I've been working on some light loads for my wife in my 3rd gen 9mm with 124 grain SWCs. Today I tried 3.8 gr of Bullseye, which operated the slide fine but were still kind of raucous, at least for her. I'm thinking of dropping down to 3.5 grains of BE. Has anybody gone really low on this load?


Right now she likes .38 type loads in my 686 but I'm trying to branch her out a little.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

IMO if your wife likes shooting the M686 that's what she should shoot. If you "force" her to shoot a gun she doesn't like or recoils too much for her, she or anyone else will not want to shoot.

Sure it's good for anyone around the guns in the house to know how to safely shoot all of them once you show her and the rest of the family how to shoot them all, let her alone to shoot what she likes...

As for how light you can go, usually you won't stick a bullet in the barrel if the load is strong enough to cycle the slide. Go slowly and stop when the slide tells tells you to. Also, fast powders like Bullseye will produce snappy recoil compared to slower powders so if the have a slower powder available give that a try too.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

The real question is how hot can you get your wife to shoot?
Losing that battle ... ain't ya.

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it just needs more voltage

You/she may find the slow push of 147 grain loads using a light charge of bullseye are much more comfortable than the snap of the 124.

Using a medium range burn rate powder such as WSF, Unique, VVn340 will make a difference as well.

The ultimate cream puff load is 3.6 grains of WST with the 147 lead bullet of your choice.

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The American dream is alive

Certainly easier to get the gun to run with heavier bullets going slow. If the slide functions & locks back, then you are gtg. A reduction of one spring rate for your given pistol will help with reduced power loads.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I'm not even going to ask her to try it unless I can get a load that I know won't scare her. If that doesn't happen I don't have a problem with her just shooting the big revolver.

Thanks for the advice on how to make a load feel lighter. I have some Unique and PB I can use. I don't suppose Titegroup or Red Dot would be any less snappy than BE.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

1) Use slower powder

2) Use heavier bullet

3) Get a lighter spring

So let's say I'm using Unique and a 147 grain lead bullet. I'll check my books and see what comes up. The Alliant site doesn't have enough selection.

I recently got a Wolf standard replacement spring for the 5943. I was thinking about getting a lighter one and if the above doesn't do the trick, I'll order one.

I don't mind tinkering with this stuff to try to get it to work, that's what I like to do. She may just be a 'revolver girl' at heart. She does take to it without any coaxing.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Yes, I think Unique will change the feel of the recoil in a favorable way. Using a 124gr bullet over a 115gr bullet is good but I'm not sure changing to a 147gr bullet will help. While a heavier bullet will usually help there comes a point where physics takes over the the energy needed to move that bullet negates the saving in recoil buy using a heavy bullet. Of course it just might not push that limit so if you can't find a light load you like using Unique and a 124gr bullet by all means give a 147gr bullet a try.

Good luck...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

If your wife is like mine, I bet the problem is the grip on the 3rd gen S&W is too big for her. My wife tried handling several guns this year, and liked the S&W M&P the best. She shot the same loads as my 5906, and asked for them to be hotter in the M&P. I knew something was up with the grip on the 5906, when she didn't mind almost +P loads from my snubby SP101, but said the mid-range felt like they had more recoil.

Start with 4.0 grains of Unique, 147 of your choice loaded to 1.115.

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The American dream is alive

A 3rd gen S&W is hardly known for its massive recoil. I don't understand her problem when I see tiny ladies blasting away with .40s, .45s, and some of the big magums.

It can be done for sure with the right powder/bullet combo. My very small framed girlfriend loves to shoot my p226. I developed some 180 gr loads with vv n320 that are super accurate and soft shooting for a .40 S&W. They function perfectly.

Also, she has Parkinson's and has a difficult time cocking a revolver so I had to find stuff she could shoot out of the autos. I tried to get her to shoot my 22 but she insisted on a bigger gun haha. Pistol packin mama.

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Trucks and guns.

That's what I mean. With proper introduction they get to be some bad *** mamas. I'd like to see her shoot your .40. Sounds like fun!

That's a good solution for the Parkinson's. Something is giving me the shakes and my hands cramp badly often for little reason, sometimes when just holding a book. I'm trying to get to the bottom of that one. It didn't stop me from having a great day at the range though. At 10 yards with the semi and the revolver I shot 8 targets with groups I could cover with my fist. OK, I muffed a FEW shots, but 95% were right on.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I started my wife out with full house loadings, be it rifle, auto or revolver.
The result is a perfect understanding of what these things are.
There after, things are mellowed with a solid understanding of business and leisure loads.
If she needs to back me up, it will be with+p or full magnum loads,and she'll use them to effect.
What means far more than recoil, is fit and adaptation.

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it just needs more voltage

But hey, if it works for you that's great. When my Dad tried to get my Mom to fire his gun she threw it in the sand. Next thing my Dad was at the table with his cleaning gear. She never did fire the gun.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I definitely stand behind her while she shoots...she does okay with full loads but my reloads are more accurate and she likes that. It's hard enough for her to hit something with her tremor and muscle stiffness, let alone using sharp recoil ammo. You should see her shoot my buddys 500 mag. She is only 5 feet tall it's hilarious. She loves it but can't hit a damn thing with it and I have to cock it for her.

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Trucks and guns.

In a 3" 9mm Kahr with just 3.5grs of Red Dot I get...........

926 fps with a 115gr plated RN........

890 fps with a 124gr plated RN ......

Both shoot at under an inch with 5 shots at 10 feet with a rest
and stock iron sights, with 70 year old eye sight w/glasses.

You can go as low as 784 fps with a 115gr and lots of IMR4227 but...............
these powder puffs will have a stove pipe every now and then but they were accurate.

Just depends on the energy you pistols spring has, if these will work for you.

later.

We have women in the military. They do shoot for qualification.
Come to think of it. I taught more than a few ladies to shoot, and I have yet to have any do as described.

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it just needs more voltage

They aren't my Mom.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Perhaps not, but they are assembled in a similar fashion, as are the guns.
Theres the real problem.
Smaller hands and breasts versus equipment designed around larger hands and no breasts.

Long arm's are not that hard to overcome. In fact often times the ladies give you a clue out of the gate.
they tend to mount the long arm square to the body and adjust themselves into an awkward contortion to see the sights.
If allowed to fire a weapon of significance, these ladies will be found in the zip code behind them.

Whats happening here is she's trying to avoid blunt force to her breast. They tend to protect the girls like we do our endowment.

An answer to this, is to mount the gun square, then step into the target with the left foot.
This keeps the but of the rifle off the sensitive goods while the stock shoves it out of the way
Seen it work up through 12 Ga heavy slug loads.

Handguns exploit their smaller hands.
when we fire a pistol, the bore axis is fairly close to being in line with our forearm and the back strap rests in the web of the thumb.
Ladies, with their smaller hands, tend to rotate the gun to get their fingers forward to help engage the trigger.
This places the back strap against their thumb, which will get a bit wrenched in recoil, and she'll have trouble maintaining control of the pistol.

This one is harder to solve than with long arms.
She's already given you a clue about half the issue.
She favors the 686 over the autos, just as my wife prefers the 629 over the 1911.
In single action, the trigger comes back to where they can reach it comfortably, and maintain a proper grip, or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Been looking at a model 66 for my lady. the K frame works with her a little better than the N frame.
It's almost like S&W had the ladies in mind with the 66

Solve the fit, then recoil won't matter.

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it just needs more voltage

I found I have some accurate #7 which should be a good slower powder. My LGS only has one type of 9mm bullets, 115 gr XTP. They've got shelves of all kinds of bullets, but only one selection in 9mm. They never have any more than that, which I find to be pretty screwy. Seems like 9 would be as popular as anything.

I found some plated online for a good price but the shipping on 2 boxes of 100 was $16!

I guess I'll be shopping for 147 gr bullets.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I've gone all the way down to 3.3 of bullseye in .38 Super with 125gr LSWC(basically a 9mm with a slightly longer case)..

With a 6" slide and a lighter spring it runs like a champ. SOOO, with a smaller case, and light enough spring you SHOULD be able to run less powder. The only other thing I needed was a large radius on the firing pin stop (the rear lower corner of the slide that engages the hammer)

And consider this, 2.8gr, even in the still relatively huge cavity even WITH a flush seated 148 in the .38 special, will still run a model 52, and 1911s, at what? 700 or so FPS....

Remember, as long as its a locked breech auto, the slide cannot move rearward unless the bullet leaves the bore.

I have a WWII manufacture P-38 that I have been working up loads for that wouldn't batter the old war horse. I am using the Lee
358-105-SWC bullet. At 105 grains it should give the least recoil and reports of it working in 9 mm luger were encouraging.
Loaded up some with 3.6 grains of Red Dot. liked the load, accurate and shot to point of aim...but an occasional failure to completely go into battery showed it to be a tad light.
I had loaded up another batch with 4.6 grains of Red Dot, 100% reliable feeding in two different 9mm's.
I think the answer is going to be 3.8 grains of Red Dot and the 105 grain bullet.
I have noticed that "felt recoil" with the lighter 105 grain bullet seems less than with a heavier bullet, so you may want to invest $20.00 in a Lee mould and not have to worry about your limited supply. Lee also makes a 356-102-1R mould for 9mm, it has a round nose and weighs 102 grains. I use the .358 bullet because the old P-38 has a .357 inch size bore and I can use it in my 38 special. Something to consider.
Gary

If you check out bayou bullets you will find the prices on the product and shipping much cheaper.

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The American dream is alive

Very reasonable, ordered.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

FYI, xtreme has free shipping through the end of the month.

If your looking for lead 9mm, I've had great results from both Penn Bullets, and Missouri Bullets....

Missouri's 125gr LSWC, and either companies 147gr TC, are my go-to target bullets in all my .356 bore guns.

I really like both of those brands and all of my lead cast (which I am relatively new to) has come from them. I didn't mention that I wanted to try a plated or coated bullet because the indoor range I use doesn't have the greatest ventilation.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Go coated. We like range reports

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it just needs more voltage

If she likes shooting the M686, a load of 3.2 grains of Titegroup under a 158 grain RNL bullets is very mild, safe and accurate. Out of an L Frame she will be able to shoot as many as she wants or you can supply her with. 2.8 - 2.9 grains of Bullseye will also give you the same results.

I use 160 lead RN meant for the 38 Super in the 9mm for a light load. At one time was shooting 200 or so rounds a week. Needed an accurate, cheap load. Using AA#2 loaded to just function the action worked the best. Never chronoed the load but recoil is light. Worked in a number of pistols, carbines and SMGs. Just drops the brass at your feet.

Set the COL to fit your barrel and magazine. The only special thing is that you need the Lee Factory Crimp die. Some 9mm brass is thicker at the bottom and you can get a slight bulge. The LFC will take care of that.

I made a batch of 147 grain SWC Bayou Bullets coated bullet (green) over 5.0 gr. of AA#7 weighed out on my scale. COAL = 1.141". CCI small pistol primers.

Range report to follow. Will they work the action with the standard spring?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I am thinking that that load will work.........

With lead, I even thing 4.5grs might even cycle with the 147gr lead bullets......... but take a wood stick and hammer just in case, since.......

I don't shoot lead out of my 9's, that is just a guess on a minimum charge.

Can't wait to see how those coated lead, shot out of your pistol.
Best of luck.

Mine has an aluminum frame and my wife is rather skittish. Physically she can handle it but doesn't like the flash, bang and recoil. She could do more but just likes shooting the 686 with .38 loads.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

It's a long sad story but I haven't been able to shoot in a good while. But I'll spare you the details. I shot the 147 grain green Bayou bullets out of my 3rd Gen with 5 grains of Acc#7. They were VERY comfortable to shoot and accurate because the recovery between shots was easy. It was more of a push than a kick like described. I think I can go down to the 4.5 gr Nevada suggested and can probably even get my wife to shoot them.

I shot lead, coated and jacketed this time around and I didn't run everybody off the range with the smoke like what it's been doing.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"