I did a search in this forum and found many people using it in .357, but I was hoping for some input before I try. I have never used 4227 in a handgun cartridge so i would like to start near the bottom. One of my speer books lists 10.7 grains as the starting charge. Any comments?
Thanks as always,
fuzzy

I think you should let us know what bullet you are considering before we give 10.7 grains of anything the thumbs up or down! (sorry, it was there and I had to take the shot

I recently tried it for the first time in a .357 Magnum. I loaded a batch for my Rossi 92, I used 15.0 grains, with a Speer 158 gr. JHP, and a CCI#550 primer. It grouped just under 2" at 50 yards, with no high pressure signs. That load was still a ways from the max listed.

I tried it in my 2.5" 19-5 also. I actually took first place for the month of June in our very own internet snubby match, with that load, in the 10 yard category. My best group was 2.10", and that was for 10 shots at 10 yards, offhand.

I'm already sold on H-110 for my .44 Mag bear busters, so I'll be using IMR-4227 exclusively for my full power .357 loads from now on.

Yes, more detail please.

The 140 grain Hornady FTX is 11 grains to 13 grains on the IMR website.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

They are obviously erring on the side of caution!

Speer #14 lists (for a 158 gr.) 15 as a starting load, and 17 as max.

Hornady's 4th Edition lists 14.9 as starting, with 17 as max, with the 158 gr. bullet.

That's why I started at 15. I could bump it up a tad, but I got such good results initially, I don't see any need to.

4227 is a good powder in .357 , and magnum-ish revolver ctgs generally. The max loads will be somewhat slower than 2400 or 296 , but still magnum class. Not withstanding the light bullet/ heavy bullet , fast powder/ slow powder dolklore , I have used 4227 with 125 jacketed in .357 , and gotten sub 1in groups @ 25yds.

If one is conversent and comfortable to discuss load density , I have a prefered aproach to initial load , that usually works well enough to declare sucuess. - More or less standard wt bullet for the cal , 90-95% load density of 4227 . No hard and fast rule on primers. Near 100% loads with std to heavy bullets usually work fine with standard primers. if showing signs of inconsistant ignition ( typically lighter bullets , or low end loads ) they try magnum primer to see if helps.

Oh , it will be accused of being "dirty" . Just clean your revolver every 2-300 rounds , and enjoy the accurate , and reasonably powerful loads.

IMR4227 will be dirty when used at start charges or just above, but it still performs well. I find it to be a good alternative to H110/W296. Not quite as much maximum velocities, but very good accuracy. Very similar to 2400. Like H110/W296 it likes a firm roll crimp for best accuracy.

I did not do well with IMR 4227 in my 686 6" .357 Magnum revolver, for some reason.

A compressed load of it gave only 1290 fps with a 110gr Jhp
a 125gr Jhp got only 1230 fps and a full load with a 158 XTP
went across my screen at 1274 fps, just beating my Unique powder load.

You may have better results.......... good luck.

OK, I screwed this up royally. Thank God I still have not made big mistakes at the loading bench. Please forgive me. For starters the bullet I meant to list is a Remington 140 grain JHP. Also, the 10.7 grains I listed was the Blue Dot load I was using the previous day. What I should have said was that my speer #13 book lists the starting load as 17.2 grains. Now, I will go back and read the more than kind responses that I do not deserve.
fuzzy

Holy pierced primers Batman!. I just checked the IMR website and this may be the biggest discrepancy I have ever found. The 140 grain Hornady is listed with a starting charge of 11.0 grains with a velocity of 1176 fps. Compare this to my speer book which shows 17.2 grains at 1153 fps. That's unbelievable. Then, the IMR site shows H4227 staring at 16.2 grains for a velocity of 1541. I am well aware that the two 4227's are not the same, but I was under the impression that they were very close on the burn rate table. How can this be so far off?
fuzz

The old Seer #8 does not show that powder for the little 140gr......

With the old Speer 146gr (not made now) the manual did show 4227 (no H or IMR) starting at 1184 and the top load was at 1329 fps. 2400 hit 1428 with a maximum loading with Unique pushing 1404 fps with its maximum loading.

1350 fps is what the factory loads usually have now and it will do the job.

1296 fps out of my L frame 6" was very accurate and a nice load for lots of shooting that did not cause a "Flinch".

Later.

Thanks Ed, always appreciate your input.
fuzzy

check the hogdons website. i use 19 gr of imr4227 for a 125grain jhp. fyi. its a good powder for 357mag. ive not been reloading but about 6 months but i believe it to be good. i get good consistent velocities out of it per my chrony.

Ed answered my challenge before I could pose it. Even in situations where the velocity level might be described as 3/4 throttle , 4227 still tends to give good to excellent accuraccy.

Lowe, 19 grains sounds about right for the 125 grain bullet, based on speer's 17 grain starter for 140 grains.
Bigfoot, I am always looking for the milder of the magnum loads so I rarely go above 1/2 throttle (meaning half way between minimum and maximum charge. I have decided to load only a few rounds each starting at 11 grains and increasing by one grain up to 17 chrono'ing each round. We'll see. thanks again, fuzzy

If you want to save some powder in that Magnum revolver you can always use the little 38 special cases.......

In my 357 L frame S&W Magnum .......with 38 Special cases

a 125gr XTP with imr4227 hit 945 fps.........

a snug load of powder with a 158Lswc hit 888 fps....... neither loads were compressed.

However I also got about the same fps with 64% less powder if I switched to Red Dot in the 38 cases.

I tried it with the 125XTP, maxed it out per Hornady 7th edition, then backed down by 0.4gr. My practice is to work up to published maximum, then back off a few tenths. Accuracy from a 4" 686 was nice, almost no flash, muzzle blast far milder than that of 2400 or 296. I was, however, not impressed with the powder granules left in the chambers or those exiting the barrel/cylinder gap upon firing and stinging my cheek. That's a first. I used standard primers. No magnums available at the time. Is a magnum primer needed with this stuff?

I tried it in the .357 mag and didn't care for it. Like some others I
experienced lots of powder granules in the bore and chambers and
lower velocities than with other powders. My Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual lists 15.0-17.8 grs with a Speer 140 gr JHP. Doesn't
look like a good powder for reduced charges and I wouldn't start any
where near 11.0 grs if I were you.

The Hornady FTX has a design that limits usable volume in the 357 Magnum, especially if you trim the cases per Hornady's suggestion. As a result powder charges listed for this bullet will be lighter than any other 140 grain jacketed bullet and the produced velocities will be barely above what can be achieved with a 38 +P load. Currently I have 3 boxes of these bullets and consider it funds wasted. Because the performance tests posted on youtube indicate that it's quite fragile with a tendency to come apart on impact or fail to expand.

BTW, produced velocity numbers with the FTX in a full lenth case and 14.5 grains of H110. In a 6 inch Dan Wesson with a 0.0035 B/C gap it's 1150 fps. In a 20 inch 1892 Winchester it's only 1500 fps. Compare those results to what can be achieved with the excellent 140 grain XTP over 17.5 grains of H110 (1300 from 6 inch and 1900 from 20 inch) and you'll understand why I find the FTX disappointing. About the only positive for the FTX I can report is that they do produce good accuracy.

The manufacturer is REALLY erring on the side of caution with that one.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The 125 gr JHP with IMR4227 is the most accurate 357 Magnum load I have found. Work up a load in your gun. IMR4227 will generally give just a bit less velocity than WW296/H110 and 2400 but not much less, and that is not a hard and fast rule. I use Magnum primers with it. Check the Lyman book for loads. It works best at close to max.

IMR4227 was designed for pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44-40, 38-40 and 32-30. It burns clean in those rifles. It can leave some particles under the S&W extractor, so be aware of that. So does 296/H110 and 2400. It burns cooler than the others and seems to lead less with cast bullets. Wear seems less, too.

You can generally find a load for pistol rounds from the 38 Special on up. Not too great in the 38 Special, but it does work. I use it for lead 200 gr 38 Special loads.

Yes it can work with the 38 special but it is always nice if.......

you can open the cylinder, slide it down to the base of your car's radio antenna and...............

take it for a ride through the local car wash !!

My poor little snub nose needed a major cleaning job after loads with IMR 4227.
True there were accurate loads.......
just that there are better powders out there that will do the same job without all the mess and powder all over every thing.

Nothing wrong in the 357 magnum case.

I have used it a ton in my .357's and never had a complaint. It was especially good with 180's.

The reason for the difference is the BULLETS. The design of the Hornady FTX limits case volume, especially if you trim the cases to the recommended 1.240 inch length. Anywhere you look you will find the loads for the 140 grain Hornady FTX are lighter than those for the 140 grain XTP or any other 140 grain bullet.

Tips for those interested in trying out the FTX. First, don't purchase more than one box, because once you see the performance results on YouTube you will likely conclude there are better options. Second, ignore Hornady's recommendation to trim your brass. Yeah, loading to a 1.620 overall length is 0.030 inch over the SAAMI maximum but they function just fine in my Dan Wesson and S&W 357 Magnums. They also feed perfectly in my 1892 Winchester in 357 Magnum. This will allow a small increase in the powder charge but you'll still have a rather sedate load for a 140 grain 357 Magnum and the accuracy isn't noteworthy.

BTW, IMO the 140 grain XTP is a much better choice and it will produce 1 inch groups at 50 yards with the correct powder and charge weight. Note, 1875 fps from a 20 inch 1892 using 17.5 grains of H110.

Interestingly I just loaded up some 158 SJHP Zero bullets using IMR-4227. I am testing 15.5, 16, 16.5 grains in my 18" Marlin 94C and my 20" Rossi 92 SRC

If I get out tomorrow I'll let you know how they do but it looks like the weather may not cooperate for a couple days.