Advise on a specific kind of manual

[Casper223]

Have a question, In loading my shotgun hulls, I have a goto book by Lyman, and have a favorite load I use, and is interchangeable between Remington Hulls and Winchester AA Hulls, with exception of the wad column.

In reloading Rifle Hulls, I've found the loads and tips my rifles like the best, and have invested a great many hours in tips, powders, OAL's etc... and have them all sorted along with supplies to duplicate those loads.

I'm new in reloading pistol loads. .38/.357, I've been using wadcutter, and semi Wadcutters, but have loaded .357 Magnum with 158gr Jacketed Hollow Points as well. I picked up from my supplier, with the tips, he handed me Winchester 296 Ball powder. In my Lyman 3rd edition I was able to purchase, I don't see one load in the .357 Magnum using 296 powder, but someone mentioned the 296 powder was the same as another powder, then another person contradicted the first, what a Fiasco, I like to have load recipes and forget all the contradictions. Well anyway, I had to dive back in my Sierra manual to find the tip I had, that had a recipe for the Winchester 296 powder.

Is there a reloading manual, and I know there's no just one manual, but maybe even a couple that are complete in powders and tips that most folks use? I mean a manual for hand gunners that shows a tip with more than 4 or 5 powders? I open my Lyman Shotgun manual and see so many different powders used with so many different Wads, primers etc... I hate opening up a recipe book, and it shows the tip I want to use, and 4 powders underneath it. I'd like to find a book of options, most common tips and 8-10 powder types? Shot in the dark.... But do y'all have a recommended book you find more useful than any other? Thanks

[Old&Retired]

By "tips" I'm assuming you mean bullets. That said, the Lee Modern Reloading Manual lists numerous bullets and powders for most calibers.

Just because someone tells you that powder X is the same as powder Y, DO NOT BELIEVE IT! Minor differences could result in extreme pressure differences.

I strongly advise obtaining several current manuals. I have the latest Lyman, Hornady and Lee manuals. The Lee is my go to for almost all my handgun loads, the exception being my .45 Colt. The Lyman has data for the 255 EK Semi-wadcutter I use.

BTW...the latest Lyman Manual is the 50th edition, not the 3rd.

Good luck and read ALL the front data on reloading in each manual.

[oldman10mm]

There are many variations of data that show variations of primers, powder, and bullets. It's best to rely on many, as possible, and over the years the 'maximums' have changed (been lowered) due to legal responsibility reasons. The Hodgdon site for reloading is a good site for a lot of loads. I have old Sierra, Speer, and Hornady manuals as reference.

[rockquarry]

The Lee manual is a great reference source, but I'd be very cautious using the data, even if you're an experienced handloader. Most, maybe all of the data is from a variety of sources. While the sources are legitimate (not questionable Internet stuff) from bullet and powder manufacturers, bullets are often unidentified jacketed and cast bullets; Lee often lists bullet weights only. Significant differences in bullet bearing lengths and bullet construction can have big and potentially dangerous results in handloads, particularly with loads approaching maximum.

Even if they're not popular among many handloaders these days, one can't have too many manuals. It's very cheap insurance if for no other reason. You can't get everything online.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

All powder companies offer free pamplet manuals. Al ya gotta do is ask. Some are free where powder is sold.

[Rule3]

Buy manuals from Speer, Hornady,Lee and Lyman
Only if you are gonna read the first chapters that is where the GOOD info is. Unfortunately many people today just want recipes.



If all you want is load data, most can be found online
The Lee manual data is just reprinted tests from other sources like the above manuals. It's good to have as Mr Lee has a nice way of writing, The first manual I bough and read the whole thing.

[nbedford]

Originally Posted by rockquarry

The Lee manual is a great reference source, but I'd be very cautious using the data, even if you're an experienced handloader. Most, maybe all of the data is from a variety of sources. While the sources are legitimate (not questionable Internet stuff) from bullet and powder manufacturers, bullets are often unidentified jacketed and cast bullets; Lee often lists bullet weights only. Significant differences in bullet bearing lengths and bullet construction can have big and potentially dangerous results in handloads, particularly with loads approaching maximum.

Even if they're not popular among many handloaders these days, one can't have too many manuals. It's very cheap insurance if for no other reason. You can't get everything online.

I still rely on my old Speer manual from back about 1985 or so. I have the new Lee Manual and the Hornady too. But I often fall back on the Speer and also the Lyman castbullet manual.

[LoboGunLeather]

I have manuals dating back about a half-century and published by Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Lyman as well as powder manufacturers' loading guides.

With few exceptions the manuals put out by bullet manufacturers concentrate all of their efforts on their own product lines. Fine, as long as you wish to load that specific bullet, but useful only as a general guideline when using others.

I have always found the Lyman handbooks to be excellent resources, including extensive lab-tested results for cast bullets as well as jacketed bullets by multiple makers. Also, the step-by-step guides from basics through advanced techniques and trouble shooting various problems are very good. If I were limited to only one I would choose the Lyman handbooks over anything else.

[AManWearingAHat]

Win 296 and H110 are the same powder under different labels.

Win 231 and HP38 are the same powder under different labels.

They are produced at the same plant, St. Marks Powder in Florida. The only difference is the bottle. You can email Hodgdon yourself and they will tell you the same thing.

[rockquarry]

From what I've seen of various powder companies' free data that I used to pick up at SHOT Shows, it was pretty sketchy and wouldn't replace a load manual but perhaps some of the free stuff today is more comprehensive.

No one needs so many, but I have at least forty, maybe fifty manuals going back to the '50s that I still look at on occasion. Some of the older data I would never use because it wasn't pressure tested, but these old books still serve as good reference material.

[ggibson511960]

Tips must be a Louisiana thing. I used to hear a lot of guys here in Texas refer to bullets as "heads".

If you follow the near universal advice to reduce starting loads, all of the manuals offer good recipes. The proliferation of bullet types and materials has introduced variables that we used to not worry about. Bullet material and length of bearing surface make a difference. The Lyman manuals illustrate this very well for copper jacketed and hard cast bullets. I'm glad I don't use any of the newer solid metallic, low drag torpedoes. If I did I would insist on using lab tested loading data from the bullet manufacturer.

I scoff a bit at the paranoia over powder equivalences. Yes, H-110=W-296, and HP-38=W-231. There are documented instances of powder strength variations from lot to lot, or in new and improved versions of old favorites, but unless one is loading to the limits of the nuclear test ban treaty they shouldn't matter, especially if prudence otherwise prevails with reduced starting loads. Variations in crimp strength ought to worry fanatics who are concerned about powder energy content. Crimp grip is virtually un-measureable. So is sliding resistance in bores of varying size and condition.

[mikld]

For all intents and purposes, as mentioned above W296 and H110 are the same powder. Hint, find a load in your manuals before purchasing any components (and I would really consider taking a powder a gun counter clerk recommended).

My rule #1 is I pay very little attention (none) to any load data I see on any forum, hear from and gun counter clerk, good intended friend, range rat, pet loads web site or gun shop guru. I get 98% of my load data from published reloading manuals and a bit from powder manufacturers/distributors' websites.

As far as manuals my first source is the bullet manufacturer's data, then powder manufacturer's manuals. For generic data I have my Lyman manuals which are used quite a bit, both Reloading Hand book and Cast Bullet Handbooks. Most of my manuals have W296/H110 data when appropriate. While the Lee manual has an entertaining and interesting "front half" I have found the load data to be sketchy and lacking, and I very rarely use it, with my bullet manufacturer's manuals the most used...

[Funflyer]

You can download the Midway load-map for 357 here. Lots of 296 loads and bullets listed.

[rwsmith]

....have loads online at their websites.

[Ivan the Butcher]

There are several areas of reloading and there are "GO TO" manuals for each.

Shot gun is one area that there are no single go to manuals, I like Hodgdon's hard bound manual from 1996. but every powder company has annual updates and/or online pages!

For current "Jacketed" handgun loads the GO TO are Lyman #50 and Hornady #10

For cast Handgun loads the Go TO is Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4

For Center Fire Rifle there are many very good manuals, basically every bullet company has one! But THE go to is Sierra's #4

For Black Powder Muzzel loaders there are 2, Lyman Black Powder manual & The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading manual

For Black Powder Cartridge the best is SPG's manual. I have #3 but I heard they are on #9.


Every edition is a little different. But some editions stand out as stand alone must haves. There are 2 that I always run to. the first is Lyman #45, it has a Unique load for every US metallic cartridge that existed in 1972. The other is Hodgdon's #24 (1983) this has appendix after appendix of data including Black Powder muzzel and Cartridge shotgun (very difficult to find info)

For the GO TO on Wildcats, it would be P.O.Ackley's Handbook for shooters & Reloaders.

I own dozens more, but these are the cream of the crop.

Ivan

[Qc Pistolero]

I've got 7 or 8 books but the 2 I mostly rely upon are Lyman(49th) and Lee when I'm into familiar grounds.When I venture in new territory,I compare between all of my books and discard the extremes and will concentrate on the others.I've seen occasions where the minimum load in one book exceeded the max load in another;not a common occurence but that's why I'll disregard the extremes.
While it is true that H110 and W296 are the same,variation from lot to lot can be up to 4%.If you load at or near max,it is good to back off when changing powder lot of the same powder since pressure buildup is not linear but exponential.

[rockquarry]

Ivan the Butcher- Lots of good sources in your post.... P.O. Ackley's handbooks #1 and #2 are among the best reading for handloaders, even if some of the material is dated. My copy of each is nearly worn out after many years of use and one of them is taped up to hold it together. The load data, though, should be considered for reference only.

Few, if any of those loads were shot by Ackley or his employees. Many were furnished to him by wildcatters and experimenters in the days when almost no individuals owned or used chronographs and pressure was judged by methods we know now aren't particularly reliable indicators. Many of the velocities were wildly inflated and some of the load data may be potentially dangerous. Data for Ackley's own cartridges may be more reliable, but I'd still be cautious.

Ken Waters' PET LOADS is another excellent source of data. Some of it may be a bit dated and not all the powders are marketed today, but it still contains many good, usable loads, and information not obtainable elsewhere. Waters was probably the best of the handloading writers from the '60s through the 90s.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by Old&Retired

By "tips" I'm assuming you mean bullets. That said, the Lee Modern Reloading Manual lists numerous bullets and powders for most calibers.

Just because someone tells you that powder X is the same as powder Y, DO NOT BELIEVE IT! Minor differences could result in extreme pressure differences.

I strongly advise obtaining several current manuals. I have the latest Lyman, Hornady and Lee manuals. The Lee is my go to for almost all my handgun loads, the exception being my .45 Colt. The Lyman has data for the 255 EK Semi-wadcutter I use.

BTW...the latest Lyman Manual is the 50th edition, not the 3rd.

Good luck and read ALL the front data on reloading in each manual.

By Tips, I'm referring to the projectile.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by oldman10mm

There are many variations of data that show variations of primers, powder, and bullets. It's best to rely on many, as possible, and over the years the 'maximums' have changed (been lowered) due to legal responsibility reasons. The Hodgdon site for reloading is a good site for a lot of loads. I have old Sierra, Speer, and Hornady manuals as reference.

oldman10mm, the problem was when I pulled the trigger to purchase the New Dillon 550C press, I took along the .38 Dies, along with 138g and 148g hollow points in which my guy handed me Bullseye powder while I was there, in an effort to have everything I needed to set it up, and get to work, my supplier was dealing with family sickness issues, and tried to do the everything at once approach. I then grabbed 500 of the .357 cases, Magnum small pistol primers, along with 500 JHP Tips, in which he handed me Winchester 296 powder, saying this will get you started. When I got home, I couldn't find Winchester 296 powder in my Lyman 3 book, or in some powder pamphlets he handed me, but I had to go back for the heck of it to an old Sierra handloading recipe book I used for my 270 WSM and 7MM WSM recipes, and in it I found a .357 load with a 158g JHP load featuring Win 296 powder. So I did have one, but was looking for a book with a bigger selection of tips and powders, a single book so I don't have to go to one book for .38's then another for .357's, multiple powders and tips rather than the 4-6 listed in Lyman 3 book. A more complete book really.

[Jellybean]

Lyman has printed many different handbooks over the years and they are all good. It sounds like you might have their 3rd edition Pistol and Revolver handbook? There is nothing wrong with it and you don't need another one, and the type of manual you are looking for doesn't exist. Manuals are either written by manufacturers of reloading components and tools or by private individuals and are all limited in the information they contain. The manuals by manufacturers are intended to sell their products and are all pretty reliable as far as the data, Lee being the worst as their data doesn't contain enough information and is geared toward using their powder metering tools. Manuals by private individuals should always be checked against reliable sources for data information.

You don't need specific data for every bullet and powder combination. The rule of thumb is to find data for the powder using a bullet that is close to the one you are using, in weight, bearing surface and seating depth and start at the suggested starting and carefully work your way up. I don't know who started the whole "recipe" garbage but it doesn't really work that way, they aren't specific recipes only suggestions and can vary quite a bit from one loader to the next and using different firearms.

As others have mentioned, go to the Winchester powder data on Hodgdon's website and look for data for 296 powder using a bullet similar to yours. I would have never suggested it as a powder to start with, even if you are planning on loading for highest velocity because the relationship between velocity and pressure can be tricky and seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people on the internet.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by Rule3

Buy manuals from Speer, Hornady,Lee and Lyman
Only if you are gonna read the first chapters that is where the GOOD info is. Unfortunately many people today just want recipes.



If all you want is load data, most can be found online
The Lee manual data is just reprinted tests from other sources like the above manuals. It's good to have as Mr Lee has a nice way of writing, The first manual I bough and read the whole thing.

Not to be thought of as sarcastic, I've been reloading for 45 years, I've read these books cover to cover, and nothing I see has changed from 45 years ago to today, What is the deal with read the book cover to cover again and again? It's not as if I know it all, that's why I'm here asking questions, but if my question was answered in the front of the book I would have the answer, what am I missing for 45 years in the front of the book? please explain. I'm evidently missing what your trying to say or explain, and its frustrating the heck out of me!

[muddocktor]

Originally Posted by Casper223

By Tips, I'm referring to the projectile.

The projectile, which you call a "tip", is more properly called a bullet or projectile. And with rifle and pistol bullets, the "hull" is more properly called a case or brass, with hull being what a shotgun case would be called.

As to finding data to load with, I use a variety of sources both in book form and online published data. In book form, I have the new Sierra Edition VI manual and I have a 9th Edition Hornady manual, plus older versions of those manuals. I also have a mid 80's edition of the Speer manual. For more data, I also use the downloadable pdf of Western Powder (covers both Accurate and Ramshot powders), which has a lot of data covering a lot of bullet types with those powders. Alliant also has online data you can use, but is mostly tested with Speer bullets. Hodgdon also has online resources you can use to look up load data for all brans of powder that Hodgdon controls (Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester). And the Nosler and Speer websites also have load data freely available for you to use too.

With any and all data choices, if you change any one thing from the exact recipe the publisher of the data used, you need to work up your loads from there. If it's a fairly minor change like a different brass manufacturer or different primer brand you could probably start off a bit higher than minimum charge shown. For extrapolating data using a different bullet than what is shown in the data, first look at the bullet design and look for data that has a similar bullet design, then start off with a minimum load charge and test, then work up from there.

Hope this helps you out.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by nbedford

I still rely on my old Speer manual from back about 1985 or so. I have the new Lee Manual and the Hornady too. But I often fall back on the Speer and also the Lyman castbullet manual.

I've ordered the Speer 9th and 10th addition books, and just have received them, also ordered and haven't put down the Hatcher's Notebook, lots of great information, very informative. The Speer book 10th edition covers some load data on the 296 powder, another powder of particular interest to me was the Red Dot, because I keep about 32-40 lbs of it at any given time for shotshell reloading. I have no idea how well it would meter through the powder bar measure and bar on the Dillon 550C, but the Spolar Gold takes a bushing, drops by volume, and I weigh probably every 10th charge, and it's within the + - .01 on a RCBS 10-10 scale. If I could get those results through the Dillon, I'd be pretty Happy. Has anyone run and Red Dot through the Dillon powder bar? and can you please advise if any variance issues? as I said I keep Red Dot plentiful with all the shot shell reloading I do.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

I have manuals dating back about a half-century and published by Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Lyman as well as powder manufacturers' loading guides.

With few exceptions the manuals put out by bullet manufacturers concentrate all of their efforts on their own product lines. Fine, as long as you wish to load that specific bullet, but useful only as a general guideline when using others.

I have always found the Lyman handbooks to be excellent resources, including extensive lab-tested results for cast bullets as well as jacketed bullets by multiple makers. Also, the step-by-step guides from basics through advanced techniques and trouble shooting various problems are very good. If I were limited to only one I would choose the Lyman handbooks over anything else.

I think you nailed it Lobo, and I just am seeing what your saying, each book has it's own agenda, (Product Line) which keeps me jumping book to book. So I guess I could find one unaffiliated which covers a vast majority instead of just their product line. Don't get me wrong, I like my Lyman Shotshell manual, and as I matched up an interchangeable load from Remington, to AA etc with the same powder and shot charge, I just had to change wad colors as it came around the indexer but that was an easy takeaway to get what I wanted. My Sierra book covered in great detail much information about my short Mags, and after just getting into Pistol reloads, my supplier there Bullseye at me for the .38's which worked great and Winchester 296 which I had to dig for to get a recipe. Thats another Eason I ordered the Speer books. I've read elsewhere the Lyman 50th was a great manual, but so I'm looking for one which carries more than just their limited product line. What someone else had mentioned was searching the load data online, and I've tried hard to avoid anything online as far as recipes, but I guess if it's from the powder manufacturer, it should be safe.
When I "Googled" Winchester 296 powder, I read the argument about the H110 and 296 not being the same, along with another saying it was, in the end I just avoided the whole argument and opted to get Normal load info from a reputable load source rather than two people arguing on an internet web site.

[gwpercle]

One Book / One Caliber
The Complete Reloading Manual for the 357 Magnum

This booklet takes all the published data from all the other sources and puts it in one booklet for just one cartridge .

I picked one up for 41 magnum just out of curiosity ... it has data from Accurate Arms , Alliant, Hodgdon, Hornady, IMR , Nosler , RCBS , Lyman , Lee , Sierra, Speer, Winchester , Vihtavuori , Barns and Swift .
They cost $9.95 from various sources (mine was from Midway ) and worth every penny to have all that data at my fingertips in one book.
Check them out. They also sell books for shotgun reloading .
Printed by Loadbooks USA inc.
Gary

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by ggibson511960

Tips must be a Louisiana thing. I used to hear a lot of guys here in Texas refer to bullets as "heads".

If you follow the near universal advice to reduce starting loads, all of the manuals offer good recipes. The proliferation of bullet types and materials has introduced variables that we used to not worry about. Bullet material and length of bearing surface make a difference. The Lyman manuals illustrate this very well for copper jacketed and hard cast bullets. I'm glad I don't use any of the newer solid metallic, low drag torpedoes. If I did I would insist on using lab tested loading data from the bullet manufacturer.

I scoff a bit at the paranoia over powder equivalences. Yes, H-110=W-296, and HP-38=W-231. There are documented instances of powder strength variations from lot to lot, or in new and improved versions of old favorites, but unless one is loading to the limits of the nuclear test ban treaty they shouldn't matter, especially if prudence otherwise prevails with reduced starting loads. Variations in crimp strength ought to worry fanatics who are concerned about powder energy content. Crimp grip is virtually un-measureable. So is sliding resistance in bores of varying size and condition.

Yes I call them Tips.... but because if I tossed you a whole and loaded .38 cartridge, thats what I would call a bullet. I don't load to max ever, let me take that back, if I'm loading a rifle cartridge, and I can meet my goal of reaching Magnum velocity but still stay within the guidelines of safe load, then I may load upper towards Max, If not my goal then I'll load at minimum and work my way up. So the loading MAX probably fits some reloader, but doesn't fit me in the confines of this question, just to clarify that. And please don't feel I'm being rude or abrasive, but I've asked a question on another forum and got some off the wall remarks, answers etc, and here I asked about a more neutral but complete reloading manual, and I'm being picked on for using the term "Tips" which is what I called them since I was a teenager reloading, back then I was probably the only kid who enjoyed shooting enough to reload, or had a press, or even knew what smokeless powder was/is.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by mikld

For all intents and purposes, as mentioned above W296 and H110 are the same powder. Hint, find a load in your manuals before purchasing any components (and I would really consider taking a powder a gun counter clerk recommended).

My rule #1 is I pay very little attention (none) to any load data I see on any forum, hear from and gun counter clerk, good intended friend, range rat, pet loads web site or gun shop guru. I get 98% of my load data from published reloading manuals and a bit from powder manufacturers/distributors' websites.

As far as manuals my first source is the bullet manufacturer's data, then powder manufacturer's manuals. For generic data I have my Lyman manuals which are used quite a bit, both Reloading Hand book and Cast Bullet Handbooks. Most of my manuals have W296/H110 data when appropriate. While the Lee manual has an entertaining and interesting "front half" I have found the load data to be sketchy and lacking, and I very rarely use it, with my bullet manufacturer's manuals the most used...

This is great advise, but the guy wasn't a gun counter clerk, This guy stocks all my powders, primers, casings, and bullet tips (Cartridges/Projectiles) as I purchased the press, and the primers, casings, and projectiles, Instead of me coming back for powders, he gave me load data on the bullseye, but I found nothing in the material for the Winchester 296. Now my guy does a lot of reloading, and he passed to me what he used in 1lb cans, and said try these powders with your load recipes they work great for me. Although after I got home, and got everything set up, I had nothing on Winchester 296 powder and had to do some digging to find something that covered that powder. I usually use book OAL's, Case Trim suggestions etc.... But I couldn't find jack on the Win 296 powder, until I dug out my Sierra book. So it wasn't like I took someones advise, or anything like that, maybe I didn't explain the whole scenario in enough detail is why I've gotten these responses.

[ggibson511960]

Originally Posted by Casper223

Yes I call them Tips.... but because if I tossed you a whole and loaded .38 cartridge, thats what I would call a bullet. I don't load to max ever, let me take that back, if I'm loading a rifle cartridge, and I can meet my goal of reaching Magnum velocity but still stay within the guidelines of safe load, then I may load upper towards Max, If not my goal then I'll load at minimum and work my way up. So the loading MAX probably fits some reloader, but doesn't fit me in the confines of this question, just to clarify that. And please don't feel I'm being rude or abrasive, but I've asked a question on another forum and got some off the wall remarks, answers etc, and here I asked about a more neutral but complete reloading manual, and I'm being picked on for using the term "Tips" which is what I called them since I was a teenager reloading, back then I was probably the only kid who enjoyed shooting enough to reload, or had a press, or even knew what smokeless powder was/is.

I hope you don't think I was picking on you. Didn't mean to. You did get a couple of scratchy "corrections". I kind of like the offbeat terms. You seem like a prudent and careful reloader to me. I pretty much follow your practice, trusting the manuals, and have never invested in a chronograph. Don't hunt much any more, but when I did it was always with factory ammo. Paper doesn't know how fast a bullet went through, but I see where it went through. Accuracy is my thing when working up while watching for signs of excessive pressure.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

There are several areas of reloading and there are "GO TO" manuals for each.

Shot gun is one area that there are no single go to manuals, I like Hodgdon's hard bound manual from 1996. but every powder company has annual updates and/or online pages!

For current "Jacketed" handgun loads the GO TO are Lyman #50 and Hornady #10

For cast Handgun loads the Go TO is Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4

For Center Fire Rifle there are many very good manuals, basically every bullet company has one! But THE go to is Sierra's #4

For Black Powder Muzzel loaders there are 2, Lyman Black Powder manual & The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading manual

For Black Powder Cartridge the best is SPG's manual. I have #3 but I heard they are on #9.


Every edition is a little different. But some editions stand out as stand alone must haves. There are 2 that I always run to. the first is Lyman #45, it has a Unique load for every US metallic cartridge that existed in 1972. The other is Hodgdon's #24 (1983) this has appendix after appendix of data including Black Powder muzzel and Cartridge shotgun (very difficult to find info)

For the GO TO on Wildcats, it would be P.O.Ackley's Handbook for shooters & Reloaders.

I own dozens more, but these are the cream of the crop.

Ivan

I've got the Lyman Shot shell book, and have a great load recipe there,

For the WSM 270 and the 7mm WSM I used Sierra #4, so I get that and you make a great deal of sense in your reply too I just wanted to say

I'll try to grab the Lyman #50 and the cast #4. Thank You.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by Funflyer

You can download the Midway load-map for 357 here. Lots of 296 loads and bullets listed.

I came back to the Lyman 3rd edition, and grabbed a bullseye load for the 38 wadcutters, but had to use the Sierra book for load data on the .357 JHP 158g which was 16g of Win 296 powder, and I forget the trim length or OAL right off. I've yet to shoot them yet, being everything closed due this virus, but loaded about 250 to see how they do. I'll definitely bookmark that link from midway you sent Funflyer, Thank you.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

One Book / One Caliber
The Complete Reloading Manual for the 357 Magnum

This booklet takes all the published data from all the other sources and puts it in one booklet for just one cartridge .

I picked one up for 41 magnum just out of curiosity ... it has data from Accurate Arms , Alliant, Hodgdon, Hornady, IMR , Nosler , RCBS , Lyman , Lee , Sierra, Speer, Winchester , Vihtavuori , Barns and Swift .
They cost $9.95 from various sources (mine was from Midway ) and worth every penny to have all that data at my fingertips in one book.
Check them out. They also sell books for shotgun reloading .
Printed by Loadbooks USA inc.
Gary

Think I seen this at Sportsmans warehouse the other day, One for .38 another for .357, and so forth. Thanks, they were in a plastic sealed packet so not as if I could open it unless I purchased it, and I guess just being me, I wasn't going to purchase it sight unseen, so I walked away and thought, let me ask those guys on the reloading forum on S&W they were so helpful with the Dillon 550C. I'm just amazed by the newbie responses to my question.

[Skeet 028]

Shotshells are sooo much different than metallic loading. any recipes can be used in other cases different wads etc as long as you don't load all to max. Metallic is different for the most part until you come to powder. Winchester data says do not reduce the loads of 296. It is a touchy powder to reduce loads in..H-110 IS the same as 296 but Hodgdon has done testing with H-110 while reducing the loads slightly. I like the Hodgdon load data manual they put out yearly in magazine form...but read the caveats in the book. If I am not wrong all pistol/revolver data used mag primers...or did.. They are not very specific on bullet brands in many loads. Use a bit of common sense when loading.. I very seldom load to the limit because lower loading shows a bit more accuracy(sometimes anyway) If it comes to max loads in anything I load the rounds individually with weighed charges. Otherwise I use progressive presses for blow away ammo. Dillon 650 1050s P-Ws and Spolars. In fact I have never used 296 powder in any handgun round. But did use it in 410 shot shell. Lots of it in fact. .

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by ggibson511960

I hope you don't think I was picking on you. Didn't mean to. You did get a couple of scratchy "corrections". I kind of like the offbeat terms. You seem like a prudent and careful reloader to me. I pretty much follow your practice, trusting the manuals, and have never invested in a chronograph. Don't hunt much any more, but when I did it was always with factory ammo. Paper doesn't know how fast a bullet went through, but I see where it went through. Accuracy is my thing when working up while watching for signs of excessive pressure.

my apologies if it came out that way, I'm just perplexed that I ask about a complete manual, or manual more complete than the Lyman 3rd edition, because it seems lacking in comparison to my shotshell manuals and rifle manuals, but then it crossed my mind the rifle Manual by Sierra had a section on pistols which saved my butt and had the necessary information I needed. I've been reloading for years, and was taught by cousins who hunt religiously because I loved to shoot trap and skeet. I had to beg, barrow and steal to get money for shotgun shells. So I saved up and purchased a press, then bought the components, and after that my cousin taught me what I needed to know as a teen. Since then I've taught many friends, co-workers, and even curious folks who have asked if I would mind teaching them the same art we love. After reloading shotgun "HULLS" for years, I decided to move onto rifle cases. I purchased the necessary Rockchucker press, dies, etc and reloaded for my rifles.I couldn't tell you the last time I bought store bought AMMO. and after years of doing this successfully I put a lot of thought into pistol reloading, as I had a buddy I reloaded his rifle ammo, he reloaded my pistol ammo, and the reason I waited so long on the pistol ammo, was just like in loading .38 wadcutters, it is so simple to double charge a casing. After years of thinking it over, I bought the 550C, but I had a couple thousand rounds I wanted to load for the .270 Max in a wildcat round. 21g of 2015 powder, in a .357 maximum case bottle necked after annealing to a .277 neck. The Dillon worked flawlessly after I was able to work out a powder funnel acceptable, but am still working out some die issues because of the Lee Dies that I bought with the pistol, being short for the Dillon tool head. So my reloading supplier, (NOT some Gun store Clerk) suggested using the tool head for the 300 blackout, but then having the other two holes milled down as well, because I barely have one thread of lock nut on my die locking it down, and no it's not the Lee locknut, and yes I've tried locking it from the underside as well. While I'm waiting on this new tool head, I'll work on the .38's and .357's for now. But in saying all this and asking about if there is a more complete manual which covers older and newer powders, and tips, rather than have to go through multiple books, I get hit with "hey, did you read the book" and don't start with a max load. I learned all that day 1, and that was in the late 70's. I guess y'all get a lot of brand new reloader here, I guess it's me not thinking about what y'all are up against.

Everything I've read is darn good advise though, and that's why I hit the like button so often, every bit of it should be followed. It's just that I'm a good bit past the novice, but am still learning everyday, thought I'd ask about the manual. Thank You

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by Skeet 028

Shotshells are sooo much different than metallic loading. any recipes can be used in other cases different wads etc as long as you don't load all to max. Metallic is different for the most part until you come to powder. Winchester data says do not reduce the loads of 296. It is a touchy powder to reduce loads in..H-110 IS the same as 296 but Hodgdon has done testing with H-110 while reducing the loads slightly. I like the Hodgdon load data manual they put out yearly in magazine form...but read the caveats in the book. If I am not wrong all pistol/revolver data used mag primers...or did.. They are not very specific on bullet brands in many loads. Use a bit of common sense when loading.. I very seldom load to the limit because lower loading shows a bit more accuracy(sometimes anyway) If it comes to max loads in anything I load the rounds individually with weighed charges. Otherwise I use progressive presses for blow away ammo. Dillon 650 1050s P-Ws and Spolars. In fact I have never used 296 powder in any handgun round. But did use it in 410 shot shell. Lots of it in fact. .

After loading 12 Gauge for years, I did rifle Ammo for a few different calibers, wasn't lucky enough to find one powder they both liked though, got stuck with 4831SC and 4350 for the other. That was their preference, and what gave me the best groups. I also reloaded my .270 Max pistol ammo on a Rock chucker using a RCBS 10-10 scale. Like you said, I've never used the Winchester 296 powder, but my reload guy said it metered very well and consistent in the Dillon 550C, and he was correct. This was my first experience with this powder. I use Red Dot in my shotguns, Hogden and IMR in my rifles, and 2015 in my .270 max. The bullseye and Winchester 296 are new to me, but so are pistol reloads. Although I have read the manual, I didn't have any Data on the WIN 296 powder until I dug out the Sierra handbook, it showed the JHP 158g PROJECTILE, and showed the powder match, it called for 16g min load in a .357 round. So I am experienced in Metallic Reloading, this is just the first time I've reloaded pistol Ammo and was wondering if they had a more complete manual which varied further than their manufactured items. Oh and I did catch the side note on the Winchester 296 load data about the reduced loads.

[Casper223]

Guys, please don't take my replies the wrong way. I didn't think after introducing myself as a reloader from years back that anyone missed that. The replies I read kinda put me off, but I guess y'all have folks come in here that have never reloaded before, you have no idea of their experience level, and your not sure what to tell them, or exactly what their doing. Taking this into consideration, I understand the answers I received back about a simple basic manual, and everyone had great feedback, ideas, formulas and advise that need to be followed. My apologies for taking it in a newbie manner, I should have considered the question a bit more before asking it. From this post though, I found some pretty good ideas and advise I will try, One is ordering a couple more manuals, including the Lyman 50th, and look at those small version almost pamphlet size individual loads for .38's and .357's. I would like to know if anyone has tried running Red Dot through the Dillon powder system on a 550C though and ask about how it metered, and the variance, or since it's flake powder does it meter as well as the ball powders do.

[muddocktor]

Casper, I don't know how Red Dot meters because I don't use it, but do use Blue Dot and Unique. The Unique meters good enough to run less than full bore loads on my Dillon measure I upgraded my 450 with a couple of years ago (same measure that ships on the 550C) and find Blue Dot to throw a light or heavy powder load occasionally, so I tend to weigh each load if they are close to max loads with BD. The powder measure also meters all the Accurate powders I have loaded with it very accurately and I also find it to be very accurate with 2400 and 300MP Pro for hot loads. I know this wasn't asked by you, but figured I would throw this out there for you to look at when shopping for powder.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by muddocktor

Casper, I don't know how Red Dot meters because I don't use it, but do use Blue Dot and Unique. The Unique meters good enough to run less than full bore loads on my Dillon measure I upgraded my 450 with a couple of years ago (same measure that ships on the 550C) and find Blue Dot to throw a light or heavy powder load occasionally, so I tend to weigh each load if they are close to max loads with BD. The powder measure also meters all the Accurate powders I have loaded with it very accurately and I also find it to be very accurate with 2400 and 300MP Pro for hot loads. I know this wasn't asked by you, but figured I would throw this out there for you to look at when shopping for powder.

Again those are new powders you suggested. Blue Dot and Red Dot are both flake powders muddocktor, So that tells the story. My Dillon supplier suggested I keep with ball powder as much as possible, that they would meter better. The Accurate 2015 is small cylinder powder, and it didn’t matter the best, but I kept a close eye on it, and weighed often was + - .5, if I want more accurate I’ll have to measure each by hand I guess. How accurate is the RCBS 1500 powder measure? Have you used it?? Anyone??


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[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Casper223

Think I seen this at Sportsmans warehouse the other day, One for .38 another for .357, and so forth. Thanks, they were in a plastic sealed packet so not as if I could open it unless I purchased it, and I guess just being me, I wasn't going to purchase it sight unseen, so I walked away and thought, let me ask those guys on the reloading forum on S&W they were so helpful with the Dillon 550C. I'm just amazed by the newbie responses to my question.

I ignored the One Book/One Caliber concept for years myself... I have over two dozen Reloading Manuals from the last 50 years , so never bothered . But I learned something ...if you want a ton of data on just one caliber all in one book ...this is a great thing to have .
I would say it might be geared to the experienced reloader , there are no "how to" chapters....just loading data .
As an experienced reloader if you are interested in one specific caliber ...the books are good and worth the modest price .
I would say it's good to go along with a few complete manuals and for the calibers you load the most of . Since I load a lot of 38 special ...I'm going to get one in that cal .
But the Hornady , Speer , Lyman 50th , Lyman Cast bullet Manual and RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 will still be my core manuals for reloading .

Please don't take offense to any remarks most everyone on the forum are nice , kind and helpful .
I sense a little cabin fever going on ...please excuse .
Gary

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

I ignored the One Book/One Caliber concept for years myself... I have over two dozen Reloading Manuals from the last 50 years , so never bothered . But I learned something ...if you want a ton of data on just one caliber all in one book ...this is a great thing to have .

I would say it might be geared to the experienced reloader , there are no "how to" chapters....just loading data .

As an experienced reloader if you are interested in one specific caliber ...the books are good and worth the modest price .

I would say it's good to go along with a few complete manuals and for the calibers you load the most of . Since I load a lot of 38 special ...I'm going to get one in that cal .

But the Hornady , Speer , Lyman 50th , Lyman Cast bullet Manual and RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 will still be my core manuals for reloading .



Please don't take offense to any remarks most everyone on the forum are nice , kind and helpful .

I sense a little cabin fever going on ...please excuse .

Gary

Your correct, Gary I think you nailed it, I wish I could have opened that pouch and looked the other day, it’s just I’m more respectful especially if it’s not what I was looking for then I’d be obligated to purchase it after opening the wrapping. I often will forget a particular component I was looking for and will grab a book off the shelf and grab what it was I needed, but they have one of each open, and no one seems to mind buying a manual someone’s thumbed through but still looks new. Next time in their I’ll get my gun counter ole school reloading buddy to open it, he’s forgot more about reloading then most will ever learn. Thanks very much for the useful tip, I believe that’s what I need.


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[muddocktor]

Casper, one thing I will say out the Dillon measure that I have noticed. Now that it has loaded a significant amount of ammo, I think it has broken in well and operates much smoother than when it was brand new. I find it meters the fine ball powders very well and it does a good job with Hodgdon Longshot and HP38. And last time I loaded BD and Unique with it, it seemed more accurate than when it was new. I had loaded up some 44 Mag rounds with 9 grains of Unique and found that they shot pretty close on speed over a chrono, indicating to me that the powder throws stayed pretty consistent. It also meters IMR 4227 very well, which is a short stick powder. I load all my rifle cartridges on a turret press, so I can't give you an opinion on how well it handles longer stick powder such as 4350 or 4831.

[nbedford]

I just thought of another manual I use quite a bit for my 32 S&W Long loads in order to try to recreate the factory loads in existence when some of my fixed sight Smiths were produced. Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers lists factory loads for many different calibers in existence back in the 30's. And shows powder type including Bullseye, and bullet weight. Based on his book I have come up with some loads that shoot to point of aim with fixed sights.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by nbedford

I just thought of another manual I use quite a bit for my 32 S&W Long loads in order to try to recreate the factory loads in existence when some of my fixed sight Smiths were produced. Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers lists factory loads for many different calibers in existence back in the 30's. And shows powder type including Bullseye, and bullet weight. Based on his book I have come up with some loads that shoot to point of aim with fixed sights.

I have the Hatchers notebook, is this the same book? Because I haven’t gotten to load data yet, but is as interesting a read as one could get with our hobby!


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[lrrifleman]

Casper 223,

If you reload just a few cartridges, it sounds like the "Loadbooks USA" books are what you are looking for. Each book is dedicated to a specific cartridge, and tends to reprint the relevant page from each reloading manual, and covers a host of powders with both cast and jacketed bullets.

I vaguely remember them selling for about $10 a piece, but just checking Amazon to make sure that I had the correct name, I noticed that they are now selling for about $20 a copy.

[Casper223]

Originally Posted by lrrifleman

Casper 223,



If you reload just a few cartridges, it sounds like the "Loadbooks USA" books are what you are looking for. Each book is dedicated to a specific cartridge, and tends to reprint the relevant page from each reloading manual, and covers a host of powders with both cast and jacketed bullets.



I vaguely remember them selling for about $10 a piece, but just checking Amazon to make sure that I had the correct name, I noticed that they are now selling for about $20 a copy.

That’s exactly what I’m looking for, I believe Sportsmans warehouse had them for $20-$25, but they were sealed in plastic and I couldn’t view the contents of the book. Neither am I sure if I could bring it back after being opened. The book was for a specific caliber, and it said detailed load info for that caliber. That’s exactly what I want. My original issue started out as this. The stores were sparse on powders, and my load books carried 5-6 powders but that was it. So instead of being burdened to a specific powder, with a load book like that, I could view another powder not listed in my books and use it. Example, my reload sales guy who handles Dillon was showing me instead of using Bullseye for example, I could load with Red Dot or Blue Dot. Which opens my options to a bigger variety. Also my reload/Dillon guy handed me Winchester 296 Ball powder for .357, said it was what he used in his .357 reloads, well none of my books showed using Win 296. So then looking it up online, through “Google” it brought me to this forum, and which someone said that Winchester 296 ball powder was the same as H110, and then the argument or disagreement occurred. I was looking for something within my reload books, but then had to backtrack to a huge Sierra bullets load data book, and luckily it showed me a recipe that worked. So I wanted to expand my options and see more loads. I haven’t purchased that loadbooks USA yet, but the next time I’m there I will, now that I know it’s contents, just to expand my options. Plus I do a lot of shotgun hull reloading and keep quite the supply of Red Dot on hand in 8 lb kegs. Not that I seen a load for .357’s I could have substituted Red Dot, but I did see a Blue Dot, and in the stores if one is sold out, a substitute option is always good. Thank You for your input and feedback, you confirmed my need for this pamphlet.


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[Peak53]

Casper223
Interesting thread and I wish you the best of luck on your endeavors. Please be aware that Bullseye and W296 (or H110, whatever) are on extreme opposite ends of the burn rate chart for pistol powders. Bullseye is very fast burning and 296 is very slow burning. Most rifle powders are slower yet. While both are fine and useful powders, they have dramatically different characteristics. Bullseye typically performs best for low to moderate pressures and velocities and considered a "target" powder. 296/110 is designed to get the full pressure/fps possible in magnum calibers like 357 and 44 and shouldn't be reduced much from maximum loads. Those full house magnums can be a handful for guns and wrists. Great for the wow! factor, hunting loads, and to see what you and your gun can do, but approach carefully. Somewhere in between, you might find - and have access to - Unique, an old shotgun powder. It is an extremely versatile handgun powder for low/moderate to moderate/low end magnum loads without the extreme flash and recoil seen with top end loads. Have fun!