I got a pound of H110 and a pound of No.9 today to get my Powder Puff 357 mag loads respectiful.

QUESTION Never used H110 before and went to Hodgdon site data and these seam over hot.
125gr HDY XPT 21.0gr start Vel 1,881 Pressure 38,400 / 22.0 Max vel 1,966 Pressure 41,400

158gr HDY XPT 15gr start 1,418 Pressure 28,600 / 16.7gr Max Vel 1,591 Pressure 40,700

I know I my GP-100 only has a 4" barrel unlike their 10" so I am not going to match the velocity but what about the pressures? My X-Treme plated bullets probably is going to handle these speeds either. I am not loading any till I here some replies. Going to go look at the No.9 data. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

My personal experience with H110 and 158g jacketed HP (XTP) bullets is that 15.5g is OK, but 16g is too much. When I tried 16.og it did not hurt my gun but several cases split and I got some hot blowback in my face.
I have settled on 15.2g as an accurate load that shoots well in all my guns and doesn't beat the **** out of my hand.

Pretty sure you're Xtreme plated slugs are only rate to 1200fps. I tried pushing that envelope with their 240gr .44's and got very poor results. I found those slugs work very nicely over a fast shotgun flake.

I think my GP-100 will handle it but my wrist not so well. Will be happy with 1,300 I don't need to complete burn up the targets. Don

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M&P X5

H110 is a poor powder for reduced loads. It is designed for full power applications in the .357 mag. I would not use plated bullets at these speeds. I would stick to hard cast, or jacketed. Even with your 4 inch barrel, H-110 will still provide about as high a velocity as you are going to get from it. Pretty impressive muzzle blast as well. Any "book load" from a reliable source "should" be safe. But, each gun is different, and it always pays to start with starting loads, and work up, checking for pressure signs. H-110 and W-296 (both the same powder) are excellent full power powders for magnum revolver cartridges. 2400 is also a good high velocity powder for the .357 mag., and it is a little more versatile than H-110 for loads that are magnum strength, but not loaded to full power. I have not used AA#9 powder.

Larry

Th SAAMI specification for maximum average pressure for the .357 Magnum is 35,000 psi.

Converting copper crusher CUP measurements to piezo electric measurements in PSI is not an apples to apples comparison.

The Bramwell formula approximates it for pressures between 28,000 and 54,000 CUP:

piezo = 1.52 * crusher - 18,000

Using this formula, 41,400 CUP equates to roughly 35,568 psi.

That puts the data a bit over the SAAMI spec, but again it's only an approximation.

It's safe to say though that the both loads are probably on the warm to hot side.

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Xtreme suggests a maximum velocity of 1500 fps or less, but in my experience you can go to about 1750 fps with a slow powder in a longer barrel.

I've shot them in .45 Colt loads as well as in .30-30 and I noted that I could push them up to as much as 1750 fps, and get very good accuracy.

For example, my Winchester 1885 High Wall will shoot 150 gr plated Xtreme bullets into 10 shot groups of about 1.25" at 100 yards at 1500 fps and it will still produce 10 shots groups under 1.5" at 100 yards at 1750 fps (30" barrel). However, at 1800 fps I start seeing indications of jackets getting stripped with some minor key holing becoming evident in the much larger 100 yard groups (4-6").

In a short barreled revolver the pressure needed to get those same velocities will be higher and the bullets may not tolerate it nearly as much as in a 20" carbine or 30" rifle barrel, with the result that you may start being indications of jackets being damaged and the bullets skidding in the rifling at lower velocities in the 1500 fps neighborhood.

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The reality is though that with the 1200 fps velocities you're expect with a 158 gr bullet in a 4-6" revolver, you're not going to be shooting a plated bullet fast enough to cause problems.

Remember strong crimp for H110 and mag primers.

I have used Xtreme Plated Bullets over 16gr of H110 for .357 Magnum with no issues.

I use lead and plated for target work with slall amounts of Unique or faster powders.
Speer, Winchester, Remington, Hornady etc. bullets for all my "Magnum" loads at around
1200 fps or faster with Unique or slower burning powders.

I would save those two powders for hi-vel loading.

What he said.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Subjectively, it does with full power 357, 41 mag and 44 mag loads. Generates less pressure at similar velocities also. You just have to remember that H110/W296 is to be used for full power loads only.

Bruce

Sounds good I will keep the H110 for full power loads and use the No.9 for mid range loads. Don

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M&P X5

I cannot speak for 357mag but I've found mid range loads with #9 in 44 mag get dirty pretty quick. I've found most powders get dirty as you download, some just quicker than others. For mid range stuff for both calibers I've been loading HS-6 with good results.
I've been using #9 loaded near max for my 44 lever rifle. Works great there!

.357 chronograph results - Ruger Forum

Just FYI. 1300 fps might be just out of reach from a 4".

I would be hesitant to push max magnum loads when using a totally different bullet, even if they are the same weight.

"Converting copper crusher CUP measurements to piezo electric measurements in PSI is not an apples to apples comparison.
The Bramwell formula approximates it for pressures between 28,000 and 54,000 CUP:

piezo = 1.52 * crusher - 18,000

Using this formula, 41,400 CUP equates to roughly 35,568 psi.

That puts the data a bit over the SAAMI spec, but again it's only an approximation.It's safe to say though that the both loads are probably on the warm to hot side. "

THe old CUP and newer Piezo PSI chamber pressure measurements are in no way comparable. Measurement methods are entirely different as are the pressures being measured. CUP is greatly influenced by the specific caliber being measured and the propellant used, the piezo gauge PSI measurement is not. There is no valid way to convert one to another in absolute and meaningful terms. I doubt that any ammunition maker on earth still uses the copper crusher method.

First, cross Hodgdon off your list for data on H110. You will not EVER match their posted velocities and IMO their data is just too warm. I use Hornady bullets and Hornady data for my 357 Magnum loads and have found the Hornady bullets and data provides for some VERY accurate loads.

BTW, my pet load for my 357 Mag rifles is 14.8 grains of H110 with a 158 grain Hornady XTP. Out of a 20 inch barrel this load clocks in at 1615 fps and it's good for 1 MOA out of my 1892 Winchester using a rear tang peep sight.

Note, this load is actually BELOW Hodgdon's starting data for this bullet and the accuracy is bloody marvelous. Kind of puts those statements that you can't run H110 bellow maximum into the dust bin where they belong. The key to getting good results with H110 is a good firm crimp combined with a Magnum primer.

I will also note that I don't recommend H110 for use in a revolver load. I think that this powder is just too slow to be really efficient out of a barrel shorter than 10 inches or so. As a result you get a lot of powder igniting after the bullet has left the barrel which produces excessive muzzle flash and a report that can be annoying.

However, if you want to be the loudest person present at the handgun range you are shooting at I can tell you that 21.5 grains of H110 with a 125 grain XTP won't actually blow your gun up but will sound a lot like you did. This experiment was an attempt by me to get a 1400 fps load using that 125 grain XTP and I managed 1370 fps from my 4 inch 620 but won't be repeating this experiment. Because the flash ring from the B/C gap is an least 3 feet in diameter, the muzzle flash extended a reported 20 feet downrange, and the muzzle blast was actually LOUDER than a 500 Magnum. Ten rounds also etched a pretty good line in the near virgin top strap on my 620 which features a B/C gap of just 0.006 inch.

Accurate #9. I think it's a fantastic choice for 357 Magnum Handgun loads using Hornady's 158 grain XTP. My load with this combination is 11.1 grains and out of my 6 inch Dan Wesson it clocked at 1150 fps. Granted that's not a full power Magnum but it groups under 1.5 inch at 25 yards for me and it's neither punishing on me or my revolvers. Beyond it's accuracy is it's a relatively low flash load and the muzzle report is about the same as the 357 Sig.

Don,

As mentioned before, Xtreme makes two different plated bullets, their standard (SPB) plated & their double (HPCB) plated bullets which they rate 1200fps & 1500fps max, respectively. The later should be fine with your H110 & AA9 but the former would be better with your CFE-Pistol powder. Which bullets do you have?

PS: The only squibs I've ever had were with AA9 in moderate 45 Colt loads. Use magnum primers with it.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

H110 is a great powder for the 44 magnum, not so great for the 357,
especially out of 4" barrels. Older Lyman data went up to 17.7 grs
with a 158 gr Hornady JHP at 42,000 cup which was within the pressure
standards as measured by the cup method. The test barrel velocities
listed by Hodgdon are a joke. 21.0 grs under a 125 gr Sierra JHP ran
1335 out of my 4" S&W 28-2. With a 158 gr JHP I doubt if you could
hit 1200 fps out of a 4" barrel with any H110 listed load. 17.2 grs
under a 150 gr Sierra JHP hit 1344 fps out of my 8 3/8" 27-2 but only
a pathetic 1131 fps out of my 4" 28-2. Muzzle blast and blow-back
are nasty. H110 just isn't a good powder for the 4" 357. The loaders
using around 15 grs or so might be disappointed if they ever chronoed
their loads.

I didn't get the heavy plated but these should hold up as long as I keep them between 1200 and 1300 fps. I think with this gun it is going to be hard getting 1300 anyway. Time for a long barrel 44 Mag. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Does anyone have experience with using H110 for 38 Special (Hornady 158 gr XTP, Remington brass)? I cannot find load data for it.

I only use 2 sources for load data - My Hornady 9th Edition book & Hodgdon's online data.
Neither one shows any load data for any .38 Special load with H110, not even +P.

I think H110 is too much powder for .38 Special.

There is usually a reason why there is no data for it.

It is a slow Magnum Powder and the 38 special is a low pressure non Magnum. Even in +P 38 specials H110 is not a good choice.

Yes there are goofy people and articles out there about loading 357 levels in 38 special, but not generally a good idea,

The 38 Special does better with faster powders and lower pressure.

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Still Running Against the Wind

When I used H110 in 357 loads, I found that 15.5 grains with a 158g XTP was optimal for my 6" M686. Going to 15.7 grains actually reduced velocity in my 686, but not so in my GP100. Anyhow, I found that I could not achieve 1200 fps with my 686 using H110. When I tried 16.0 grains, I got split cases and blowback; so I concluded that was too much.
I have switched to Alliant 2400. I load 14.5 grains with a standard SP primer. Easily exceeds 1200 fps in my guns and I am not near max load.

I did get the 125gr XTP up to 1544 with H110. No longer Puff the dragon loads these really breathed fire and a lot of it. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Hey Don,
What about the AA#9? Did you do any loads with it?

Just got 5 pounds of #9 and would like to hear some results.
Thanks

Whatever decision you make, please don't relegate that AA #9 to the back corner of your shelf, never to be seen again. The most accurate load I ever shot out of my 357 Redhawk was with AA #9 and my own hard cast 180s. I won't quote the powder charge because the handloading cops would take me off in custom cuffs, but the revolver shot one ragged hole at 50 yards. Granted, it was from a rest, but so what!

AA #9 is a wonderful powder, and fwiw, 18 grains behind a 250 hard cast in a 44 Mag is pretty hard to top. And I never used mag primers with it, either. It just shot. Period

No I got tired of doing test loads with the 357 when the chrono wouldn't read them at the indoor range. I joined the outdoor range but and ran these last loads of H110 and that worked fine. It has just been to hot to mess with it outdoors. Will work with them when it cools down. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Yeah, I had to lay off shooting this summer. Its been too hot here since June. Now the highs are over 100 degrees and 90% RH. This powder was ordered before Christmas and just shipped today, and now ill have to wait till probably November to try it out.

With some weights of bullets in .357 2400 gives up very little to 110/296 and it's a bit more versatile to boot.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I tested some No 9 recently in 357 with my hand cast 165g WFN GC. The below were fired from my 686-5 Plus MG 4" barrel. Starline brass and primers were CCI 550 magnums.

11.0 avg 1179
12.0 avg 1231
12.5 avg 1254
13.0 avg 1274
13.5 avg 1298

From the same revolver using the same components H-110 didn't fair as well. I guess the 4" barrel just isn't enough to allow H-110 to reach its potential.

16.0 avg 1202
16.5 avg 1250
17.0 avg 1233 This one went down in velocity and that's typically a bad sign so I consider the 16.5g load as max.

To me, No 9 seemed to have somewhat less blast and flash than H-110 as well. I liked it. It did really well in 44 Mag for me too.

Mark in GA