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02-01-2015, 03:43 PM
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Buying progressive. Wait for RCBS ProChucker or Dillon 650 / Hornady L-N-L now?
I've gone back and forth with the merits of a progressive vs single stage for my pistol ammo. Each time I've been ready to make a purchase, I decide to stick with my SS. The new RCBS ProChucker that was introduced at the SHOT show once again caught my attention. It looks like it may address a few of the minor shortcomings of other designs. On the other hand, it is unproven in the real world.
If I'm going to make the move to progressive, do you see enough benefits in the RCBS design to wait, or just go with a Dillon 650 or Hornady LNL-AP that have the proven track record?
Last edited by MN2944; 02-03-2015 at 09:09 AM.
Reason: Title change for more options
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02-01-2015, 04:20 PM
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Go with Dillon.
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02-01-2015, 04:25 PM
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I've had a Dillion 450/550 since 1984, a friend had a 1000 since the mid 70's,my F-I-L has 2 of the 1050 since the late 80's. You can see a pattern here. I have been around several RCBS designs and I would recommend to go ahead and get a Dillion (even a used one) Ivan
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02-01-2015, 04:28 PM
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I have had excellent luck with my Dillon 550. What few dealing I have had with Dillon support have been very pleasurable.
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02-01-2015, 04:29 PM
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Get the Dillon.
I had a Dillon 550 for over twenty years, last winter the linkage got sloppy from reloading 2-3 thousand rounds a year.
Dillon totally rebuilt it for $69.50
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02-01-2015, 04:31 PM
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You are going to get lots of opinions on this. I have an old pacific single stage that I have done thousands of rounds on. I debated for a long time about going progressive. A friend has an old dillon square D and a new 650 which I have not used. I read and read and went with the LNL. I love it. My friend took some time to get his 650 set up and working right and it is the same with the LNL. I still do lots of loading on my single for rounds I dont shoot as much of - 45, 223, 30-06. Just my opinon but I could be happy with my single stage. It takes more time but there is a trade off. I feel I can control things one single step at a time. I still have literally thousands of 38, 40, and 9mm in coffee cans all sized, primed by hand and most belled ready to load. I did these in batches and you will be surprised at how many you can crank out. I am very busy and when I get time I do several thousand at a time on the progressive. I dont load any more total rounds but instead of lots of small amounts of time I usually sit down for a couple hours of production. I am close to retirement and will have more time. Likely wont have any prob using my single to better monitor and spend more time at the bench because I can. JMHO but there is a certain amount of macho with having a progressive. Each to their own. I can be happy either way. You will too. Best of luck.
Last edited by Huskerguy; 02-01-2015 at 04:34 PM.
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02-01-2015, 04:53 PM
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550 Dillon has been on my bench for many years and loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds....you will NEVER regret getting one!!
Dillon Customer Service to me has been the standard by which all companies aspire to.
Randy
Last edited by growr; 04-27-2015 at 06:58 PM.
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02-01-2015, 05:11 PM
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I don't like blue... my favorite color is green.
'Nuff said...
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02-01-2015, 05:22 PM
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Here's another vote for Dillon. I have a 550B set up for .45ACP, .38Sp, and .40SW and I have a Square D exclusively for 9mm. Several years ago a part broke on my 550B and Dillon replaced it by return mail, in an other moment of stupidity, rather than use the printed directions, I disassembled the auto primer feed...............the Tech on the phone was very patient and understanding (he didn't laugh at my stupidity) and he had me up an running in no time.
I have nothing against the other brands, I loaded lots of rounds on an old Redding single stage press for a long time and I still use an RCBS Jr for bottleneck pistol rounds and my rifle reloads. I just like the speed and ease of the Dillons for high volume reloading.
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02-01-2015, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akjaeger
Get the Dillon.
I had a Dillon 550 for over twenty years, last winter the linkage got sloppy from reloading 2-3 thousand rounds a year.
Dillon totally rebuilt it for $69.50
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Was that cost for shipping?
Never heard of Dillon charging for any parts or repairs.
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02-01-2015, 06:49 PM
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If you are interested in a 5-hole progressive, your choices are Dillon 650, Hornady LnL, and one version of the new RCBS.
If you are interested in more than 5 holes, your choices are Dillon 1050 and the other version of the new RCBS.
If you are doing pistol, you may think that a 4-hole press is enough, in which case you could consider the Dillon 550.
Neither version of the RCBS has been reviewed, and I wonder how many are actually available in retail distribution.
H & D presses all have their quirks, but both companies stand solidly behind them. There's always the possibility that the RCBS presses represent an improvement over both older designs, and historically RCBS has stood behind their products. But it will be a while before you can read what others say about the new Prochuckers.
So the choices are pretty clear . . . 4, 5, or more holes . . . take a risk now on an improved design from RCBS or wait/watch a while . . . and only you can make the choice.
Last edited by Twoboxer; 02-01-2015 at 06:51 PM.
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02-01-2015, 06:49 PM
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Dillon-Dillon- only way to go
RL550B with way over a million rounds. Never paid for a single replacement part.
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Last edited by Snolan4571; 02-01-2015 at 06:49 PM.
Reason: Spl
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02-01-2015, 07:16 PM
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Reload
Hands down Dillon
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02-01-2015, 07:45 PM
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Been reloading on a Dillon 550 for 20 years without a problem. They have taken polls at the larger pistol matches to see what the various competitors are using to reload. For some reason about 90% use a Dillon. I wonder why?
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02-01-2015, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John R
Was that cost for shipping?
Never heard of Dillon charging for any parts or repairs.
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No, that's the cost for a total rebuild including return shipping. Tight as a new press, all new linkage, primer setup and powder measure.
Pretty good deal.
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02-01-2015, 10:15 PM
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I've used a Dillon 450 (replaced by the 550) for nearly forty years. It is a must for pistol. I use it for rifle to size and seat only. I have done some upgrades over the years and have loaded many 100K's with it. I tend to be skeptical of the new stuff, but that's just me.
It depends a lot on how much you shoot as well.
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02-01-2015, 11:09 PM
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Do you like shooting more than reloading bench chores?
About 35 years ago I had never reloaded anything of any kind, nor been around such.
The 450 Dillon had just come out.
It was easy to learn, then step to the 550. After 20 years on that, I traded it off for major down payment on the 650.
After 15 years as a 650 operator, on those few occasions I want to go 'single stage', I know how to do that ON the 650, along with however many strokes it takes to make a reloaded cartridge.
On the other hand, most of the time I'd rather get a perfect round with each pull of the handle.
Not familiar with the other colors, too busy going to the range when not waltzing with Old Blue.....
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02-02-2015, 12:05 AM
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What is The projected cost of the pro RC? It looks great, but if it's anywhere near a 1050, I would be buying the 1050.
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02-02-2015, 12:07 AM
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Go with the Hornady LNL AP press.
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02-02-2015, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&PUSER
Go with the Hornady LNL AP press.
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I've certainly heard of them, but am not as familiar with it. What features do you prefer on the LNL over the Dillon?
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02-02-2015, 08:29 AM
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I am very happy with my RCBS presses
RCBS has the same customer service and warranty as Dillon
I have
partner press
rock chucker
auto 4x4
ammomaster
piggyback 2
all good presses
Dillon and Hornady also make nice stuff
Lee makes some good stuff for the money, but you have to pick and choose.
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02-02-2015, 08:39 AM
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Green has had a few progressive busts in the past, I have had blue and now have red... But wish I had stayed with blue....
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02-02-2015, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken158
Green has had a few progressive busts in the past, I have had blue and now have red... But wish I had stayed with blue....
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I agree with the RCBS past issues on progressives. Despite a nice SHOT show performance, I'd be hesitant to be the BETA tester. Obviously, Hornady has years with the LNL and Dillon has decades. They have the kinks worked out.
What is it that you liked better about Dillon that makes you regret the switch to Hornady?
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02-02-2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN2944
I agree with the RCBS past issues on progressives. Despite a nice SHOT show performance, I'd be hesitant to be the BETA tester. Obviously, Hornady has years with the LNL and Dillon has decades. They have the kinks worked out.
What is it that you liked better about Dillon that makes you regret the switch to Hornady?
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Not to mention there is quite a lot of technical support from the peer group on both of those platforms. I would chose one of the existing models for that reason alone.
Last edited by SLT223; 02-02-2015 at 11:56 AM.
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02-02-2015, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
Been reloading on a Dillon 550 for 20 years without a problem. They have taken polls at the larger pistol matches to see what the various competitors are using to reload. For some reason about 90% use a Dillon. I wonder why?
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Close, the statistics from last year on which brand was used by competitors at the the national events in both USPSA and IDPA shows that Dillon is just a hair over 95%
Of course I'm a bit biased, I make 500 -1200 rounds per week depending on match schedules
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02-02-2015, 03:31 PM
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First Prochucker 7 video "review" I've found . . . notable features shown:
- 7 stations for size, flare, powder, lock-out, bullet feed, seat, & crimp.
- A shaped pin that rises through the shellplate to ensure index alignment.
Questions still unanswered:
Will the Primer system be reliable?
Why is there slop in the toolhead? Failure to tighten set screws or design issue?
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02-02-2015, 04:22 PM
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Dillon vs Anyone else?
First of all Dillon does charge for repairs. I sent a 550 back to them because the ram was frozen and they charged me $150. Dillon does stand behind their equipment and will ship parts as needed.
Second you will probably pay 80% of the new cost for a used Dillon.
I have used a 550 and 650 for over 20 years and loaded thousands of rounds. The 650 has a great feature in their powder check die. If it beeps I check the load every time and have found some unusual things in the charge.
Loading pistol rounds is a piece of cake. I use both machines to load 223. The 550 does decap and sizing and then through the trim dies. The 650 completes the loading.
They are great pieces of equipment.
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02-02-2015, 08:06 PM
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Another vote for Dillon. Ive had a RL550B as well as an XL650 since 1995. Very good presses and Dillon service is top notch.
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02-02-2015, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN2944
I've gone back and forth with the merits of a progressive vs single stage for my pistol ammo. Each time I've been ready to make a purchase, I decide to stick with my SS. The new RCBS ProChucker that was introduced at the SHOT show once again caught my attention. It looks like it may address a few of the minor shortcomings of other designs. On the other hand, it is unproven in the real world.
If I'm going to make the move to progressive, do you see enough benefits in the RCBS design to wait, or just go with a Dillon 650 that has the proven track record?
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RCBS is a fine press, I have a 78 JR3 In SS. See attached though and at least make the comparison with the new proposed purchase.
thewelshm
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02-02-2015, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEWELSHM
RCBS is a fine press, I have a 78 JR3 In SS. See attached though and at least make the comparison with the new proposed purchase.
thewelshm
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As with anything, it's all opinion. Redding dies & a Lee press, really?
All the manuf back their equip to some degree. The question of cost is more reliability & ease of use when it comes to progressives, not ego as those that won't spend the $$ Would like you to think. Buyer remorse? Sure, buy something that fails you, doesn't matter how cheap it is.
Buy what you can afford, but be prepared to spend more time because of your choice. Hornady took a few shots to get their LNL right, & it's close. It's good to have competition, keeps everyone innovative & honest.
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Last edited by fredj338; 02-05-2015 at 07:05 PM.
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02-02-2015, 11:57 PM
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I jumped into a Dillon 650 after a few frustrating months with a used Lee Turret. I suppose most of my problems stem from trying to load six calibers. Every one of them has its own idiosyncrasies. I can blow through hundreds of 9mm, 40, or 45acp per hour. I move to 38/357, 223, or 22tcm and the process slows way down. It's still faster than the turret though. It's all in the learning curve and I'm still learning.
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02-03-2015, 09:27 AM
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What I'm gathering from the comments as well as other articles I've read seems to indicate Dillon for durability if loading thousands of rounds per month.
My loading rate would not be that high, perhaps 500 per month. Switching between 4 different cartridges is also a factor. Despite initial growing pains a few years ago, I'm not seeing too much against the current production LNL for my needs.
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02-03-2015, 10:10 AM
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I am a experienced reloader, and love my Dillon. I have no bias on color, other than I won't use Lee Presses. I do use their dies.
If I had a friend that wanted a new press, I would move him to a LNL, simply for the extra hole for a powder cop die. The biggest mistake a reloader can make is a squib, or double, and I firmly believe in the RCBS lockout die. The Hornady has a hole for it. I rely on it heavily for my loading, and now switch it out to my Dillon, but then I seat, and crimp in one station, in 38, and 357 for sure, others I can see.
I use my Dillon a lot, but I use my LNL more.
I would not buy the RCBS, especially a new model. If for no other reason, I hate the strips, and refuse to use them.
I try to never buy a new model, wait for the second year.
Last edited by bwxmas; 02-03-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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02-05-2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwxmas
I am a experienced reloader, and love my Dillon. I have no bias on color, other than I won't use Lee Presses. I do use their dies.
If I had a friend that wanted a new press, I would move him to a LNL, simply for the extra hole for a powder cop die. The biggest mistake a reloader can make is a squib, or double, and I firmly believe in the RCBS lockout die. The Hornady has a hole for it. I rely on it heavily for my loading, and now switch it out to my Dillon, but then I seat, and crimp in one station, in 38, and 357 for sure, others I can see.
I use my Dillon a lot, but I use my LNL more.
I would not buy the RCBS, especially a new model. If for no other reason, I hate the strips, and refuse to use them.
I try to never buy a new model, wait for the second year.
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And there we have it
Thewelshm
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02-05-2015, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN2944
What I'm gathering from the comments as well as other articles I've read seems to indicate Dillon for durability if loading thousands of rounds per month.
My loading rate would not be that high, perhaps 500 per month. Switching between 4 different cartridges is also a factor. Despite initial growing pains a few years ago, I'm not seeing too much against the current production LNL for my needs.
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While durability is a great thing, it's more about reliability. If you have to stop & fuss with the press, you aren't reloading. Why many reloaders shun the Lee, they require more fussing. They all make good ammo, not the point, It's the reliability factor. When I need ammo, I want my gear to work with minimal fuss. Dillon gives me that in a progressive.
The new RCBS may be just as good, the current RCBS is a good press but the primer strips turn me off. So if they did away with that, maybe. The LNL is a good press, but priming is still a weak point. It is a tiny bit cheaper, like $75 if equipped with the case feeder as a 650. If you never want a case feeder, then the LNL is a good choice. If you think you want a case feeder in the future, buy the 650. Better case feeder & IMO, better priming system. The priming system on any progressive is the weak link. They all back their gear, too much is made out of the Dillon warranty, even though they are good.
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Last edited by fredj338; 02-05-2015 at 07:13 PM.
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02-05-2015, 07:42 PM
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I haven't read all the replies but it seems to be a little weighted towards Dillon so I'll throw in my vote for the Hornady. To be fair I'll go ahead and say I have never used the Dillon and haven't seen the RCBS, but have loaded thousands on my Hornady. At first glance the Dillon 550 may look like a better value, but I wanted a press that automatically advanced to the next stage and to get that feature on a Dillon you have to go to the 650. Best I can remember the 650 costs more than the Hornady. My only complaint with the Hornady is the ball grip handle that comes with it. The aftermarket roller handle fixes that.
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02-05-2015, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -dave-
I haven't read all the replies but it seems to be a little weighted towards Dillon so I'll throw in my vote for the Hornady. To be fair I'll go ahead and say I have never used the Dillon and haven't seen the RCBS, but have loaded thousands on my Hornady. At first glance the Dillon 550 may look like a better value, but I wanted a press that automatically advanced to the next stage and to get that feature on a Dillon you have to go to the 650. Best I can remember the 650 costs more than the Hornady. My only complaint with the Hornady is the ball grip handle that comes with it. The aftermarket roller handle fixes that.
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The reason the LNL appears so much cheaper is it comes with zero case feeder parts. The 650 is designed to be used with a case feeder & comes with all the parts but the bowl. Why I said equipped the same, the 650 is only about $75 more. I prefer the LNL if no case feeder is desired, it seems more user friendly. The 650 would have to be modified to work w/o the feeder parts or you would feed cases into the case feeder tube. Having done this when I first got mine, not worth the effort & not any faster than my manual indexing 550B. I am also not a fan of the current fad of lock bushings. Just something to come loose IME. The removable tool head of the Dillon is easier & more reliable for caliber changes. I don't own a LNL, but have loaded quite a bit on my buddy's. Both good machines, but the priming system on the 650 is a bit better, more positive.
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02-05-2015, 08:32 PM
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^^^^^
I'm looking at the LNL AP which comes with case and bullet feeders. When comparably equipped for 4 calibers, the Hornady and Dillon 650 are very close in price.
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02-05-2015, 08:50 PM
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I've never used Dillon, I have a Hornady. I think the bushing system is better than the tool head system. It uses a spring that wraps around the shell plate to hold the brass instead of pins, so cases can be inserted or removed at any station. The primer system won't dump primers on the floor when no case is present. It easy to change out powder measure inserts. It is easy to change between primer sizes.
Some of the reasons I like the Hornady.
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02-05-2015, 10:36 PM
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Very pleased w/ Hornady LNL AP. Problem free. Works. Ordered shell plates and dies for several calibers along with the press. Ended up with 700 nice Hornady .30 cal. bullets as a nice little extra. Very cool. That's enough bullets to keep my 03-A4 replica shooting for almost a year. Very cool indeed!
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02-06-2015, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338
The reason the LNL appears so much cheaper is it comes with zero case feeder parts. The 650 is designed to be used with a case feeder & comes with all the parts but the bowl. Why I said equipped the same, the 650 is only about $75 more. I prefer the LNL if no case feeder is desired, it seems more user friendly. The 650 would have to be modified to work w/o the feeder parts or you would feed cases into the case feeder tube. Having done this when I first got mine, not worth the effort & not any faster than my manual indexing 550B. I am also not a fan of the current fad of lock bushings. Just something to come loose IME. The removable tool head of the Dillon is easier & more reliable for caliber changes. I don't own a LNL, but have loaded quite a bit on my buddy's. Both good machines, but the priming system on the 650 is a bit better, more positive.
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I agree with nearly all you said in previous posts, and some of the quoted post. But . . .
While the Dillon and Hornady are closer in price when the case feeder is considered, it's also fair to point out that the more calibers you reload the more expensive the Dillon becomes vs the Hornady.
The bushing system eliminates any slop (upward tilt/shift on ram-up) in the tool head on the Hornady. While they are an added cost they contribute to keeping the cost of changeover parts lower than on the 650.
And I've never had any "come loose". OTOH all parts inserted and removed eventually do wear something or other out.
Both are good presses, have their quirks, priming is ALWAYS the weakest spot, and their customer service and warranties are comparable.
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02-06-2015, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN2944
I've gone back and forth with the merits of a progressive vs single stage for my pistol ammo. Each time I've been ready to make a purchase, I decide to stick with my SS. The new RCBS ProChucker that was introduced at the SHOT show once again caught my attention. It looks like it may address a few of the minor shortcomings of other designs. On the other hand, it is unproven in the real world.
If I'm going to make the move to progressive, do you see enough benefits in the RCBS design to wait, or just go with a Dillon 650 or Hornady LNL-AP that have the proven track record?
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I tried to get a reliable bullet from a lee loader but had many issues and broken parts. Also major powder drop failure due to drop tube not seated properly. Had to barrel size most of my output and decided to up my game. Went with a Dillon 550 and never had any issues now going past 5000 rounds. Also eliminated the need for barrel sizing. Just my 2 cents worth.
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02-08-2015, 01:47 PM
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I have been using a Hornady L-N-L progressive and single stage for years. good presses.
Grew up on a Rockchucker, but when I was ready to set up my reloading room I went with Hornady.
I like the Hornady progressive press but I have spent time on my buddy's Dillion and even though I hate to say it, I am jealous.
Hind site is 20/20 and if I had it to do over again I woulda gone with an RCBS single stage and Dillon progressive.
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04-27-2015, 04:44 PM
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I have a LNL and a Dillion 650.. The LNL has some issues with the priming.. I have broken the rod support about 5 times. also the primer slide is also quirky too that I have replaced both at least twice. I have also broke the indexer and the little beveled pins also. the shell plate mount seems to come loose often. the spring case holder is also a pain. Although I have had some issues but Hornady has replaced all the parts free.. I bought some extras because when a part breaks you are done for a week or so. All in all it is a great press, I have loaded thousands of rounds but I still bought a Dillion XL650 set up for 9mm I like to load 1,000 at a time and all set up it takes minimal time. No parts broken on the Dillion (yet?)
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04-27-2015, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoboxer
I agree with nearly all you said in previous posts, and some of the quoted post. But . . .
While the Dillon and Hornady are closer in price when the case feeder is considered, it's also fair to point out that the more calibers you reload the more expensive the Dillon becomes vs the Hornady.
The bushing system eliminates any slop (upward tilt/shift on ram-up) in the tool head on the Hornady. While they are an added cost they contribute to keeping the cost of changeover parts lower than on the 650.
And I've never had any "come loose". OTOH all parts inserted and removed eventually do wear something or other out.
Both are good presses, have their quirks, priming is ALWAYS the weakest spot, and their customer service and warranties are comparable.
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Yes there is a sightly higher cst for conv, but I get superior priming IMO & I prefer the tool head, it never comes loose. The bushings are a weak link, they do come loose, so much so Hornady will provide you shims.
Changing calibers on a 650 is just swapping the tool head, not 4 diff bushings. Yes swapping powder measures requires about a minute longer. Again, no case feeder, I would probably go LNL.
Btw, for those wanting a bullet feeder, the Hornady is a distant 3rd; mr bullet or RCBS, quieter & reliable.
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Last edited by fredj338; 04-27-2015 at 05:35 PM.
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04-27-2015, 06:48 PM
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Over the last few months, I have just been through all the research and decision making that OP is going through now.
For pure reliability, productivity, minimal down time, and simple caliber change, Dillon 650XL has it all hands down.
Initial tool head set-up took me about 20 minutes. If not changing primer size, caliber change takes about two minutes. If you are changing primer size, takes about five minutes.
My vote: Dillon 650XL. Tried and true, excellent customer service, and great parts availability.
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