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Old 09-05-2014, 12:16 AM
jmitch42 jmitch42 is offline
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Default first new load test day today

so i finally got a chance to head out to the range with an a few new loads i did (pretty new to realoading, so a lot is new).
first up was the .45 acp in the ruger sr1911. i had shot some reloads that me and my brother in law had done before and they worked great. today i was testing the 3 other loads i had done for it too.
6.0 gr V-n340 under a powder coated 230 lead cast bullet-
gun loved these just like the 5.8 gr of the same powder before. will probably stick to a lesser load since it felt the same and i will use less powder.
4.2 gr TG under the same bullet. had two FTF on the first magazine on the first and eighth rounds. not sure what caused them and had no other problems with that load. from what i could tell the recoil was a bit lighter and felt good to me.
4.4 gr TG under same bullet. same really as the 4.2 in that all but one this time fed fine and the gun ate the rest with no problems.
9mm with a shield using 115 gr plated from rainier:
had no issues using the 5.0 gr of V-n340 or the 4.0 gr of TG. felt a bit more manageable with the start load of the tightgroup, but otherwise no real difference in feel or reliability. then again, the shield hasn't had an issue with any ammo i have fed through it since i got it. love that gun
the big shock for me was the one i did for the .380 acp.
i did a start load of 2.6 gr of TG under a 100 gr rainier plated round nose. wasn't expecting much difference, but the recoil was like that of a .22. no kidding, it was crazy. i alternated a mag of factory and my loads to see and the recoil was a ton less with the reloads with no feed or ejection issues. loved it.

i know a lot of people talk about accuracy when the talk about new loads, but with how i shoot, all of the bullets are more accurate than i am, so i was just going off of reliability and function. loved the fact that i was shooting something i made and they actually worked.
thanks for tolerating a newbies low info range report, but i wanted to share.
james
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:02 AM
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Wonder what the minor feed glitch is in the 45.
I suppose you could back off the seating punch and run em through a crimp only cycle to see if it clears up.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:07 AM
jmitch42 jmitch42 is offline
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Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
Wonder what the minor feed glitch is in the 45.
I suppose you could back off the seating punch and run em through a crimp only cycle to see if it clears up.
how i have been doing all of mine is i seat without a crimp at all, then use the lee factory crimp die to crimp it then make sure it passes a plunk test. not sure what the issue was since it only happened on 2 out of 50 rounds. would love to know so i can fix it. just don't know much about diagnosis yes for sure.
thanks for taking the time to read.
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Old 09-05-2014, 04:08 AM
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First of all, grats on your first test run. Great, isn't it?

Re your 45ACP TG loads: You didn't describe the FTF. Assuming the pistol didn;t cycle cleanly and that you used the same OAL and basic press setup for these rounds as you did for your N340 rounds (except the powder charge), I'd suggest the issue might be low powder charges in those rounds.

EG, a half-grain variance from a 4.2gr charge is a lot more meaningful than the same variance off 5.8/6.0gr.

One way to test would be to verify (hand weigh) each (TG) powder charge to ensure you hit the target charge. Say test 20 rounds.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:30 AM
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(snip)Re your 45ACP TG loads: You didn't describe the FTF. Assuming the pistol didn;t cycle cleanly and that you used the same OAL and basic press setup for these rounds as you did for your N340 rounds (except the powder charge), I'd suggest the issue might be low powder charges in those rounds.
I think I would agree with low powder charge. I've had a few, not many, failure to get the slide all the way forward and locked using 4.4gr of TG with plated bullets in .45 ACP. I don't think I would even try 4.2gn. No problem, at all, with 4.5gn of TG.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:07 PM
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"i know a lot of people talk about accuracy when the talk about new loads, but with how i shoot, all of the bullets are more accurate than i am, so i was just going off of reliability and function."

Accuracy is irrelevant if the loads won't feed.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:12 PM
jmitch42 jmitch42 is offline
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First of all, grats on your first test run. Great, isn't it?

Re your 45ACP TG loads: You didn't describe the FTF. Assuming the pistol didn;t cycle cleanly and that you used the same OAL and basic press setup for these rounds as you did for your N340 rounds (except the powder charge), I'd suggest the issue might be low powder charges in those rounds.

EG, a half-grain variance from a 4.2gr charge is a lot more meaningful than the same variance off 5.8/6.0gr.

One way to test would be to verify (hand weigh) each (TG) powder charge to ensure you hit the target charge. Say test 20 rounds.
the FTF was just like what someone said in that the round was partially chambered (kind of slanted up), and the slide wouldn't go into full battery. drop the mag and it went into battery and worked fine.
the low powder was my first thought too.
i actually do weigh each charge and trickle it up to right where i want in the 505 scale. part of the fun of it for me. def takes longer, but love the precision of it.
i will probably keep it at the 4.4 range since i didn't have any problems with them. seems like that is part of load development.
appreciate you guys helping me learn how to trouble shoot.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:30 PM
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then ya have no setup issues.
it will likely be some runout in the powder charge.
this levels out some as you establish a good rhythm at the press.
TG is loved by some cause its often on the shelf, and hated by others for various reasons.

one thing of note is that powder coating is something of a structural material, which can mean an extra half tickle of crimp to overcome its resiliency.
I made a few guitar picks out of the stuff yesterday and have been jamming some heavy metal with them. they are holding up far better than I thought they would.
This stuff has some meat to it
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:05 PM
jmitch42 jmitch42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
then ya have no setup issues.
it will likely be some runout in the powder charge.
this levels out some as you establish a good rhythm at the press.
TG is loved by some cause its often on the shelf, and hated by others for various reasons.

one thing of note is that powder coating is something of a structural material, which can mean an extra half tickle of crimp to overcome its resiliency.
I made a few guitar picks out of the stuff yesterday and have been jamming some heavy metal with them. they are holding up far better than I thought they would.
This stuff has some meat to it
i was following that in that other thread. i had no idea it was that tough of a material. knew it was resilient on bullets, but that is pretty amazing.
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:45 PM
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. . . i will probably keep it at the 4.4 range since i didn't have any problems with them. . . .
Well, you're the only one who is on scene and should know best lol.

But you did report one FTF with 4.4

You didn't report your OAL. 4.4gr is Hodgdon's mid-range for .452 lead cast 230s and the COL they used was 1.200". The 4.4gr is the start load for .451 FMJ 230s. So it is possible (longer) COL and/or bullet diameter (narrower) variation could have led to lower pressure out of your particular 45.

So if you still get occasional issues at 4.4gr, you might benefit from (eg) 4.5gr or bringing your COL down to 1.200 (assuming that length will hand cycle in your pistol - it should) if you used longer.

GLHF!!!
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:15 PM
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Congrats on enjoying reloading and shooting test loads. That's what I enjoy most about reloading is getting to work up test loads and shoot them.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:22 PM
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Default It's a great day.....

It's a great day when the loads you've made yourself work like their supposed to. I was pretty wary when I first pulled the trigger on a reload. The only resource I had back then was the loading manual.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:53 PM
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i was following that in that other thread. i had no idea it was that tough of a material. knew it was resilient on bullets, but that is pretty amazing.
Neither did I till I did it.
I knew it had enough substance to take a form,and work.
I didn't think it would last through a full hour and a half set of hard driving heavy metal, and a church choir rehearsal.
Edges are just starting to get slightly ratty.
There's better things for this, but since it's not being used as directed in the least, it's kinda astonishing.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:25 PM
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Virgin reloading, Ahhh brings back memories. Congrats.
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Old 09-06-2014, 06:49 AM
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My data shows a 4.0/4.8 grain load range for titegroup with a 230 grain lead bullet, so your feed issues are most likely due to a load that doesn't produce enough energy to fully cycle the slide. Been there done that with my Ruger SR1911 CMD and stepping up the powder charge by 2 more tenths cleared up all of the misfeed issues.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:21 PM
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jmitch42, this is great!

I am a newby to reloading, and to shooting my first-ever semi auto, a M1991 Colt, having experience only in reloading and shooting revolvers.

I got to the range yesterday with 100 rounds of .45 made on my Lee turret press. I'd loaded some starting loads chronicled here several weeks back-

.45acp reloading COL questions

I had a failure to load on one round, and the purpose of that thread was to ask, (amongst other things) about COL.

Anyway, I was VERY happy with my results yesterday.

As that thread indicated, I loaded new ammo with my COL was set and held at 1.250", and I added a Lee factory crimp die to my turret. In addition, I "plunked" 100%.

I had 50 rounds of 4.5 gr. of TG under a 230 gr. LRN, and 50 rounds of 4.8 gr. 700-X with the same lead bullet. Both cycled beautifully. I was pleased.

I'm making my .45 range load preference for this bullet with the above 700-X, as it felt very near a factory ball round, and also had I scored on a 4# jug of it recently.

My impression of the TG was these rounds were a little hot, when I compared to a factory ball round. Indeed, for this 50, I used the Lee auto-disk drop with a .40 cavity. (This is supposed to drop a TG weight of .47, but it measured 4.5/4.6 gr.)

Anyway, I had to post this, as your experiences are similar to my own. I can tell you this- I never miss a thread on this reloading segment of the forum, whether it has anything to do with my stuff or not.

Last edited by Harley Fan; 09-06-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:29 PM
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Well, you're the only one who is on scene and should know best lol.

But you did report one FTF with 4.4

You didn't report your OAL. 4.4gr is Hodgdon's mid-range for .452 lead cast 230s and the COL they used was 1.200". The 4.4gr is the start load for .451 FMJ 230s. So it is possible (longer) COL and/or bullet diameter (narrower) variation could have led to lower pressure out of your particular 45.

So if you still get occasional issues at 4.4gr, you might benefit from (eg) 4.5gr or bringing your COL down to 1.200 (assuming that length will hand cycle in your pistol - it should) if you used longer.

GLHF!!!
good point. almost forgot about that one ftf.
the col that i used was 1.170 with a range of 4.2-4.7 of tg (from the lee cast manual i believe).
i see the 4.0-4.8 with a col of 1.20 in lee's modern reloading manual.
question though. if i used the 1.20 instead of the 1.17 even with 4.5-4.6 grains, wouldn't that still make it likely to not feed since it is longer? i do plunk test so i would still check it that way, but just curious.
thanks for the insight and comments all. i am truly hooked now that i have fired some working rounds i made.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:44 AM
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Two main ways a round that plunks doesn't feed: the OAL is wrong for the bullet profile, or the pressure is too low to cycle the slide correctly.

If the pressure is too low (eg) the slide doesn't go far enough rearward to properly grab the next cartridge and push it into the chamber. If the OAL is "wrong" (eg) the cartridge goes misaligned on its way up the ramp into the chamber.

In addition to "plunk", you can make a dummy round or two and manually cycle your pistol to check that your OAL will feed.

This is why I mentioned you didn't describe your FTFeed. It could be that 1.170 is borderline for your pistol, and variations to the low side don't feed. Not likely though, since you used the same setup for your other powder and they ALL fed OK. That sorta points us to powder charge.

Soooo . . . I'd just leave the COL where it is and increase the powder charge a tad if you continue to have isolated FTFs. Want to get rid fo ALL of them

Last edited by Twoboxer; 09-07-2014 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:37 PM
jmitch42 jmitch42 is offline
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Two main ways a round that plunks doesn't feed: the OAL is wrong for the bullet profile, or the pressure is too low to cycle the slide correctly.

If the pressure is too low (eg) the slide doesn't go far enough rearward to properly grab the next cartridge and push it into the chamber. If the OAL is "wrong" (eg) the cartridge goes misaligned on its way up the ramp into the chamber.

In addition to "plunk", you can make a dummy round or two and manually cycle your pistol to check that your OAL will feed.

This is why I mentioned you didn't describe your FTFeed. It could be that 1.170 is borderline for your pistol, and variations to the low side don't feed. Not likely though, since you used the same setup for your other powder and they ALL fed OK. That sorta points us to powder charge.

Soooo . . . I'd just leave the COL where it is and increase the powder charge a tad if you continue to have isolated FTFs. Want to get rid fo ALL of them
awesome. thanks mang. will work up some other rounds with a bit higher charges to see if they work better.
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