Hello all,

I recently started casting my own Bullets for 9mm and 38/357
After shooting only 10-20 round my barrel accumulates a substantial amout of lead. It is soo bad it greatly affects accuracy.

I use lead wheel weights, air cool, tuble lube with lee alox with a few drips of mineral spirits, resize, and then tumble lube again.

i have read alot on the topic and have a few ideas as to whats wrong
-bullet hardness? compaired to other lead bullets i use my bullets are a bit harder(thumbnail test). the only flaw with that theory is i am getting lead in both my full magnum loads and standard velocity 9mm. I would think they would be the perfect hardness for my magnum load but i guess not.

-bullet molds? as previously stated i tumble lube but my molds are not specifically for that type of lube. My 9mm only have 1 lube groove and my 357 have 3. i have heard it is ok to use with regular molds but im not sure.

-lube? Wondering if i should cut out the mineral spirits. or possibly more lube

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciate
Thanks Paul

Where is your leading? The first few inches of barrel tends to indicate undersized bullets, the last few indicate the lube is not doing its job.

Personally, I would measure my revolver throats, size my bullets to about .001 / .002 over, and lube with a soft lube applied to the lube grooves by the bullet sizer. Wheel weights are a good hardness for all but really hot loads, and most are around BHN-10 / 12.

In a 9mm, I like to cast .001 above grove diameter, and have always had my best luck with GC bullets in this application. Harder the better seems to work in higher velocity 9mm's, and you might want to try dropping your hot bullets into a pail of cold water to add a little hardness.

PS- Wanted to add that I have never been a big fan of tumble lubing except for low velocity target loads. YRMV.

Larry

I have done all the "normal" methods of lubing bullets. Any lube method works on the CORRECT diameter bullet. Revolver bullets need to fit cylinder throats. I now use .358" sizer without leading in all my 38 / 357 ammo.

I have two 9 MM semiautos. Tumble lube from a lee mold without sizing -- no leading. Size bullets above bore diameter.

EDIT: My bullets are cast from 'range scrap' mined from the dirt berm backstop. I drop my bullets onto a cloth rag. The bullets are the plainest, most ordinary possible to cast -- also quick, easy, and cheap. According to conventional wisdom my alox / mineral spirit mix is too thick a coating but I get no leading. My unsized 9 MM bullets are seated in the case and then taper crimped with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die.

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S&WHF 366

1212...first thing to do is get yourself a quality cast bullet sizer/lubricator and start sizing your boolits to the correct diameter of the barrel. That will take care of 95% of your leading problems.

The 9mm will usually require a .355 or .356 sizing die. In the .357 revolver I've been using a .358 for 45 years with zero leading problem.

As to straight wheelweights they will work but you may end up having to add some linotype or bar solder to the mix to make it a little harder...

Bob

Actually it sounds like you have a couple of different things going on at the same time.

Leading in the 1st inch of the bbl:
Undersized bullets/flame cut bullets from being undersized.
Leading the whole length of the bbl:
Too soft of an alloy.
Leading at the end of the bbl/last inch:
Lube problem/there isn't enough lube or didn't stay on the bullet.

There's nothing wrong with tumble lubing or thinning the tumble lube. I use a tumble lube every now and then & mine is also thinned with mineral spirits. I do use 2 separate coats. I had issues when I only used 1 coat (operator error) and they went away with a 2nd coat.

It sounds like your close on the 357's and missed the boat on the 9mm's.

I'd try wd (water dropping) your bullets to see if the leading goes away with the full house 357's.

You need to slug your bore of the 9mm, it's not uncommon to use bullets as big as .358 in the 9mm's.

Reloading dies can and will set you up for failure. The expanders on them are designed for jacketed bullets. It's always a good thing to check what you reload to see what's going on.

Most 9mm dies are setup for a .355 bullet and expand the cases for that size bullet allowing for "springback" and neck tension on that .355 bullet. Why am I bringing this up???? Because you need to pull a couple loaded rounds apart and see if:
The tumble lube is being scrapped off the bullet.
Measure the bullet to see if it's being swaged down to a smaller diameter than what you started with.

Allot of 9mm reloads (myself included) use a 38spl/357 expander to expand the 9mm cases when I reload lead bullets.

I'd try wd'ing the 357 bullets to make them harder and try a couple bullets unsized/larger in the 9mm along with pulling a couple rounds apart to check for swaging and scraping.

And welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Some eye candy, some of the bullets that I cast & swage for the 9mm, 38spl, 357, 44spl, 44mag, 45acp, 223, 308, 30-06.

I cast my RCBS 9mm-124-CN bullets with straight wheel weights and size em to .358" and use SPG lube. They drop at 130gr, with 5.0gr of Power Pistol with a CCI standard SP primer they average 1,111fps out of a M-39 S&W. Good function, accuracy and zero bore leading in M-39, RIA Tactical 1911, Hi-Power and S&W M&P. Try yours at .358" and if your chamber will accept them see how they do.

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Stay safe people!

Good tips above
You will get it worked out
I use .358 diameter for my 38/.357's
In my 9mm I also ended up using .358 diameter bullets
WW should be plenty hard enough
You can also drop your velocities back until you get your lube method sorted.
check out Cast Boolits for more info

From reading this post, I apparently had a batch of undersized bullets that caused leading in the first inch or two after the chamber. As I am sure you know, that lead is a PITA to get out. I fired about 600 out of the 1,000 230 Gr RN bullets I had and finally donated the rest to the Cub Scouts for Pinewood Derby weights.

I've been using plated since then. Maybe I will try some lead again... if the leading is not normal. I would rather go have a cavity filled at the dentist than scrub more lead out of my barrel

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

The gun itself is a variable, especially Smith & Wesson and their common use of EDM rifling, which likes jacketed better than lead. I went so far as to buy a 625 PC after giving up on leading in my 625 JM.

Size counts. Slug barrel, size to .001-.002 over. A lot of leading comes from incorrect size. Air cooled clip-on wheel weights are usually hard enough for your application.
One of the smartest things I ever did was buy a Lyman 450 lubricator sizer. Sized to correct diameter and lubed with a good lubricant, solved a whole lot of problems. I get no leading now.
I've tried the tumble lube method and it's OK if everything is just right but I much prefer a lube/sizer for the job.
Gary

I had always had leading problems with commercial cast bullets and also when I started casting my own from wheel weights. I now mix wheel weights about 50/50 with range scrap or soft lead. No more leading. Softer is generally better - to a point. I tumble lube everything with 45/45/10 lube.

9mm bore size varies a lot. If your gun will take .357 then do .357. Some need .358. Remove your barrel and drop in a loaded round (the "plunk test"). If it goes all the way in it will work. Size as big as you can chamber in your gun. Undersized bullets will leave leading.

I size .357 for 9mm and .358 for 38. My current mold for 38 round nose bullets is close enough to .358 that I don't size them at all. I shoot them as cast with one coat of tumble lube.

I'm new to reloading as well...and loading primarily 38/9mm with cast bullets. As others mentioned you must slug your bore for 9mm. From slugging 3 of mine, it seems a lot of 9mm's are running big these days. My ruger sr9c slugs at .3565. I was using a 356 mold and got terrible leading. Accuracy was excellent for about 20 rounds...then it was a smooth bore... Lol. I went to a 358 mold and things improved greatly. It's the same mold I use for my 38 by the way. I tumble lube with alox. Still getting a tiny amount of lead in the 9mm but I'm tinkering with alloys and lube; though at the current rate of leading I could shoot all day without degrading accuracy. In 38 don't be afraid to push the bullet a little faster. I was after light, plinking and target loads there and I found my loads while accurate were too light. Once I increased the charge a little leading went away and my poi returned to previous sight settings. It was shooting a little low with the light loads.
For cleaning, find some chore boy copper scrubbers. Sometimes you can find them at Walmart. Pull one apart and wrap the strands around your cleaning brush...it'll knock the lead right out of your barrel pretty quick. Do this dry...no solvents or cleaners...those just make the brush slide over the lead instead of grabbing it. I got that tip from someone either here or another board...can't remember but it works very well.
Oh I forgot to mention I'm using a 38 S&W expander in my 9mm dies as well.

Just not enough info here. What bullet mold, what size are you sizing, what dies are you using, how much crimp? All I shoot are lead bullets in everything from 380 to hvy 45colt, from 750-1300fs, no leading.
So give us a bit more info. It always starts with proper size to fit the bore. That is a minimum of 0.001" over bore dia. So in 45acp, 0.452" would be my min. I don't slug bores, my ammo has to run in multiple handguns. Better too large than too small.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Air cooled wheelweight metal is too soft. I learned this the hard way, with severe leading after only six rounds of standard velocity .45 Colt bullets that I had first cast. Drop the bullets out of the mold and into a bucket of water and they will be considerably harder.

Nowadays I pretty much use range scrap lead for my handgun bullets, cast out of the Lee tumble lube mold into water and lubed with Rooster Jacket to save time. I get up to 1200 FPS with minimal leading.

Dave Sinko

A cast bullet should be sized at or about .001" larger than the groove diameter of YOUR barrel. The best way to get a measurement on that is to slug, or have someone slug your barrel and measure it. If the bullet is too small, hot gas gets around the bullet melting the lead to the barrel.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Water dropped bullets for low pressure rds, just not needed. Leading is rarely an alloy problem. It's almost always a fit problem, sometimes a lube issue but rarely an alloy issue at handgun pressures/velocities. You can run pure lead at 38sp & 45acp or Colt pressures, all w/o leading. Water dropping is fine if you need a tougher alloy to withstand max magnum pressures, but in low pressure rds, a bullet too hard, too small, it's gonna lead.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The bullets I cast were 255 gr. RF that were run through an RCBS sizer and soft lubed. They were shot out of my dimensionally perfect Bowen Redhawk revolver at 945 FPS. Despite the CAS loadings that we find today, nobody can argue that 945 FPS is a magnum load. After six rounds, the bore was leaded so badly that the bullets would completely miss a man size target and hit sideways at 10 yards. After water quenching, these bullets gave excellent accuracy and were used for hunting, match use and concealed carry. The only thing that transformed their performance was that trip into the five gallon bucket of water.

Dave Sinko

I had the same problems that you are having. No matter what i did i still had leading in my 586 and 686. The last thing i tried should have been my first. Bought a lyman lube sizer and good hard lube and like magic, no more leading. Not even a little bit.

Just curious, on your dimensionally perfect red hawk,what are the cyl throat dims, what is the slugged bore dia? IMO with more than a dozen magnum revolvers, leading was never fixed by water dropping. It may have worked for you, but it's not a panacea to fix leading in general.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners, Table of Contents - Fryxell/Applegate

The excellent Glenn Fryxell book on casting. READ it.

The vast majority of the time overly hard bullets will result in leading as the relatively low pressure of pistol loads are too weak to OBTURATE the base of the bullet. Elmer Keith referred to it as "slugging up, to fit the bore". As the pressure hits the base of the slug, the base EXPANDS to SEAL the bore. As long as you have adequate lube and the bore is smooth you should not experience lead build up.

If you have a situation where the bullet can not SEAL the bore such as the slug is undersized , or too hard to expand with the pressure generated by that load you will have hot powder gases literally MELTING the lead and COATING the cylinder throats and bore of a revolver. In extreme cases I have seen lead along the inside of the topstrap, between the fame and barrel threads and even on the outside of severely leaded revolvers.

FIT of bullet to throat/bore seems to be the biggest issue. The book goes into how to measure and how to deal with it.

Most commercially cast bullets are cast too hard as well as being too small and the design having a bevel base. A formula for leading.

OP regarding the 9mm. Casting for the nines opens another can of worms. Many bores are .357" yet the normal cast slug is .355" or .356".

And most are bevel base designs as well. I tried with no success to load commercial slugs many years back and gave up. I recently started casting for nines again with much greater success.

I bought an NOE 130 gr, FLAT base mold with the slugs sized to .358" and cast to a relatively soft 8-9 bnh. Loaded in WW cases and given a minimal taper crimp I get zero leading in three different autos. Two SIGS and a Smith 5903.

One has to be careful with the taper crimp as you can crush the slug with too much crimp and your back to square one with a small bullet again. Your finished cartridge will also exhibit a BULGE as the bullet is larger than many of the .355" slugs normally used in that case.

My BHP will not accept the larger slugs. Same for another SIG with a Bar-Sto match barrel. Lead slugs in the nine CAN be a trying experience.

I suggest you go to the CastBoolits forums, there's a LONG running thread there on How-To cast/size/load and nines.

FN in MT

Anyone mention polygonal rifling in most modern pistols? Not recommended to shoot cast from those. I've found a recipe that works in my GLOCK but it's finicky. 1 mil made a difference between failure and works pretty good.

The leading issue I was having was with a modern pistol, but I don't think the rifling is polygonal. I was shooting 230 GR RN lead bullets with 4.8 grains of Bullseye out of a Sig Sauer P220.

Wait, can I say Sig Sauer on this site? Please don't ban me

The bullets were Oregon something or another. Anyway, they would lead the barrel real bad after just 50 rounds. I had to just about wear out a new bronze brush each time to scrub it out. About as fun as a hernia.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Flat or bevel based and how HARD?

I melt wheel weights, add some pure lead to soften the alloy and cast 230 gr RN at .453" from an ancient H&G mold. Size to .452" and lube with white label alox or their blend.

I get very good accuracy in; Wilson CQB, EB Kobra Carry, SA std old 1911 and even in a few revolvers. With near zero leading. I shot IPSC with the Wilson and would clean maybe every month or so after 3-4 matches and practice sessions. The loads shoot THAT CLEAN.

I'll bet the commercial bullets are too hard as well as possibly undersized. Are you giving a heavy taper crimp as well? That can squeeze the diameter down as well.

As previously stated...READ the Fryxell treatise at the above link. LEARN how to make cast bullets work.

FN in MT

They were flat based, but I don't know how hard. I donated the rest of them, so I don't have the box. I was using what I call a "medium" crimp on them. That is contact + 3/4 turn on a LEE Factory Crimp Die.

Maybe after I shoot up the 2,500 Berry's I have on hand, I will TRY some more bare lead. They are definitely cheaper.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

I got away from using the factory crimp die altogether. I found it was swaging my lead bullets even on a light crimp....but I am running 358's so that could be why. The bullet seat crimp works well for me- I do randomly plunk test my rounds as I reload though. No worries about bullets being pushed further into the shell case...takes a lot of force to move the bullet with just the seat crimp die. Ymmv

I bet the carbide sizing ring was squeezing them down a bit. I have heard of some people knocking the sizing ring out. I honestly can't remember if there was resistance past the sizing ring on the lead bullets I was using. It has been 7 or 8 years since I made those loads. I suppose it is possible I was swaging the bullets.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

As one who shoots air cooled ww in a rifle to 2000 fps I respectfully disagree. It is all about fit.

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Front sight and squeeze

Oregon Trail bullets are really hard. If you used 0.451" with fast powders, that was likely the leading issue; too small & too hard.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Dump the LFCD, is part of the problem. They can size the bullet inside the case. Also sounds like your over crimping. Seat & crimp, then pull the bullet & measure the base. Same for plated btw, LFCD, krap for soft bullets.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Lead is very easy to get out, especially from a short handgun barrel. Get a 38/357 bore mop and make sure it fits snugly in your barrel. Wrap a couple of strands of Copper Chore Boy or Bronze Wool around it and run it up and down the barrel. When you pull it out you will see lots of glittery dust so you probably want to do this outdoors. It shouldn't take more than a minute to get the lead out of a barrel.

Great tip. Sure beats the way I was doing it.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Dad simply shoots four or five jacketed rounds after a firing lead bullets at the range. l do the same. lf it works for Dad then it works for me.

You may be right, but plated are not usually oversize like lead bullets. I'd guess the LFCD is only a potential problem, when the bullet is over nominal caliber diameter.