps, wasting your time.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

When I look in the Sinclair catalog, I'm totally floored by the amount of reloading things available primarily for bench rest shooters, including those expensive micrometer adjustment bullet seating dies. It makes the Brownell's and Midway catalogs look like childs' play.

I would think that if you have a need to put your bullets into one hole, then pull all the stops as others here have said. It may be a waste of time but I don't think it will hurt.

My thoughts: If it gives you more confidence in your ammo, go for it. However, for your AR, a free floated upper would be step one. Step two would be a better trigger. Step three would be consistent reloads with a real bullet, (My rule of thumb, if you can't get Sierra MatchKings to shoot, you've got rifle issues). I think you'd have to spend an awful lot of money on an AR to get it to the point where you could even tell the difference in weight-sorted brass.

-Klaus

Bedding is a very interesting subject.........

Full glass, floating can work with or against a rifle..........
and the type of bedding around the bolt action (other) also
has a lot to do with accuracy. Many years back they started inserting Aluminum plates to stiffen the stocks for better accuracy...........to even muzzle brakes.

Lots of cans with worms in them to try out.

It's just money...................

The standard by which you define accuracy, has a lot to do with what it takes to achieve it. Banjosam has set a goal of 3/4" at 100 yards (3/4 Minute of Angle or MOA) for now and is probably looking at 1/2" at 200 yards (1/4 MOA) as a long term goal and prefers to do it with an AR. Some AR's do that right out of the box (my Bushmaster that was made during the second assault weapon ban did that), others will need lots of tweaking. The whole point in weighing brass or even special prepping brass is to increase accuracy. I think we can also say, that we want to do that with the least expense and effort.

Look at the 3 main components of shooting rifles; Ammo, Rifle/sights, and shooter. Ammo is hard to get now days at any reasonable price, but you may be able to find some that shoots to your standards. The only way to find out is to buy several brands in different weights and shoot it to find out. Black Hills makes 2 lines of ammo; "New" (red box)and "Re-manufactured" (blue box), I use blue box. In each line they make about 20 to 30 loadings of 223 Rem./5.56 NATO. Figure out what bullet weight should work for the rate of twist of your rifle (1:12 stick with 45 to 55 grains, 1:9 up to 75 grains and so on) Usually 50 to 55 works good in AR's at these distances. Buy an assortment of 4 or 5 bullet types/weights and try it out. Most properly assembled AR's will shoot at least one into 1/2 or 3/4 MOA groups from a rest. (I had a parts AR, that at 50 yards the first shot was dead on the second was 9" high and the third was around 16" high, No matter how good the ammo was, it was not the answer to that gun's problems).

The rifle is left as is for starters. Make sure your sights/scope are installed correctly and secure. Cheep scopes and mounts make many decent rifles shoot poor! The only limit to the price spent is your budget. My AR has a 4.5-14 x 40 mm Adjustable Objective scope with steel rings. Both my bolt 223's have steel rings and bases and 6.5-20 A.O. scopes. Fine cross hairs help lots too. One other thing that is easy; don't have all kinds of accessories on hanging on your barrel.

Lastly the shooter. Have a stable bench or shoot from prone position. Use a stable bi-pod or rest. And make yourself as calm as possible. Partying all night before the shoot doesn't make for good target groups. If your on the range all day, drink plenty of non caffeine liquids and snack once and a while. Relax and have fun, you will shoot better.

2 weekends ago I shot with a friend who was using an AR in 223. He is a much better shot than me. Our closest target is 235 yards out. His AR (off a rest) was doing 1/2" groups, with peep sights and 1" at 400 yards with a scope. And to prove to some new shooters what can be done, 6" at 545 yards with peep sights. I wish I could say that his AR is better than mine, or that his 20 year younger eyes are the difference. But the sad truth is, some one is always a better shot on some days. The key is practice!

Buy the way the original question was, Will weighing the cases help you group size? In Bench Rest guns at 200 yards it makes a difference, of about 10 to 15 1/1000ths of an inch. Since the difference in first and second place often runs .005 to .008, it makes a big difference. To most normal people?, not so much. Ivan

Shooting being a mental game, ANYTHING that YOU truly believe makes a difference likely will. IMO I think if you sort the brass by brand/head stamp, and have them trimmed to the same length, that would matter more and the wt's would be very similar. A 2-3 grain wt variation in the same brand/length brass seems unlikely (but not impossible). Will your individual gun, your shooting ability, the distance of the shot. Be able to tell a difference???? Being pretty OCD myself do I weigh empty cases, NO. For a SERIOUS day of rifle shooting, I might sort the loaded ammo by wt, and keep them in batches that all weigh the same, it's also a good way to check for an over/double dose of powder. Consistency is EVERYTHING from shooting technique to the ammo.

If your friend can do that consistently, he should be signing up for a lot of competitions. There's money to be made at a national level with that kind of shooting.

My friend can and does shoot like that consistently. He also enters long range and sniper competitions, and does very well. However, winning "prize money" is nowhere enough to pay realistic bills. The only shooting sport that you can make a good living ONLY SHOOTING is trap. The best in ALL the other shooting sports, make their living as a rep or giving lessons or are on "The" team (Gun, ammo company, or military). David Tubb is perhaps the best multi sport rifle shooter in history and he makes his money selling shooting stuff with his name on it. So don't quit your day job. Many of the national champion shooters never get to do a single endorsement. My F-I-L is a 2 time national pistol champion in the 60's and 70's. He won matches, tournaments, and all kinds of championships (some individual and many team). In revolver competition only used S&W, and in 45 Auto only used Colt 1911's; He was well liked but was never paid to endorse any product. After he retired from the Police and Army Guard, Beretta hired him as a rep for a few years. But with Glock's storming the LEO gun world, that was short lived. The nation BR 1000 yard champ was the spokesman for Montana Extreme gun care products, you get to see him in a 2" square add in the back of a few gun rags, No big fame and riches there. This thread is about wanting to shoot better groups than you used too. That is THE noble goal for all of us. So use every legit trick to make yourself better and have fun. Should some fool country ever invade our land, we have something for them. Otherwise we just have fun. Ivan

I have weight sorted 22 rf for matches. I believe it made a difference. I sort cases by brand and lot for match. I don't weight sort but do see the weight differences between brands.

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Front sight and squeeze

Do you or don't you weight sort? First and last sentences seem to disagree.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I do for my best accuracy bolt rifles. But I can't say for sure that I have seen positive change as a result of doing so. But I also have worked to reduce case neck and bullet runout and other things as well.

For the second part of your question, this is taken from guidance on another forum and is what I use (the actual question was regarding cases that weighed around 100 grains). Logic seemed very sound to me. "Cartridge brass density is 8.53 gm/cc, according to Matweb. That means 0.853 grains, in identically trimmed and primer pocket uniformed cases, will represent 0.1 grains difference in powder space. Since pressure goes up exponentially with increase in powder charge, this is about like a 0.05 grain charge difference. Not usually a significant error. If you charge cases ±0.1 grains, then figure cases ±1.7 grains are roughly equivalent to that."

So basically I sort to 2% ranges and discard cases that are outliers. Generally for 100 cases, I sort them into two 50 round groups that meet my criteria.

I believe it is important to sort brass by caliber, beyond this I find sorting a huge waste of time. How I shoot at a 100 yd rifle range located in a "big trench" on a calm day means very little in the middle of a prairie dog patch with variable 30+ MPH winds.

A 4" group @ 100 yards won't get better shooting smaller distant targets. My 100 yard groups vary between 0.5" and 1.5" depending on caliber. I never earned any money shooting, but I enjoy pulling the trigger.

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S&WHF 366