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  #1  
Old 02-23-2015, 11:19 AM
btmonnat btmonnat is offline
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Default Best powder for S & W 686 w/4'' barrel

New to forum and have been reloading for 40 years but have little experience with handgun reloading. Would like to know what powder would give me the best accuracy and vel. out of a Model 686 S & W with a 4'' barrel. Accuracy being most important. Any input will greatly be appreciated.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:48 PM
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Bullseye and Titegroup seem to do very well in many instances and both meter very well too.
A good friend of mine is a die hard Bullseye powder guy and it works well in all his revolvers and excellent in his GP100 4in with plated and jacketed bullets.
Karl
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:50 PM
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I'd start with 2400 . W296/H110 will give top velocity & good accuracy but must be close to or at max load . 2400 is more flexible . What bullets are you planing on using ?
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:02 PM
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Can't go wrong with Bullseye, unique, 2400, or W231.

Save the 2400 for top end loads with heavy bullets.
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:27 PM
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Lead ?
Copper ?
Light weight?
158gr plus ?
15 yards.........
100 yards ?

I have no clue.
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:43 PM
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Large game ?
Small Game ?
Three gun Bullseye Match ?
Steel plate, bowling pin Match ?
Tin can plinking ?

Information helps informed answers.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmonnat View Post
New to forum and have been reloading for 40 years but have little experience with handgun reloading. Would like to know what powder would give me the best accuracy and vel. out of a Model 686 S & W with a 4'' barrel. Accuracy being most important. Any input will greatly be appreciated.
No such thing. What bullets are you going to use? What vel are you trying to achieve? It depends. IME, accuracy is rarely powder dependent. Unlike rifles, pistols show less preference.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:31 PM
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AND, for now, and most importantly, what powders do you have, or can you get?
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:30 PM
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I plan to use 158 gr. XTP's. I have 231 and H110 for my 629 classic 44 mag. I hunt mostly deer and am trying to cut down on the quilly pig population up on my wood lot. If someone in the family wounds a deer I leave the rifle home and track with my pistol. I want a smaller gun than my 6 1/2 '' 44 mag. I killed a nice buck with the XTP's in my 44 that is why I would like to stay with them. It would be
easier dragging a deer with a smaller gun strapped to me. I also have a 45 ACP in a 1911 I load for.


Sorry for not providing more Info. in the original post.

Last edited by btmonnat; 02-23-2015 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:38 PM
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Default Best powder for S & W 686?

Any powder you can find..
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:43 PM
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For max hunting loads, the H-110 you have will work fine. It is the same powder as win 296. It will give max velocities, and usually makes for an accurate load, along with the expected muzzle blast. 231 is a good target / light field powder. I personally have a high opinion of XTP's, and have used them often on big game, usually in a 44 mag.

Larry
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmonnat View Post
I plan to use 158 gr. XTP's. I have 231 and H110 for my 629 classic 44 mag. I hunt mostly deer and am trying to cut down on the quilly pig population up on my wood lot. If someone in the family wounds a deer I leave the rifle home and track with my pistol. I want a smaller gun than my 6 1/2 '' 44 mag. I killed a nice buck with the XTP's in my 44 that is why I would like to stay with them. It would be easier dragging a deer with a smaller gun strapped to me. I also have a 45 ACP in a 1911 I load for.
You can load for the .357 Magnum the same way you load for the .44 Magnum. Use W231 for middle to middle hot loads and H110/W296 for the upper end hottest loads. I recommend a magnum primer with that powder.
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:30 PM
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I'm going to break out here and recommend Clays for 38 Special loaded in 357 Magnum brass, or .38 brass. It makes extremely accurate loads with 158 plated slugs.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:53 PM
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IMO H110/W296 and IMR 4227are too slow for use as a 357 Magnum Handgun powder. Yeah, they will work and will produce higher velocities. But the price you will pay is excessive muzzle flash, blast, and gas cutting of the top strap. H110 is best reserved for 357 Magnum rifle loads where you have enough barrel length to properly utilize this slower burning powder.

For Hornady's excellent 158 grain XTP bullet the powder I've found provides the best balance is Accurate #9. With a 4 inch revolver you won't see any excess muzzle flash, it won't have that distinctive BAHOOM of H110, and the Barrel/Cylinder flash is noticably reduced from what is seen with H110. As for accuracy, my pet #9 Handgun load features 11.1 grains of powder with the 158 grain Hornady XTP. Out of the barrel of my 6 inch Dan Wesson this load produces 1200 fps and will produce 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards with clockwork regularity. Considering that a comparable H110 load using 15 grains of powder only produces 1250 fps you don't lose a lot for shedding all the drama the slower powders generate.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:55 PM
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Default Though XTPs aren't.....

Though XPTs aren't 'target' bullets that are lobbed subsonically to the target, for JHPs the most accurate loads are often found in the mid range. For hunting velocities, I'd surely sacrifice a modicum of accuracy for velocity. For medium loads I use Unique and Acc #7. People are saying good things about the new BE-86. I use 2400 for hot to top loads because it gives up very little in velocity to 110/296 but is more versatile.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:09 PM
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158gr jacketed 357 Mag
i been using Viht N110.
Clean, very accurate and little flash. Velocities just shy of h110 and 2400.
Its a compressed load, but no issues.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
IMO H110/W296 and IMR 4227are too slow for use as a 357 Magnum Handgun powder. Yeah, they will work and will produce higher velocities. But the price you will pay is excessive muzzle flash, blast, and gas cutting of the top strap. H110 is best reserved for 357 Magnum rifle loads where you have enough barrel length to properly utilize this slower burning powder.
^^^2x^^^

I'll add that discharging IMR 4227 from a 4" or 6" BBL will cause you gun to double as a sand blasting tool.

I use the above mentioned powders with outstanding results in a 20' 1892 Winchester chambered in 44 Magnum....even then I get some unburned powder with 4227.

Last edited by SLT223; 02-23-2015 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:12 PM
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Bullseye, Unique and 2400 will do anything you need or want in .357 mag and .38 Spl.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:21 PM
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Sounds like you want full power loads. The W296 will be exc with 158gr anything.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:04 AM
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These loads are from Hornady & are max with a 158 XTP : 16.0grs W296 & 15.6grs H110 show 1250fps from an 8" barrel , 11.5grs AA#9 , 13.1grs N-110 , 14.3grs 2400 , 15.1grs H4227 , 15.2grs W296 & 15.0grs H110 show 1200fps from same barrel length . All loads with Win SP mag primer & C.O.L. of 1.590" . Hope this helps .
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:49 AM
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I have done a fair amount of chronographing 357 loads out of a 4"
barrel and 296/H110 is too slow for best velocity. 2400 will yield more
velocity with less drama. I would suggest that you consider a hard
cast 158 gr SWC instead of the JHP. Good velocity from a 4" barrel is
hard to achieve with a 158 gr jacketed bullet. A reasonable charge of
2400 and a magnum primer will yield well over 1300 fps out of a 4"
barrel with a cast bullet. Well above the actual velocity you will see
with a 158 gr jacketed bullet.
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:16 AM
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I was not really looking at hard cast bullets. The biggest reason was in my 45 model 1911 Kimber I had so much leading they were a headache to say the least. I ended up giving them to an EX friend. I can see where a revolver may be different. How does the lead clean out of the barrel?
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:52 AM
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I started reloading in 1975 when I purchased my first .357 Magnum. I first used WW 296. Later changed to H110 & use it in all barrel lengths. I load maximum loads & Hornady 158gr. XTP bullets.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:18 AM
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Default 2400 for hunting.

Ultimately it will be the one you spend time working up a load to find the sweet spot.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:21 AM
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I switched to AA #7 for 158 grain JHP loads in my 4" 686.

While I use H110 for rifle loads that loads produces a huge fireball in the 686.

Having used Bluedot previously which also is very flashy AA #7 is great.

It has minimal flash, appears to be lower pressure and is a joy to load and shoot.

I used Speer #14 data and had no issues working up to the top listed load.

BLM
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:59 PM
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Hog Hunting! FUN
Since you have H110 and wish to use 158 gr. XTP bullet go with the Hornady data alwslate cited in post # 21. That should do just fine.

If , by some miracle , you come across some 2400 pick it up , it has always been an accurate powder in magnum hunting loads.
Good luck with the pig thinning,
Gary
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmonnat View Post
.. I had so much leading they were a headache to say the least. I ended up giving them to an EX friend. I can see where a revolver may be different. How does the lead clean out of the barrel?
Gas check'd HARD cast bullets. Faster than jacketed and no leading. I use RimRock's 170gr LBT-WFN and love them. This is a great hunting bullet. Hard, with a lot of penetration and wide frontal, bone crushing flat nose.

You asked for high velocity and accuracy in a 4" bbl .. well, again, I recommend Vv N110 and the hard cast w/gc.

g/ch .38spc .357mag 170 gr. LBT-WN per 100 - Gas Checked Cast Lead Bullets - Premium Bullets

Cleaning lead from a revolver..? Its a PITA. I think I'm gonna find an EX friend and give them my remaining Hornady swaged 158gr for this very reason
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmonnat View Post
I was not really looking at hard cast bullets. The biggest reason was in my 45 model 1911 Kimber I had so much leading they were a headache to say the least. I ended up giving them to an EX friend. I can see where a revolver may be different. How does the lead clean out of the barrel?
You might look at coated bullets: .38/.357 158 Gr. SWC - 1000 Ct. - Bayou Bullets

With coated bullets there is no leading problem
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:47 PM
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If cast bullets are sized to fit & lube is good leading will be almost non existant . If you go this way check cylinder throats & slug the bore . Throats should be larger than bore , if not throats should be reamed . Size bullets to be a push fit through cylinder throats & use a good quality lube ( I love White Label or LBT Blue ) . I shoot either the Lyman 358429 ( solid ) or 358439 Keith designed SWC bullets 12 BHN alloy from a 4" 586-0 . If you want a gaschecked bullet the LBT WFN or the Thompson designed Lyman 358156 also work very well . The Keith solid will shoot clean thru a good sized hog & the hollowpoint work very well on deer . If you don't cast the above mention Rimrock makes all these bullets , go with the softer 12 BHN . Reason so many commercial cast lead is because they're too hard ( 22 BHN ) & lube used sucks .
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmonnat View Post
I was not really looking at hard cast bullets. The biggest reason was in my 45 model 1911 Kimber I had so much leading they were a headache to say the least. I ended up giving them to an EX friend. I can see where a revolver may be different. How does the lead clean out of the barrel?
Lewis lead remover, or
COPPER Chore Boy wrapped around a bore brush.

Best to avoid with proper bullet hardness for pressure, and fit to bore and throat. Common mistake is TOO hard. Bullet does not expand to fit bore, you get gas cutting and leading.

Last edited by Bugkiller99; 02-24-2015 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:51 PM
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OP, I Just got back from testing some loads, might interest you.

2400 vs H110/W296 vs N110
180 gr Cast FN
S&W 686 4" bbl

Target was @ 27 yards

Alliant 2400 (loaded a bit higher then max).
(CCI 500)
1289 fps Avg
ES 21
SD 9
1.78" group (5 shot)

14.0 gr Viht N110 (compressed)
CCI 400
1321 fps avg
ES 18
SD 9
0.85" group (5 shot)

13.65 gr W296
CCI 550
1126 fps avg
ES 100
SD 46
1.5" group (5 shot)

Im sure some of you are loading H110/w296 to higher charges but I have not gone over 14.0 because accuracy diminished and primers were cratering.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwslate View Post
I have done a fair amount of chronographing 357 loads out of a 4"
barrel and 296/H110 is too slow for best velocity. 2400 will yield more
velocity with less drama. I would suggest that you consider a hard
cast 158 gr SWC instead of the JHP. Good velocity from a 4" barrel is
hard to achieve with a 158 gr jacketed bullet. A reasonable charge of
2400 and a magnum primer will yield well over 1300 fps out of a 4"
barrel with a cast bullet. Well above the actual velocity you will see
with a 158 gr jacketed bullet.
Not really true. You'll almost always get higher vel with slower powders, regardless of bbl length. You'll just get more blast & flash. I agree, 2400 is more user friendly & you only give about 30fps in a 4". I pretty much moved back to 2400 for all my magnums.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2015, 04:25 AM
alwslate alwslate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Not really true. You'll almost always get higher vel with slower powders, regardless of bbl length. You'll just get more blast & flash. I agree, 2400 is more user friendly & you only give about 30fps in a 4". I pretty much moved back to 2400 for all my magnums.
I wouldn't really argue with you as far as this being true but
we are talking about a specific situation here. I don't know
where you are getting your 4" data but as I said, I have done
a fair amount of chronographing myself with 4" 357s. I have
four, two S&W 28-2s and two 27-2s. Velocities are higher,
sometimes much higher, with 2400 than with 296 with
recommended charges. In the 44 mag I do prefer 296 to 2400.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:08 AM
btmonnat btmonnat is offline
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[QUOTE=drummer007;138404341]You might look at coated bullets: .38/.357 158 Gr. SWC - 1000 Ct. - Bayou Bullets

With coated bullets there is no leading problem[/QU

What are these bullets coated with and do they need lube or can you load them just like a xtp jacketed bullet. This thread so far favors 2400 so that is what I would like to use if I can find it. Where can I find load limits for the 158 SWC with 2400 powder and what primer? Some people have told me you do not need a mag primer for 2400. Do not now if this is true or not. Sorry for the string of questions but would like to try something that has a chance of working without to much experimenting. Funds are tight. Thanks for all the great replies so far.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:41 AM
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forestswin forestswin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter Magaven View Post
Gas check'd HARD cast bullets. Faster than jacketed and no leading. I use RimRock's 170gr LBT-WFN and love them. This is a great hunting bullet. Hard, with a lot of penetration and wide frontal, bone crushing flat nose.

You asked for high velocity and accuracy in a 4" bbl .. well, again, I recommend Vv N110 and the hard cast w/gc.

g/ch .38spc .357mag 170 gr. LBT-WN per 100 - Gas Checked Cast Lead Bullets - Premium Bullets

Cleaning lead from a revolver..? Its a PITA. I think I'm gonna find an EX friend and give them my remaining Hornady swaged 158gr for this very reason

Shooter
Try Unique with those Hornady swaged swc's. They shoot POA with 5grains in 357 cases in my 686 at 25 yards. No leading. Or I'll be your EX friend and give you my ship to address.
Use Hornady's load data for them.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:02 AM
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Thanks Forest, but I have no Unique and as long as the " great pistol powder hording" is going on, I'm done looking for powder. My blood pressure is too high and I have a job, so no time for that sillyness.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwslate View Post
I wouldn't really argue with you as far as this being true but
we are talking about a specific situation here. I don't know
where you are getting your 4" data but as I said, I have done
a fair amount of chronographing myself with 4" 357s. I have
four, two S&W 28-2s and two 27-2s. Velocities are higher,
sometimes much higher, with 2400 than with 296 with
recommended charges. In the 44 mag I do prefer 296 to 2400.
It obviously depends on the charge wts, but in a test run with 4 diff 4" guns, h110/w296 give higher vel with safer pressures in all 4 guns with 158gr bullets.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:16 PM
btmonnat btmonnat is offline
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Default This truely is a great site

Thanks to all. This has been very helpful.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:46 PM
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[QUOTE=btmonnat;138405686]
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummer007 View Post
You might look at coated bullets: .38/.357 158 Gr. SWC - 1000 Ct. - Bayou Bullets

With coated bullets there is no leading problem[/QU

What are these bullets coated with and do they need lube or can you load them just like a xtp jacketed bullet. This thread so far favors 2400 so that is what I would like to use if I can find it. Where can I find load limits for the 158 SWC with 2400 powder and what primer? Some people have told me you do not need a mag primer for 2400. Do not now if this is true or not. Sorry for the string of questions but would like to try something that has a chance of working without to much experimenting. Funds are tight. Thanks for all the great replies so far.
Couple things. You should have a good reloading manual (or 5 ). Free printed ones are available from the manufacturers. I have added a link to a good manufacturers site for pressure tested loads.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...86956481,d.eXY

I don't have much experience with plated bullets, but I believe most are soft lead, with a plating, some with copper, some with powder coat, and not designed for maximum velocities, or the heavy crimps required with most heavy powder charges. They might not perform well on big game, do to their soft construction. Something to look into. They are supposed to be fine for target level loads though.

I recommended h110 / 296, as you already have some. 2400 works well also. Mag primers are needed with H110 / 296. Some use them with 2400, some don't. Go by what the published and tested load indicates.

Larry

Last edited by Fishinfool; 02-25-2015 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:37 PM
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I must be doing something wrong. I have been loading lead bullets in all my handgun cartridges including the .357 Magnum and in a few rifle cartridges too and I never get any leading. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:50 PM
btmonnat btmonnat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I must be doing something wrong. I have been loading lead bullets in all my handgun cartridges including the .357 Magnum and in a few rifle cartridges too and I never get any leading. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
No you must be doing it all wright. Like I always said ''You can not beat experience''
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Old 03-09-2015, 01:37 AM
MarkDozier MarkDozier is offline
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I just made a load for 158 gr XTP. I use 14 grains of w-296 with small pistol magnum primers.
vel - 1527 fps in my 1894c with a 18 inch barrel
in my 686 - no chrono data - but it fill wonderful. You know your shooting a 357 mag, but oh my it feels wonderful with the rubber grips.
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  #43  
Old 03-09-2015, 05:13 PM
Freedomfirst Freedomfirst is offline
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Google Hornady's ballistic chart which gives the muzzle velocity and energy at 50 and 100 yards for a wide variety of ammo. I cannot personally know if everything on it is totally accurate, but it is good enough for me. IMO either a 125 gr. or 158 gr. 357 Magnum round will certainly accomplish what you need it to do.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:18 PM
Terry Terry is offline
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I have a 586 L-Comp and use primarily Bullseye or Unique depending on the bullet I am loading. I think Unique is excellent for hunting loads.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:45 PM
phils phils is offline
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Default As for feral hogs.....

I would use .357 mag only as a backup and use ww296 with at least a 158 gr. sp or solid.
Keep with the M29 as your carry. I use Sierra 240gr. HP and 24 gr. ww296 with mag. primers.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Man View Post
Bullseye, Unique and 2400 will do anything you need or want in .357 mag and .38 Spl.
Yah, if you want to load like I did 40 years ago.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:24 PM
Murphy's Law Murphy's Law is offline
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Surprised 300MP powder has not been mentioned.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:27 PM
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Yah, if you want to load like I did 40 years ago.
Certainly, BE, Unique and 2400 are old school but they are old reliables. What have you found out in the last 40 years that works better for you?

Since this shortage thing I've had to try new powders and I'm really pleased with Red Dot and Acc #7 and the whole Accurate line looks good to me. VV is supposed to be excellent but it also has an excellent price. I have Titegroup but haven't tried it yet.

Bullets have gone through transitions, too. Moly, plated, coated. I'm really happy with coated.
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpac3 View Post
Can't go wrong with Bullseye, unique, 2400, or W231.

Save the 2400 for top end loads with heavy bullets.
I would agree with your comment and in the order you presented except I find W231 more versatile and use with bullets lighter than 158.
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Old 03-09-2015, 08:09 PM
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bigsteve113 bigsteve113 is offline
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I use 2400 and Lil Gun for my .357 158 XTP's and LSWC '

XTP 158/ 14.5 2400 = 1201 fps in 4" 66
LSWC 158/14.5 2400 = 1341 fps in 4" 66

XTP 158/17.0 Lil Gun = 1270 fps 4" 66
LSWC 158/17.0 Lil Gun = 1341 fps 4" 66

Yes I know, 1341 fps with both 2400 and Lil Gun. Not a typo, it's just the way it fell. Also the LSWC is home cast, no gas check, and no leading , go figure.

This weekend I'm gonna try that XTP with 15.0 gr 2400 and test them. 14.5 appeared to be able to take more and Alliant lists 15 gr as max with the JHP. 15 gr of 2400 with the LSWC started showing some signs of pressure. Will let Ya'll know how it works out.

I also use 2400 in the old Skeeter Skelton load. 158 LSWC/13.5 2400 in .38 special brass, crimped in the top lube groove. Nice mid level general purpose, field load. Gets an honest 1200 fps out of that 4" 66 tube and very accurate.

BTW I tried 300-MP for the first time this weekend. Alliant's recommended 18.6 gr with the 158 XTP gave me 1230 fps in my 4" GP100.

I think that 15.00 2400 under a 158 XTP is gonna do the trick. If I could only have one magnum powder it would defiantly be 2400.

Last edited by bigsteve113; 03-09-2015 at 08:12 PM.
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