I've started my loading hobby on a Lyman Spartan. I really don't see loading anything but pistol in .45, 9mm and maybe 38 special. Although it could increase I currently don't shoot more that 200 to 300 rounds a month and I can see myself getting into something besides a single stage press.

I'm not really looking for suggestions on which brand of press but where does a turret press fit into the grand scheme of presses. Why would I select a turret over a progressive, or visa versa, based on my shooting needs? Turrets seem to be quite a bit cheaper but when I upgrade I want to do it once, if that's possible.

I shoot the same amount as you, maybe a bit more and I have a system that uses all turret presses. I've bought used Lyman All Americans for $60 to $100 each and mounted them on 3/4" plywood along with an RCBS powder measure (also bought used). I have one for each caliber so I can change calibers in 15 - 20 seconds and can load 100 rounds in around 35 minutes. Definitely not Dillon speed but I love using the old equipment and I haven't had to switch or adjust a die in years.

Progressive presses have more features to help you load faster. If you are reloading pistol and you think this is something you will do for years then spend the money to get a high quality progressive press. I loaded all my guns for 30 years on the RCBS Rock Chucker. About five years ago I bought a Dillon 550B. Big upgrade. Now, I am slowly adding all my rifle calibers as well. My advice would be to find someone in your area that has both the turret and progressive presses and try out as many as you can. Good luck.

The Turret press and the only one that AUTO indexes (LEE) increases your output a little simply by not having to handle the piece of brass 3 or 4 times.

With single stage loading you batch load and handle the brass a lot, with a turret the round is finished. Not as fast as a Progressive but in between that and a single stage,

Conservative production is a 150 round per hour with auto index, and say 100 rounds single stage. Some can get around 200 with auto index. That is priming on the press and powder drop on the press.

Th manual index turrets are almost as fast but you have to turn it each step but still eliminates changing dies and touching the brass 4 times. The dies are all set in the turret so to change calibers just put on another turret.

The LCT can be a single stage manual index or auto index. all

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Still Running Against the Wind

I load 7 hand gun calibers. I'm using the Hornady Lock N Load progressive. I can switch dies within seconds. The powder measure takes several minutes to set up if I'm changing powder capacity from large to small or vice versa. It's very easy to switch out the large or small cylinder. Just a few minutes if using the same charge cylinder and just adjusting the powder.
I used a single stage press for years and I can really appreciate the progressive style.

One thought... Unless you really want to load, and you are going to load a lot...think about the cost of the type and amount of ammo you use. One can spend a lot of money to reload and not load that much. So the savings is minimal if at all.

I shop carefully for the components and for loaded ammo and I have some great sources. Then I see some great ammo deals at times too. So for me, the volume is the real difference.

A turret is a faster ss press. You leave the dies setup in the tool head & process one rd thru all the steps. My issue with one vs say a Dillon 550, it's a one trick pony. You are still pulling the handle the same number of times. So while an upgrade, it's a minimal one over a ss press.
The 550 can be run as an inverted turret, running one rd thru the entire process. Unlike a turret, you can run it as a progressive & get one rd with each pull if the handle. Go slow, go fast, but you will do less work on any progressive vs any turret.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Oh, I'm definitely hooked on the process and so far am really enjoying it. I know how I am and it's only a matter of time before I go beyond the single stage. Just starting to think about the options?

flyrobb,

The determining factor here is how rapidly you burn through ammunition. High-volume shooters eventually will tire of the long hours they have to sit at their single-stage presses in order to keep up with their shooting requirements. They need progressive machines to churn the rounds out quickly.

The turret, as has been stated, is a little faster than the single stage but still considerably slower than a progressive. I use a turret press and probably always will, because I don't shoot enough to justify investing in a progressive. My custom has been to use the cold winter months to load all I will need for the warmer part of the year when I can shoot. At 2-300 rounds a month a turret would probably be sufficient for you, but only you and your schedule can determine if it would do the job quickly enough to suit you. If you're like most folks I know, you have other important demands on your time and can only spend so much of that time at the loading bench.

Best wishes in your choice,
Andy

Very good points. I keep saying I'm going to get out and shoot more then there's, work at work, work at home, work on the cabin, throw in a little fly fishing and a month goes by and no shooting at all. Just ain't right.

I can see where more efficient reloading would result in more shooting though. I do know I am more conservative when shooting factory .45's vs reloads.

I like being able to prep my .357 brass fully without removing it from the press. I deprime/resize at sta 1, then flick it to sta 2 and expand/reprime. Much faster than having to move each piece of brass in and out of the press for each operation.
Same for finishing. After charging all the rounds in a loading block to compare charges, It's back into the press for seating at sta 3, then flick to sta 4 for crimp.

For .45 auto where I can see the charges more clearly in the press, I put the powder measure at sta 3 and process each piece of brass all the way through the 5 stations, never having to remove them until they're complete, kind of a 'semi-progressive' mode.
I chose a turret over a progressive because I want to be able to concentrate on 1 cartridge at a time and manually operate my powder drop, but still have more speed than a single stage.

What's funny is I still look for excuses to buy a high end single stage like a Forster Co-ax or RCBS Summit, but then I sit down at my T-7 turret and that goes away.

Dammit!
Now I have that wanderlust again. Thinking about a Summit single stage with a Hornady lock and load adapter and short handle for .357, 30-30 and ram priming. I could leave the T-7 permanently set up for .45 auto.

You already know progressives are faster than (I'll talk only Lee) Turrets are faster than single stage.

Caliber changeovers and setup time are exactly the reverse . . . single stage is faster than Turrets are faster than progressives. Of course, if you can leave the powder measure and priming system exactly the way they were for the previous caliber . . . either by buying extra parts or presses . . . then Turret and progressive changeover can be very fast, but now the equipment costs are higher.

So, the important thing to look at is your volume . . . not necessarily your shooting volume (although that's a factor), but your reloading batch size. If you do 100 rounds per caliber per reloading session, and you are talking pistol, A Lee Turret is a good buy. Low cost, good ammo, and you won't wear the press out.

But if you can get your batch sizes up to (eg) 1,000 rounds, then progressives make a lot of sense. A half-hour of changeover/setup time (or less if you buy extra parts) and 2+ hours of reloading is a total of 3 hours . . . two calibers . . . 6 hours to get 2,000 rounds. That's somehwere between 7 and 10 months' shooting provided for. But if you do 100 round batches of each caliber on a progressive, you are talking about far more time spent reloading because of the changeovers. And far less of a speed gain . . . at a significantly higher equipment cost.

At your volume, a Lee Turret will give quick payback followed by a return on your investment thereafter. It will take twice or three times as long to payback an investment in a progressive.

Progressives also take a bit longer to learn . . . when suddenly the press seems to jam up, what caused it? And if you are old like me, and shoot low volumes, you don't use the press that often with larger batch sizes . . . and you forget stuff. Or at least I do lol. So it takes longer to get proficient with progressive presses. And perhaps more patience.

Analyze yourself, your wants and needs, and make a choice

I liked my Redding T7 when I had it. The biggest downside that I found was changing out and setting up the powder through expander for the RCBS Uniflow. In hindsight I could have bought more of the die bodies and had them set up for each caliber. When I got in a Dillon 550 I thought for quite a while about making the switch over--mostly regarding the extra cost involved--since I already wasn't happy with switching caliber on the T7 (powder-through & expanding adjustment)--I was looking at the cost of the quick caliber conversion kits and extra caliber conversion which added nearly $300 in cost. It was nice having 3 handgun calibers set up in the T7 turret, but several would not clearance the rear of the frame--so it couldn't be rotated fully around and you would have to still move dies in and out. While not as fast as the Lee Classic Turret, the T7 was still faster than single stage as you could have all your equipment right in 1 spot and not have to move brass out of press to powder measure, and you could rotate the turret and complete 1 round.

Here was my setup with the T7.


Here is my 550 setup

Help me understand you here, Twoboxer. I have used both of the above and changeover with my Lee Classic Turret is just as fast if not faster than my single stage was. All one has to do is get additional turret heads and have the next caliber's dies installed in them, give the one being used a twist and lift it out, and slip the next one in. Then, if the next caliber is a different diameter, unsnap and remove the shellholder from the ram and snap the next one in. Are you thinking of a different brand press, such as novalty's in the above post??

Andy

I started with a Rock Chucker and expect to have till I depart this world. They tell me I can't take it with me so my kids will have it. I use it as my power/rifle press.

I like the control of a single stage. There are checks I like to do.

I have an RCBS turret I got on sale. My process is similar to others but let me run through it.

I size/decap then a turn of the turret and I bell the case mouth. The speed increase comes from not having to remove the case and replace it in the shell holder. May seem small but it adds up.

I sometimes tumble to clean out the primer pockets. I prime with a hand primer. Then I charge all the cases then do my checks. Visual comparison and random sampling of charges on the scale.

Then I return to the press for bullet seating. A turn of the turret then crimping. Done.

It speeds me up but allows me to get my QC checks in. You should get a turret press.

I don't have one but recommend Dillon. Get the BL 550 they run about $250. I get a kick out of telling people they run ads in the American Hunter next to the viagra ads.

It's a slow progressive/turret that can be upgraded to the full speed RL550b progressive press.

I broke my postings down into seperate ones because they cover different subjects.

Caliber change over speed is over rated. I hear a lot about it but it doesn't make sense to change dies quickly since the time is a fraction of total reload time. I have a turret press but I do not have a seperate turret for different calibers. I simply unscrew the dies and screw in what I need. I replaced the cheap single set screw lock rings with the clamp type. I have them adjusted so all I need to do is screw them in to the lock ring stop.

If you plan to load a LOT of calibers and do not need MASS quantities of ammo, the Lee CTP is a very affordable way to go.

The Redding T7 or RCBS are high quality presses but expensive, The prices of extra turrets is far more than LEE.

I load a lot of calibers, my total investment in dies, turrets and the press is much less than just a expensive press alone,

Change over is about 3 minutes or so.

As mentioned it is all about how much ammo you need and how much you want to spend. The price of "What Dillion is Right for me" is not the price of the actual press shown, and it does not come with the Hot model!.

I had a RCBS auto progressive, great machine but actually prefer the turret, but that is for my needs.

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Still Running Against the Wind

You're correct - with inexpensive but still extra cost Lee toolheads all your dies remain set up and go in at once, leaving you only with primer and powder changes if applicable. All in all, can be faster than single stage . . . and if it isn't the difference isn't worth talking about lol.

(I never could get small primers to work on that Lee Turret - maybe that had an influence on my write-up. But . . .)

Yes, other turrets may or may not work that way, or have far higher extra cost for toolheads . . . but I did say I was talking only about the Lee Turret . . . the only one I have used . . . guess I slipped up and let the other turrets in lol.

It's more for us lazy people.

Heck I bought separate 38 special and 357 Mag dies and have them is separate turrets. At the time turrets were $10 or less.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I really don't see my self loading a lot of ammo but enough I can see the single stage getting a bit slow. As far as calibers 45 and 9 will be 99% of my loading and eventually a FEW 38 Special but don't even have dies for it yet. That J frame is to tough on my hand to shoot too much.

It almost appears if I'm going to spend the cash on something like the Redding T7 I might as well go a bit more and go progressive. Make sense or am I missing something here.

The Lee Classic Turret is starting to look like a pretty good fit for what I see myself loading. I already have RCBS dies for the calibers so one other turret would cover both calibers I have. Then, "down the road" if I end up shooting way more than anticipated and go progressive I won't have too much invested in a turret and I'm sure it won't go to waste.

Of course when I hit the Lotto...and you really burst my bubble about the models not coming with the press.

flyrobb,

I have the Lee Classic Turret, an upgrade from my original Lee 3 hole turret press. I still use my RCBS Reloader Special single stage (circa 1978). My shooting volume is about the same as yours 100-200/week between 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp.

I have each caliber set up in it's own turret ($10-$12 each) and a Lee Auto Disk Powder measure installed on each caliber ($24 each). Caliber change-overs take 1 minute or less, fill powder hopper and primer feed and done. I DON'T RELOAD FAST OR IN A HURRY. 100-150 rounds an hour is achievable on the Lee, maybe even more. What I like most, is I have complete control of each round from start to finish and can remove at any time, for any reason.

I've been tempted over the years to try a progressive, but low volume and cost of new equipment just doesn't make sense for me. I've used Lee equipment for years and it has worked well for me. Lots of choices and lots of good suggestions, best of luck in your search :-)

Short and sweet answer .... ones shooting needs are not the only factor one needs to take into account.
on an O frame, you will need to noodle with the dies a little each time you change one out.
Turret, they stay there in proper adjustment, just turn the head to the next station.
its a fairly significant edge over a single stage without imposing the complexity of a progressive.

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it just needs more voltage

I have a lee classic turret. I just love the little press! I can churn out 200 rounds per hour easily enough. Not progressive speeds but it meets my demand just fine.

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Jim

If I wanted to go one better without the complexity of a progressive, a turret would do nicely. Once you set your dies you aren't obligated to change them unless you want to load a different configuration of bullet. If you want to load a different caliber, just change the plate.

A turret is almost as simple as a single stage, but the time tinkering with dies is cut way down.

It's easy to go back and make an adjustment if you don't like what came out, just rotate the right die into place. Right now I have to remove the die and replace it with the one I want (resize, flare) if I don't like what I did first.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Not saying this is the press for you but it just plain works well,is inexpensive, speeds things up a little and caliber changes are easy, I and many others have been using them for years, I load almost all handguns and 4 rifle calibers on it, As I mentioned I had the expensive RCBS auto progressive(as good or better than a Dillon) and went back to the LEE.

From the amount of ammo you said you need, you do not need a progressive, Even if that time comes the Lee is not expensive you can keep it or sell it.

here is a good review.

Real Guns - Lee Classic Turret, It's Not Just For Kids

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Still Running Against the Wind

Another Lee 4-Hole user here. Run through 300-500 handgun rds/month. IMO the Lee Turret Press offers a lot of bang for the buck. I too have a separate turret for each caliber (40 SW, 44 Special and 44 Rem Mag).

Works for me.


I don't do start to finish of a cartridge. I will polish, then size and de-prime, bell and prime, etc in steps.
I use the Frankfort arsenal loading trays with the uniflow. Tap to level and you can run your eyes down the rows and spot a double or a missed charge easily. I'll load 500 or so of a caliber then onto another one.

You can do exactly that on the 550, what makes it such a great press. 100% control as you manually index. You can run it exactly as a turret, move the shell plate instead of the turret. Go fast go slow, a true upgrade to a ss or turret press.
250rds a month, even a ss press is fine. At 250rds a week, now you are in progressive territory IMO. Loafing along on a 550, only 45min a week. If you don't have much time to shoot, you have even less time to reload.
Cost of gear should really never be the issue. So you spend $400 or $200, that is nothing compared to the time list using slower equip. Not to mention, any progressive will cut your handle pulling by 75%.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

You all make some VERY good points both ways. I have plenty to consider.

One thing I am curious about is the Dillon Square Deal B. I don't see it mentioned much. Everyone seems to jump to the 550b. I understand it's for pistol only but what's the skinny with the SD b?

The Square Deal B also uses proprietary dies from Dillon.

Not to argue with you but I think I'm lazier.

I thought about getting separate dies too so I wouldn't have to readjust 38 to 357 and vice versa.

I think the RCBS turrets run $75.

It might take me 2-3 minutes to screw out then screw in 4 dies. I like to do it at a leisurely pace so it may be closer to 5 min.

Swap out the shell holder. Caliber change complete.

Yea that's a deal breaker for me.

Price out what everything you need to change to a different caliber. That should answer your question. (besides the fact that it only uses their dies.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I love my Lee Classic Turret. (I also love my SDB).

I guess I'm conflicted......

You realize two loves can be a real problem. You've obviously not suffered through "Life Time Movies" with your wife.

It starts to get pricey for sure. I want to be able to use the dies I have already purchased in my Spartan and whatever press I end up with. Really leaning toward the LCT.

If you go with a turret, I would suggest picking up a powder check die. On the LCT, this will work if you use the 3 die sets. With .38, that is the way I go. .38 is such a deep cartridge, and the charges are so small, even eyeballing them in a loading block you could miss an over or underthrow if you aren't looking really carefully. The powder check die will catch some pretty small departures IME. I have played around with mine and found I can spot just a few tenths of a grain.

In engineering terms, a turret press reduces the external time over a single station press - not used for production - by simplifying setup. LIke a progressive press, additional turrets are inexpensive.

Typical usage would be to process many cartridges under a single die, then rotate the turret for the next stage. The powder dump would be external, using a loading block so each dump can be inspected before proceeding. Each cartridge would be placed and removed several times, but that's more efficient than rotating the turret for multiple operations on one cartridge, and more consistent.

A turret press might be the best choice if you weigh each powder load or use a bench priming tool, take special care to inspect the results of each stage, or process fewer than 100 rounds or so per session.

A progressive press is three or four times as efficient because each cartridge is handled once, and three or four operations are performed in each stroke. The powder measure is not as accurate as weighing each load, with a standard deviation of about 0.2 grains (or more). Even on the simplest progressive, you can load 300-400 rounds per hour, but avoid pushing the powder load limits closer than about 0.5 grains.

If you have a quick setup, with dies and powder funnels in a separate die block for each caliber, the setup time is minimal. The longest setup is if you change primer size, or if you have an automatic case or bullet feeder.

A progressive press is great if you load 300-400 rounds per session, and/or have several calibers to load, and use mostly the same components for each size.

If you loaded only one handgun caliber, the Square Deal is super.
I have loaded almost 50 yrs and bounced around with a lot of equipment. My Uncle always gave me a ration of **** and told me to quit playing and get a 550B......and I always had a solid reason not to. As friends and family followed his lead they ceased to even mention equipment any longer. I finally did get my own, and I could give you as many reasons as have been discussed here, pro and con, but I can simplify it this easily.........until you get a 550B you will never understand the reason you should have already gotten one.

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In your scenario, with a powder check die, how would the turret be set up? Would priming be a separate operation?

Not really venom. Put locking rings on your dies, it's only screwing them in & out. That adds about 2min to the reloading process, no extra fiddling The issue is how many times you have to handle the case & pull the handle. Why a turret is only a marginal upgrade to a ss press. You are still pulling the handle the same number of times, just handling the case less.
If I were shooting less than 500rds a month & just starting out, I would look at a turret. If I even anticipated a higher rd count in the future, buy once, cry once & pony up for a Dillon 550. Again, Cost is just not an issue when buying gear that will last you 30-40yrs. Even a fully loaded 650, all the bells & whistles, sets you back a whopping $3/month. Few of us need such production. I run a 550 & 650, but honestly, my 550 is all I need for 1000-1200rds a month.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I run six presses and each has a purpose for my loading requirements. After so many years loading I've probably gone thru twelve presses - several like my old Co-Ax I wished I still had but I've settled on these six and they simply do the job accurately, consistently and easily. I run two Stars for match loading 38 midrange and 45acp -- they handle only these cartridges and they are 100% reliable and dead-on accurate and have been for about 60 years -- thirty with me. Mike Dillon owes those clever machinists at Star a big thanks for such a reliable design.

I run two Hollywoods, one big 12 station Universal turret and one supremely accurate and powerful single stage Senior. The other two presses are Lyman All-American turret heads. These are solid old style presses that once set up just do a great job on larger caliber pistol loads 357-454. If you see one these I suggest grabbing it as these are really well designed beefy little presses that can be set up on a bench top, not over the edge, either left or right handed.

The turret presses offer me a simple method of controlling every stage of the loading process which gives me plenty of hands on inspection time to cull out cases with split mouths, sloppy primer pockets, wrong head stamp etc etc. After decapping/sizing I load my blocks in lots of fifty, they are hand or bench primed then moved to the press and the process moves all the brass through one stage at a time, i.e., size the mouth if some bullets need special treatment, charge with powder, seat bullets and apply crimp per cartridge needs. In other words I do not rotate the head and use the dies sequentially but instead move the die and process the entire batch one step at a time. With a good turret press once the dies are set up you don't worry about re-setting since the depth is right on every time provided your brass length is consistent. . Since I do not throw powder from a press I can install and set up the fourth hole with a special seating or crimp die if I change bullets or need more or less crimp. Obviously there is a lot more to loading than this brief overview but hopefully you get the idea

This method is plenty fast and offers the careful reloader full control over each step. I don't own a bullet puller. For those who are concerned with speed and quantity my approach will sound overly complicated but quality and control take a bit more time. Nobody can tell me that their Dillon or any progressive allows the loader to feel primer seating depth or a sloppy blown out pocket. These presses, by their design, more or less remove tactile feed back at those stages where you need it the most such as seating primers, roll crimping etc. For those competing at the upper levels with deeper pockets or sponsors running thousands of rounds thru a Dillon or air operated Star, then chances are your running new or near new brass so concerns over brass wear aren't really ah serious concern. However I have to watch my cases closely and my match brass represents hours of prep and trimming so I kind of like to hang on to it as long as I can. In the final analysis a good turret head press is a very reliable and consistent press if used one loading stage at a time. There is a lot to be said for taking your time setting up the dies and leaving them locked down and ready to crank out a bucket full of high quality built 45Colt or 41 Mags from a press that can be quite affordable. I'm seeing quite a few turret heads selling for short money by shooters that want to join the big blue train. Though the turret press was originally billed years ago as a hand operated progressive style press most people I know have learned long ago that banging and turning a powder throw atop a press is not a good idea if you want consistent drops. Some powders are more tolerant but many aren't.

I must admit, a strong case for the 550. I watched the Dillon video on the 550, pretty sweet.

Not sure what video you watched but this site has all of them.

Ultimate Reloader Reloading Blog

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Still Running Against the Wind

In the LEE 4 station turret you would have to seat and crimp on the same die. So 3 dies and one Powder cop or check die.

This would of course be great for all those who hate the Lee FCD as that is just for dummies that make mistakes.

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Still Running Against the Wind

You trying to start a riot...I'm not touching that one!

You are very Wise Grasshopper. Just saying that regardless of press with 4 stations if you use a powder check die, then you can not have a separate crimp die of any brand.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Have used the same Lyman All American for 40+ years, .38,.357,.41,.44 and a few 22 Hornets. Use Skeeter loads for the wheel guns mostly Unique,296 and 2400, never had a problem. If I have everything prepped, about 100 rounds an hour.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As I said before I have horse traded myself into a nice stable of presses but I could do very nicely with a Rock Chucker or accurate single and a Lyman All-American and some hand tools. That combo would cover all my bases short of full on competition demands. I never see these presses anymore but I'd buy them if I could. They are deceptively great presses simple in design, heavy clean castings and rigid where they need to be and very very portable. I used to mount mine on the tailgate at the range for work ups.

Regards