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03-21-2015, 07:38 AM
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Buy your Clays Powder before they go extinct!
Found this notice over on the Castboolits Forum. So for you members that are looking for Clays powder, and are thinking of holding off buying because of the price...
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Dear Reloader,
Australian Munitions is making some changes to the way we manufacture our pistol and shotgun powders. These changes are necessary to ensure that we can sustainably manufacture these products for many years to come. We are making changes to both the manufacturing process and formulation of the powders, in order to sustain the manufacturability and throughput of the Australian Shotgun (AS) and Australian Pistol (AP) series powders.
The result of this change will be a new series of powders that will give our customers the performance excellence you have come to expect from ADI powders in both shotgun and pistol applications. This new series of powders will be called the APS series of powders, starting with APS35 that will replace AS30N, and APS45 that will replace both AS50N and AP50N. You will see these powders start appearing on the shelves after May this year, and we will be making reloading data available for them on our website and in the 2015 edition of our reloading manual, which will be released in May. Our development of APS-series powders to replace AP70N is well under way, but we will continue to supply AP70N throughout 2015 until the new powder is ready for release. AP100 manufacture is not affected by these changes, as it is manufactured differently.
While we are making these changes, it is unfortunately possible that you may experience some difficulty obtaining AS30N, AP50N and AS50N. This is due to the fact that it is getting more difficult for us to run the old process regularly, which is an important part of the reasoning behind making the changes. We ask that you please remain patient during this time, as the changes are essential to ensuring that we can continue making these powders in Australia well into the future.
Thank you for your ongoing support, and for using our World Class powders, proudly made in Australia. We appreciate your custom.
Be safe out there, and enjoy your reloading.
Ferdi Kluever
Sales Director, Australian Munitions
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Hint AS30 is Clays and AS50 is International Clays and AP70N is Universal Clays.
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03-21-2015, 07:48 AM
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Nothing ever stays the same. Do you know if this company makes any other powders besides the Hodgdon clays series?
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03-21-2015, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collo Rosso
Nothing ever stays the same. Do you know if this company makes any other powders besides the Hodgdon clays series?
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If I understand it correctly, ADI makes a lot of powder that Hodgdon distributes in the US of A. Here is a link to ADI's website
Here is a link to the Powder Equivalents chart. Re-reading the article, I am wondering if HP-38 or W231 will also be affected--since the article references "APS45 that will replace both AS50N and AP50N," and the chart indicates HP-38 as an equivalent to AP50N. I'll see if I can dig up any more on the interweb about Hodgdon's relation to ADI. (Pretty critical since Hodgdon owns both IMR and Winchester Powders.)
Looks like one of the FAQ on ADI's website. However, their answer dances around the question.
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Q4. I’ve heard many of the Hodgdon powders are actually ADI powders, if so why are they cheaper to purchase in the USA?
One of the first things to note is that powder is typically sold in one-pound jars in the USA, and that one pound is 453.6 grams. Australian reloaders buying 500 gram jars are therefore getting 10% more powder per jar than in the USA. Further, ADI Powders do not control the retail price of our powders in Australia. The retail price of powder is determined by the market, and gunshops are free to determine the price of powder according to their costs and profit requirements. This brings us neatly to the final factor determining the retail price of powder - the relatively high cost associated with moving powder around Australia in compliance with transport regulations as set by each state. In the USA, powder can often be shipped as ordinary freight, while in Australia it has to be moved by a licensed carrier of dangerous goods. The cost of compliance with these requirements is probably the largest single factor determining the retail price of our powder in Australia.
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Last edited by novalty; 03-21-2015 at 08:04 AM.
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03-21-2015, 08:20 AM
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Thanks for the info.
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03-21-2015, 08:44 AM
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Well internet search leads me to believe that HP-38 and Winchester 231 (packaged & distributed by Hodgdon Powder) is produced by General Dynamics out of their St. Mark's Powder facility in Florida.
Don't see anything on General Dynamics listing SMP-231 which I've read is W-231 and HP-38. Although I thought this picture was interesting, as it shows Winchester, Hodgdon (Titewad & Lil- Gun), and Ramshot (Competition) powders.
Last edited by novalty; 03-21-2015 at 08:58 AM.
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03-21-2015, 12:55 PM
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I did not have much luck with the "Clays" line of powders in my 12 Ga. or revolvers/pistols.
Universal is almost like Unique but burned very dirty in the 12 Ga...........
It did ok in the 357 magnum for factory dup loads.........
and light target loads in the 38 snub nose with lead bullets.
I will pass......... and let others have at it.
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03-21-2015, 03:44 PM
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That stinks as I really like Clays for 12 gauge target loads and more recently for 38 Special and 45 ACP.
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03-21-2015, 06:00 PM
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Universal Clays
This notice really bugs me. Universal Clays, or Universal as it has been re-branded, is perfect for 20 and 28 ga shotgun target loads. It burns like lighter fluid, absolutely no reside after hundreds of rounds. It will really spoil you. It's no surprise that folks find it wanting in 12 ga. or pistol as it's not on its optimum pressure/burning curve. If the Aussies mess this stuff up I will be disappointed. The old Universal formulation is just now starting to show up on shelves after a two year hiatus caused by a fire in their dryer, or so the rumor goes.
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03-21-2015, 07:08 PM
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You can look at the ADI website for powder "equivalents" It does not mean they are the same with exception of the powders made for Hodgdon. ADI does not make powders for other US companies like Alliant. Many of Hodgdons powders are also from St Marks in Florida.
Some time ago I e mailed them and these and only these are the powders they make for Hodgdon/IMR
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03-21-2015, 09:04 PM
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Glad I have 20lbs of Clays and 11lbs of Universal.
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03-21-2015, 10:00 PM
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While I think as a company ADI is disfunctionable, the whole of our smokeless powder supply hangs by a thread that is being pulled in several directions all at the same time.
The wise among us will take action now, to have supplies in the future.
On edit: I currently have 4 (14 oz) bottles of Clays. I bought them simply because I could.
I'm not going to buy any more until the time I can get it in 8 pound kegs. Then I will get as much as I can stand from an emotional point of view. I can live without Clays but if the opportunity to get some presents itself I will get some more.
Last edited by Thomas15; 03-21-2015 at 10:44 PM.
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03-23-2015, 12:39 PM
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I fail to see any need for panic here. If Hodgdon has been making a profit by importing and relabeling ADI powders, I see no reason for that to cease. AS50N is "International Clays". Now being replaced by APS -45 which is good for more pistol/shotgun options for Hodgdon to sell. I think current demand will dictate a continued importation of ADI powders.
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03-23-2015, 02:46 PM
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While I wonder what part of the process in the manufacture of the old powders is so difficult to do now(maybe the creation and disposal of toxic chemicals?), I also cannot see them removing those powders without a quality substitute. Odds are the new propellants will be more consistent and just as effective as their old counterparts. As for availability, all popular powders have been difficult at best to obtain over the last few years. Most of us have had to find a suitable replacement for many of our favorites. Some of us have been pleasantly surprised to find that in some cases, the new replacement performs better than our old favorite.
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03-24-2015, 04:49 AM
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Even though we all have our favorite powders, thankfully there are so many to choose from that if some go the way of the Dinosaurs, there are still plenty out there to fill in the extinct ones.
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03-24-2015, 10:23 AM
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There seems to be a pressumption the powder will get worse. How do you know it won't function the same if not better? The Australian firm making these powders are pretty good at what they do. For now, I trust them. Yes I know their plant burned, accidents happen. I still trust them. I'd bet rebuilding the production facilities for this product line is the reason for the update in manufacturing.
Last edited by SLT223; 03-24-2015 at 10:26 AM.
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03-24-2015, 11:08 AM
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There is no assumption by me at least that the reformulation powders will be worse. My assumption is that shooters that have developed loads with them are going to have to start over.
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03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
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I like Universal in .45 hardball. Decently accurate and by far the cleanest load I have made. Hope the replacement is as good.
One nice thing about Alliant is the powder is made here, and their powders have been very consistent throughout the years.
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03-24-2015, 07:37 PM
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Clays Powder
Went to a large gun show this weekend and there was not an ounce of Clays in sight.
Stopped at a LGS today on my way to the lake and he had 4 14 ounce containers and I bought them all. They were not cheap but I have used Clays for over 20 years and I don't want to change at this time.
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03-26-2015, 06:04 PM
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Bought three 14 oz bottles of Clays today at $20.49 each. If I see more at this price, I'll grab some.
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