I have a Walthers PK380 that works fine with factory ammo but suffers with FTE from my reloads. I am new to reloading and thought maybe its something I'm doing wrong. My powder charge is good and the OAL is set to .970. Is it possible that this gun does not like reloaded ammo period? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give..

What bullet weight are you running, what powder are you using and charge weight, and what brass are you using?

Is the slide fully cycling?

I don't shoot .380, but most often failure to eject is due to slow slide velocity from underpowered loads. Or is it failing to extract brass from the chamber?
What exactly is your load?
What is the failure? (extract? eject?)

That was my first thought also, are you loading at the lower end? If so try increasing slightly, and work up. Don't go over max. Just an idea.

If you aren't high on the load chart it sounds like you could use a little more oomph. My 3rd gen eats anything and everything. The Keltec is VERY picky and doesn't like lead bullets at all.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

We would need the bullet weight and type as well as your powder and charge ???

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Still Running Against the Wind

Okay, could you be a little more vague with the load details?

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it just needs more voltage

Properly reloaded ammo is no diff than factory. So it could be you just need more powder of a change in oal, but you really haven't given much to go on??

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Sorry for the lack of information, I am using a 100gr Berry FMC with once fired range brass. The OAL is set at .970, the charge is BE-86 at 4.0gr. The case tries to eject but does not come completely out of the barrel, it hits the new round trying to chamber and gets stuck, hope this makes sense.

Well Alliant only lists a 95 gr FMC with that powder and the max is 4.3 gr of BE 86. So your charge does not sound that bad.

Berrys bullets are plated not full metal case.

Your COL is determined by your barrel and a plunk test Did you take the slide off and drop the test round in the barrel??

I have not used that powder so really can not help you that much. Does factory ammo work in the gun??

Also is your gun under the recall??

PK380 Recall Notice - Walther Arms

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Still Running Against the Wind

I believe the Walther is a straight blow-back action. In this type action all cycling is determined/generated by the pressure of the cartridge firing. Factory ammo cycles the action reliably but reloads don't? Reloads are not generating enough pressure to cycle the action. Bump up the powder charge until you get good reliable functioning...

Wrong. I looked for a description of the action, but could not find any on the Walther site or google. Turns out it isn't blow back...

Looking at the data for BE86, PowerPistol and Unique ... something smells a hair odd about the data.

Personal, I might try a 90 grain bullet to see if that makes any improvements.

This might point to one of arguments about 380 for defense.
It runs at a very strict physics budget, and the reliability seems more a function of astrology than terrestrial engineering principals.

Loosely translated, your particular load and gun might not be in the stars and the combo may be born under a bad moon rising.
You may do well to get out and explore your possibilities.
Meet new bullets and try different powders.

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it just needs more voltage

A few thoughts:

1) The "FTE" usage is annoying. As others have noted "extract" and "eject" are both relevant terms that end in "E" and the use of "FTE" is at best imprecise when you are trying to describe a problem. It sounds cool, but it's a really useless term.

2) It's important here to make that distinction as an excessively high pressure load may cause slide to move aft before the chamber pressure has dropped, resulting in the case sticking in the chamber, failing to extract, and possibly ripping the rim off the head of the case.

Suggesting a higher charge in that case is a really bad idea.

3) If on the other hand it's a failure to fully extract the case, with the result that the slide does not cycle far enough aft to pull the case completely out of the chamber, or does not cycle far enough back to contact the ejector, where the case can then be flipped out the ejection port, then it's an issue of the load not imparting enough momentum to he slide.

In that case, a heavier charge, and/or a heavier projectile may resolve the problem.

4) It may also be an artifact of the reloaded case having larger dimensions at the base of the case, causing the case to be stickier than a factory case on ejection. This can happen in some pistols with very tight chamber dimensions, and Walther has a habit of using a tight chamber. In the .380 ACP with a parallel wall case, the solution may be to use a Lee Factory crimp die with the sizing collar in the base to ensure the base of the case is full sized.

1: Agreed

2: If this were a gas operated firearm, YES. Blowback pistol, simply impossible.....

3: Most likely scenario!!!!!!

4: The "PLUNK" test will answer this one for you: With the barrel or slide removed, drop a loaded round into the chamber.

If it fully chambers, trying multiple rounds, then chances are your load is to light, OR, your seating depth is too long for the charge.

I only have one load for the .380 with a 100gr JHP (which SHOULD be a longer bullet) and its seated to .935".

If you decide to shorten your seating depth, do so in small increments, say .010 each time.

Since factory ammo works, it sure isn't a gun problem. unless the shape of the bullet and seating depth are getting in the way of extraction your only option is to raise pressures.....




EDIT:
The PK380 is LOCKED BREACH, which generally will require more remaining pressure to actuate the slide then a blowback design.... (answer 2 still stands though)

I use Xtreme 100 grain copper plated bullets in .380 and have to load to the maximum of the data to achieve good results. They work well now, regardless of the cycle of the moon. When I tried mid-range, I also had issues. Work your way carefully up and you may have better results.

Thanks for all the great ideas, I will carefully try all the suggestions and hopefully find a solution.

Once again, does factory ammo work in the gun??

Not related, but it yous subject to the recall??

Normally in situations like this I would suspect to light of a charge but per the Alliant data that is not the case.

Do you have any other powders??

Also the PK380 is a locked breach(as mentioned) action (the barrel come out) did you do a plunk test on your loads??

The PPK/S is a blow back.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yes it functions fine with factory ammo.

Tim81:

4.0gr looks like it should be OK for your bullet . . . your OAL looks shorter than factory tests with lighter bullets which should increase pressue . . . yet this sure sounds like insufficient powder charge.

So I have to ask . . . how do you know your powder charge is 4.0gr?

Are you using dippers to throw your powder? or a digital scale to weigh it? Does your scale correctly weigh 4.0gr? etc

OK, have you plunk tested your loaded ammo? This is a 45 Auto but the concept is the same. It should drop right in and when you turn it over it should fall right out.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have not tried the plunk test yet but I will soon. I measure the COL on a factory round and it measured .975 versus .970 on my reloads. Do you think this could make the difference? Thanks for all the helpful advice.

I have checked my loads with a balance scale and a digital scale so I feel pretty good about the weight.

This can be a source of drama.
Bullet shapes differ, and as a result, some contact the rifling at a shorter COL than others.
The plunk test will bear this issue out if it is one.

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it just needs more voltage

How are you crimping? The round headspaces off the case mouth. If you over crimp the case may be jamming, You want to crimp just enough to remove the flair made for seating the bullet.

Make a dummy round (no primer or powder) load it as you do and then pull the bullet (do you have a bullet puller hammer?) You should not see much of a indent in the bullet from the crimp. Just a faint line.

Your COL is determined by the "plunk test"

I have loaded many of those same bullets in the 380 but use different powders, again, do you have any others as I can not advise on you powder charge. I think you bought the only jar of BE 86 ever made.

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Still Running Against the Wind

How would the Plunk Test resolve a failure to extract/eject?

I was not crimping at all and the in a attempt tp resolve this problem I purchased a Lee Factory Crimp Die and that has not made any difference at all.

I also have loaded with 3.3gr of Universal powder using a 95gr round nose lead bullet and experienced the same problem.

My pistol is not included in the Recall.

Well per Hodgdon the Universal load should be fine and is at the upper end for a plated bullet,

That leads me to think the issue is with your COL and or your crimp.

So did you plunk test you test ammo,?? If the loaded round is to long it will not chamber correctly, to short and pressure will increase but that would not be a issue with failure to extract or eject, You can crimp with your regular seating die or with the FCD, With the FCD turn the top know down until it touches the bullet, then lower the ram and turn the knob 1/2 to 3/4 more. That should be plenty of crimp.

Plunk the round in a empty barrel it should fall in easy all the way as in the picture, Now turn it over does it fall right out? If not the bullet is stuck in the chamber so seat it a tiny bit more until it falls out.

Without actually seeing it, that's all I can come up with,

We can eliminate powder charge as it does it with a good dose of Universal.

If you can take a picture of the loaded round and also with it in the barrel (out of the gun)

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Still Running Against the Wind

Work your load up higher......


That .2gr between your load and max may be all it takes to function...

All the crimp you should need is to take the flare out of the case so there is no visible gap between the casemouth and the bullet, BUT, a heavier crimp will increase pressure somewhat, and may be enough to get your pistol to eject....

On second thought, get a picture of the jam so we can all see exactly whats going on!!!!!

Won't get to the range until Saturday, I'll get some pictures then? I'll try the plunk test tonight.

Per Hodgdon the max load using Universal and a 95 gr FMJ bullet is 3.5 grains.

He used a 95 gr lead bullet with 3.3 grains so there should be no issue with the powder charge.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Just finished the plunk test and some of the reloads did stick on the way out.

Seat them just a fraction deeper until they fall out. Also make sure the flair is removed, as in crimped slightly, The case head spaces on the mouth of the case so if it is to wide it will not "plunk" correctly. The measurement with calipers at the case mouth should be around .372 give or take a hair

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Still Running Against the Wind

Went to the range on Saturday and this time the pistol would not even extract factory rounds. It jammed every 3 to 4 rounds. looks like I need to make a call to Walthers. Not great but here is a picture of what it is doing.
[IMG][/IMG]

Yes, Send it back by all means, let them fix it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Smart move having the factory rounds with you, I've chased my tail once or twice , looking for my reload problem , when all the time it was the gun. The factory ammo you had settled that question, it's the gun not your loads.....ATTA-BOY !


Gary
Gary