I am reloading .38 spl with Lead semi-wadcutters (158gn), using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. The leading edge of the case seems to be just on the ridge forward of the canelure. My understanding is that "factory crimps" do not roll the edge into the canelure, and I'm not sure how to verify the depth of the seated projectile. Any guidance on this would be helpful. Thanks.

Have no fear.............

Light target loads may only need the belling of the case removed and maybe a touch more crimping or taper.

Others like to use a firm taper or a roll crimp that is just starting to roll the end of the brass over.

For maximum pressures/fps, I use a HEAVY roll crimp that is very pronounced.

You will learn what is best for your loads and weapons as you load and shoot.

Good loading.

You want to set the OAL so that the crimp WILL be within the cannelure. It doesn't matter what make of crimp die you use, standard practice for revolver ammunition is to always set the bullet to a length that places the crimp in the cannelure if the bullet features a cannelure.

BTW, the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Dies use a sliding swaging ring to produce the crimp just like any other standard crimp die. The ONLY Factory Crimp dies that use a Collet type design are the rifle dies and Special Order revolver dies. In addition because the Collet is made using a Spring Tempered Steel the Collet based Dies are NOT "Carbide".

Here is a picture that show the brass being crimped.......

"C" has the bullet seated too low for a correct crimp.
"D" is correct...............
but one can also have the bullet sticking out of the case just
a little more and still have a good crimp on the "Shoulder" of the crimping area.




c/o Rule3
Wait for it...wait for it.......
"Coming soon to your area............. ( Big Grin )

I have been watching A and B for 10 minutes now and still do not see any change? When do they crimp?

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Still Running Against the Wind

If you are using "cast" lead SWC bullets, they have a crimp groove, crimp into the groove, just below the top driving band, see Neveda Ed's photo example "D".
Swaged lead bullets have cannelure's for crimpimng into. Do not crimp above or below the cannelure or the crimp groove.
In revolver rounds like 38 special, the crimp groove/cannelure determine OAL. If the bullet doesn't stick out past the end of thr revolver cylinder you are good to go . Good luck.
Gary

The Lee factory crimp dies (FCD) for 38/357 provide a roll crimp if so adjusted. With a minimal adjustment (~1/4 - 1/2 turn) they essentially taper crimp, only removing any case flare/bell mouth.

You didn't say exactly what type of loads these are or the bullet's hardness but, as has been said, the degree of roll crimp in the cannelure groove is dependent on your load. A hard cast bullet & a hot load should get a heavy roll crimp. A light target load with swaged lead bullets require little more than a taper crimp, enough to remove any flare.

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Waiting for the break of day

It's my understanding that one function of a crimp in any ammunition is to keep the bullet in place while the pressure is building during the initial ignition. If you don't crimp your ammunition enough you may see a wider variation in velocity than desired. Yeah, this bit of information is from the Lee reloading manual but with smokeless powders being pressure sensitive in regards to ignition I have ALWAYS crimped my loads.

I almost wish they didn't print OAL numbers for revolver loads. The "proper" length is "it fits in to the cylinder". Seat your bullets so that the case mouth crimps in to the crimp groove, and don't worry about OAL.

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Pisgah

Its one if those "wait for it" things....It happens about 21 minutes in. Geez, no patience. A neener should go here.

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

I was under the impression that pressure testing was done with a specific OAL. Doesn't seating longer or shorter change the pressure?

dave-

Yes & no, revolver cartridges generally have a LOT more room than auto cartridges so the effects of different lengths are not as dramatic. Also generally you roll crimp revolver cartridges so OAL is determined by the location of the cannelure/crimp groove

That makes sense. In other words, the OAL listed is information about the testing process, not a recommendation? That would be good news for me.

Although I do review OAL listings for the 30-06 loads usually produced for my Garand, as a newbie revolver caliber reloader, I have not been paying any attention to the OAL listed in my Lyman 49th version reloading manual for revolver cartridge reloading.

Instead, the bullet seating die gets adjusted to place the edge of the case mouth in the center of the cannelure and then the round is crimped with the famous Lee factory crimp die as a separate operation.

Yesterday, I took my hand press to the range to try various crimp settings on a fresh box of reloads that had not been crimped. The test loads were crimped 5 rounds at a time and fired, each set of 5 with with a particular crimp. The greatest attention was paid to the crimp range starting at the often recommended half turn and ending with a full turn.

During yesterday's session, crimping seemed to improve the accuracy of the reloaded ammo compared with just barely getting the bell out of the cases. A full turn on the crimp die produced an extra flat section that made the crimp look excessive to my unpracticed eye. It seemed as if three quarters of a turn on the die provided the best groups with rounds fired, single action, in my 638-2.

Before doing any crimping, I used a sized case to determine the start of the adjustment "turn" on the crimping die, but there is plenty of room for error. Did I mention I am a real newbie at 38 special?!

As an added confidence builder, the crimp on the rounds crimped at three quarters of a turn looks a lot like the crimp on new Federal 38E commercial ammo. 38E is remarkably accurate in that snubby and fired 38E cases are my favorite for reloading.

The bullet in use was the Xtreme brand, 148 grain, plated, double ended wadcutter with a cannelure near each end. I used the Lyman 49th starting load of Bullseye powder. The position of the cannaleur varies slightly bullet to bullet, hence the decision to try for the middle.

I would very much appreciate comments from old hands on my possible foolishness . . . but it seems like a three quarter turn crimp is a winner for this load.

TucsonMTB, as you mentioned, small differences in bullets do affect the seating depth. Just try to adjust your die for the average between them.

On light revolver target loads like you were loading (with a fast powder) usually a light crimp in all that's needed. Some have said only removing the case flaring works best. Use which works best for you & your load/gun combo. Remember that plated bullets shouldn't get a heavy crimp (flattened case mouth) as the plating can be split & separate. A light crimp, or moderate at most, should be good for your plated bullets. Jacketed bullets with slow powder & heavy loads should always get a firm to heavy crimp, especially if used in a light weight gun to avoid bullet jump.

You can just use the already seated round to establish the starting reference point for your crimp adjustment. (I use a Sharpie to draw a line from the center of the adjustment knob to the edge & down the knurled surface to better visualize the adjustment) Unscrew the crimp knob a few turns, lower the handle with the ready-to-crimp round in it, then screw the adjustment knob down until it firmly contacts the round. Then raise the handle & turn the adjustment the desired amount. Crimp the case & adjust accordingly. I usually do this on a couple random rounds to get an average setting for all as the case's length (longer/shorter) will affect the setting.
.

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Waiting for the break of day

Thank you, Mr. BLUEDOT37.

Yes, my crimp die has also been subjected to the same Sharpie treatment.

However, the obviously useful concept of sampling several cases to ensure the best average initial setting did not occur to me.

Thank you for sharing that wisdom, sir.

I crimp every round with vice grips and they work fine.

Yeah . . . I am probably expecting too much from my reloads.



Good or bad, the 642-1 in my pocket can do this with the pictured factory ammunition.

If I ever have similar results with my own reloads, I will stop over analyzing every detail of the process.

In the meantime, the quest keeps me off the streets.

Just wanted to take a moment to thank all of you on your comments to my query. I successfully adjusted the Lee Factory Crimping Die and was able to re-crimp the entire lot without having to toss any of them. Thanks again for your help.

I super big thank you for that post and pic. I finally realized what i've been doing wrong with semi wad cutters all these years. I was so discouraged that i had only been shooting bullets with cannelures! I'm going to order 1k right now.

Every LSWC I have used has a cannelure. It is sometimes confused as just another lube channel. The variation in seating depth is likely due to variations in case length rather than variations in the same lot of bullets. Most of us don't trim handgun cases.

As a general rule, re-crimping is a bad idea because it can ruin the good case neck tension.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

The 148 DEWC is typically seated near flush with the case mouth, with the bullet just peeking out about a fingernail's thickness. No "crimp" required. Just remove the "flare." Remember you've got nearly the whole bullet's length of bearing surface between the bullet and the case. Great neck tension. That bullet isn't gonna move until you fire the round.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

The bullet has a crimp groove, so that's where my crimp goes, regardless of OAL. I use a Lee FCD, with a 1/2 turn for a mild crimp, been doing it that way for years, never a problem.

Well heck;

while we are at it I might as well post a picture of a factory Remington 148gr loading and two of my reloads that I shoot.

The BB on the right has a minimum crimp to just remove the belling, since that is what my revolver likes for accuracy.

Enjoy.

Ed
What bullet aremyou using in the middle load?