Waiting for the arrival of my Security Six. I've never loaded .38 or .357 but am wondering this: I do what amounts to a midrange 44spl load in magnum brass. It's a sweetheart and I can shoot my 629 all day. Can I do a similar thing - a .38 charge in .357 brass, so I don't have to fiddle with different cases?

Of course

As you already know, expect that the same charge in the larger case will result is a slightly lower velocity.

chaparrito that is a neat idea I wouldn't have to adjust dies. To bad I bought 500 38 cases and 100 357.

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

I would be careful.... Check to make sure that your load is at least at the starting level for .357. Too little powder could result in a bullet stuck in the barrel. I wouldn't advise going below the minimum .357 loads if you are using .357 brass.

No problem in duplicating any .38 Special ballistics in a .357 case, but it won't be the same powder charge, usually a little greater. I do it sometimes. You don't have to adjust the sizing die, but you will have to adjust the expansion plug and the seating die. There are rings available that go under the die locking nut to use dies set for .38 Special with the .357 case. Sometimes the rings come with new die sets.

Those rings would be handy I will have to search for them.

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Redding Die Spacer .135 Height (38 Special 357 Mag)

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/189...die-spacer-kit

best practice is to load .38 appropriate loads in .38 cases and .357 appropriate loads in .357 cases

Use the minimum or start load of 357 Mag in 357 brass.

The loads were developed for the particular brass and as imakmst just wrote best to use the specific loads.

If you want light 357 loads look for the lowest velocity and pressure of published loads

Start loads of some powders in 357 Mag are pretty mild

Depends on what powders you have,

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Still Running Against the Wind

The same common sense you used when doing this in 44 would apply to 38. Presumably you don't have a rigid adherence to only what is published in books since you do this in 44 already.

The Lyman cast bullet handbook gives a lot of lower-velocity recipes for the .357. Most of the starting loads given have slightly higher MVs than .38 Special and use slower powders. My experience has mainly been in the use of Unique powder with 148 grain DEWC bullets, and I have duplicated factory .38 Special load performance with no problems. The advantage is that you get a slightly shorter bullet jump to the forcing cone using the .357 case vs the .38 Special with the bullet seated at the case mouth.

and you don't have to clean that pesky 38 carbon ring. I've had good luck using "cowboy loads" in Unique, Trailboss, HP-38/Win231, and AA#5 in magnum cases loaded at minimum 357 levels

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

I have a lot of reasons for loading .38 special loads into my .357 cartridges. There's no danger of reduced loads in these cartridges until you stick a bullet in the barrel. In fact my .357 defense loads for home are in the gray area between .38 and .357.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Thanks for the replies!

There are MANY 38 special loads that will shoot excellent groups
in a 357 Magnum, be they lead, jacket or the newer coated bullets.
Some don't like the "Build up" the shorter case leaves in the
cylinder that supports the longer 357 case but with the correct
cleaning units, this is removed in quick order and good as new.

Most shooters shoot 70% or more 38's in the magnum for their
training sessions but the full loads are also fun to shoot.

Enjoy the new arrival.

I started reloading .357 Magnums with .38 Special loads in about 1978. I have never had a problem as described in the above quote. I have even used Bullseye/wadcutter loads in a 4" .357 (3.2 gr. Bullseye) and all bullets reached the target at 50' and quite accurately too...

I have found that 148 grain full wadcutter bullet loads using 4 grains of Unique in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases differ very little in MV and grouping performance in the same gun. That may not be true for every revolver.

As for that "Ring"..................

just go to the hardware store and look at the washers for the 1-11/8 " bolts with the thickness that you need.

Being an Ironworker, I had no problem finding one that worked.

edit 4/29 (post 20 )
This construction washer is thinner than the store bought, I guess?
store .165"......... this washer used in "Red Iron" is only .141" thick.

I have shot 38 loads in 357 brass for years without any problems.
Some off my favorite plinking loads are 38 +++++p or 357 ----p, that grey area between the two. I have never used 38 start data when I do this mid 38 and up. 231/HP38 under a 158 lswc in the Grey area is one of my favorites.

The problem with that approach is that SAE specifications for 7/8", 1", and 1-1/8" washers include a 0.165" standard thickness. My RCBS rings actually measure 0.129" thick (although theoretically they should be 0.135" thick). I suppose one could somehow work down the thickness of a 0.165" thick washer, but it would take some time and effort to do so.

There is no difference between .38 and .357 brass except for that teenitesy extra length to keep from putting .357 rounds into a .38 revolver. It serves no other purpose. I start my shooting rounds with .38 and switch to magnums later in the session. By using .357 brass for all of them I don't have to clean the crud rings out of my cylinder at the range.

IF you think that extra bit of volume is going to make a difference, add 1/10 of a grain to your .38 loads.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

"IF you think that extra bit of volume is going to make a difference, add 1/10 of a grain to your .38 loads."

As I said earlier, I did some testing some years ago using 4 grains of Unique with DEWC bullets in both .357 and .38 Spl cases, couldn't see much difference in MVs or grouping using my nice ca. 1960 Colt .357 Magnum.

I've come to the same conclusion, just giving whoever worries about this a 'correction' factor so they can feel better.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

For the sake of logistical simplicity, I've never loaded .38 in .38 SPL brass. I really can't think of a reason to do it since I don't own any guns that only chamber .38 SPL.

Edit:
Probably should mention I'm pushing 158's around 1000fps...so maybe call it .38 +P

Risky. Light-load rupture is a possibility. Small amounts of fast powder in large cases can lead to flash over, where the powder is settled in the case below the primer hole. Upon ignition, the primer flash goes over the powder, instead of through it. Unpredictable results can occur. You may never have a problem. mikld reports he has never had a problem. Your gun may blow up.

I wouldn't do it, especially with fast powders.

In all my years I have never heard of anything even close to your story about flash over and blowing up a gun. And frankly, it sounds like something someone made up as a joke. Can you provide any verification of this ever happening?

I have used 11.5gr of 2400 in .357 cases with a 158gr LSWC or LRN bullet. MV around 840fps. Never any problem.
Jim

No one has ever been able to duplicate a light load causing an explosion. IF the load is so light that a bullet sticks in the barrel, the next shot will cause a problem, most likely damaging the gun. A low charge may cause erratic ignition and inconsistent results, but not an explosion. That's the official stance.

It is conjectured that what people consider to be explosions from light charges of fast powder, are that they are actually double charges of fast burning powder which WILL blow up a gun.

The unofficial stance is that, for my own purposes and using a snub for minimal barrel friction, I've experimented with low charges and have never in 30+ years had a failure to fire, a hang fire or an explosion.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I use 357 cases for all my loads. Mostly, in the plus P range, or somewhat above. My revolvers tend to be on the small size, and I don't do much full powdered loading.
I read on this forum that increasing 38 SPL loads by 15% will give the same velocity as using 38 SPL cases. I have found that to be a good starting point. I can make adjustments from there. I like that I can work anywhere from light target to full MGN in the same cases. One of the advantages of hand loading.
I do make sure that there is 357 MGN data for the same bullet and powder, and that I am within the data. Some powders might not be suitable for "scaling up". At least, it is safe to assume that . An example might be a very fast powder that might get into a non linear range by adding 15%.

Best,
Rick

If you want specific .38 spl level load data for the .357 mag look at the "cowboy action" data. You will find they are .38 spl loads for the .357 mag case.

This has been my experience pretty much exactly, even starting around the same year. In many thousands of .38 Special loads - various powders, bullets, and charge weights - put up in .357 cases, I've never experienced the slightest problem.

The fact they tried shows they were concerned.

Light Loads can Explode Page

You can't always believe what you read on the internet.

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Life is good!

I wouldn't have thought a tenth of an inch would make such a difference. I also loaded many 2.7 grain loads of Bullseye in 357 brass before I bought a 38 revolver. Would a DEWC or HBWC seated flush make this a non-issue or less of an issue in light of the case space occupied by the bullet?

I agree. It's actually .135 inch, the .357 case is 1.29" and the .38 is 1.155. That translates into about a 12% larger volume for the .357, but in practice it would be more than that because the .135 difference would remain after you subtract for the case head thickness (assumed to be equal, or nearly so, for both cartridges) and the portion of the bullet in the case to get the usable volume for charging powder.

I didn't bother to measure, but if we assume as a back-of-the-envelope calculation that the case head is about .125 (i.e., an eighth inch) thick and a 148 gr HBWC is a half-inch long, and seated flush with the case mouth, then the amount of the case left over for powder is about .67" vs. .53", about a 26% difference.

But I still agree with you; I can't believe that much of a difference in case volume can potentially result in a Kaboom with light loads. And that's really the question (i.e., .38 vs .357), not whether any light load can ever produce a detonation, which is what the thread seems to have morphed into, and I think the jury is still very much out on that question.

Aw shucks. What's .035 between friends?

I have to blow the BS whistle on the blowup theory, at least involving handgun loads. Were there any truth to it, there would be all sorts of warnings posted all over the usual reloading information sources. I am certain that any handgun blowups involve either multiple charges or mistaking one powder for another. The only situation I am aware of where there might be some kernel of truth goes back many years, I think maybe to the 1970s, and involves the 6.5X55 Swedish. There were some reports that greatly reduced loads of slow-burning powders (and I think the specific powder involved was either IMR 4350 or IMR 4831) had caused rifle blowups. That started a flurry of activity to try to duplicate the event(s), but without success. I seem to remember there was even an article about it in the American Rifleman at the time, including the various theories as to how it could have happened. Anyway, the blowup stories dropped off the front pages. I tried an internet search to see if I could find anything about it, but I couldn't locate anything. Maybe someone else knows the story and can post a link.

Magnum brass for all loads works beautifully.
In my experience, the difference in fps between the longer & shorter brass is minor. As mentioned, just add a tenth to get it where you want it. For any load other than ridiculously marginal it works great.

Ridiculously marginal = your shorter brass load is barely usable on a cold day.

BTW, to clarify my question, The light-load-rupture issue was said to be related to light charges in large cases. Does a 357 case with a flush seated wadcutter even qualify as a large case, relative to the usual 2.7-3.2 grain powder loadings?

the .137 long cylinder times the area of a .357 dia circle =

.01351 in3 = the extra volume in a .357 chamber

.1000 in3 = the volume of a .38 case

eyeballs at about 13-14% difference in volume

Rough numbers, but yeah, I agree with flyfish

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Reports from users prompted them to test for the light load thing.


PS: The Speer #14 has a warning on every data page not to use loads lighter than those shown, due to possibility of sticking a bullet in the barrel. In the text it states that light load explosions have never been duplicated.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If a light load in a 357 case could explode it would also mean that the same load in a 38 case could explode if the bullet wasn't seated deep enough. I don't believe it.
I have shot off plenty of light 38 loads in 357 cases. The worst case scenario is that you drop into 38 S&W(short) velocity ranges.

Completely irrelevant in this discussion, we are talking about 38 loads in 357 cases. No one is advocating downloading below published 38 data.

I've been loading swaged HBWC + 2.8 gr Bullseye in .357 cases for years.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Smaller loads than mine are safe in .38 Special brass (2.5 gr. Bullseye w/148 gr. WC) and the 1/10th inch longer .357 case will have no more "flash over" tendencies than a .38 Special case. I've read of slow powders underloaded causing Kabooms, but I've also read it has never been duplicated in a laboratory or in the field. I've not seen any factual reports of a flashover from any reliable source either. Theories are great, and present a lot of thought, but real life experience has it's merits too...

Or just attempted to disclaim an old wive's tale...

And the max OAL difference is smaller still. 1.550" vs 1.590". So a .38 loaded at max length would have very little case capacity difference to a .357 at max length with the same bullet. It's possible the .357 will have thicker brass at the head and they'd have very similar internal capacities when the same bullet is seated at max length in both. Who knows. Who cares. It seems a pretty pedantic thing to think about when talking about cases that are quite large relative to the loads in question. It's not like a .38 Special case is puny and all full-up with light loads of fast powders, but a .357 is cavernous by comparison.

The OP could always seat the bullets to .38 lengths in his .357 brass if he's afraid the internets will explode his gun, though.

There are some who routinely load what are essentially full power .357 Magnum-level loads using .38 Special cases, and that is fairly easily done. As earlier mentioned, the main reason for the 0.135" longer case of the .357 was so that they could not be loaded into a .38 Special revolver. Ditto for the .44 Special and .44 Magnum. It is not too difficult to develop .44 Magnum-level performance loads using .44 Special cases.