Just started reloading .357 magnum, (after about 40 years of not shooting), for my old S&W Model 19. Wanted a nice soft easy shooting load so I purchased some Missouri Bullet Match 38 BH12 LSWC bullets. Using 4.7 gr of Unique, got about 735 fps. Shot well with no leading. Not sure how deep I should be setting this bullet in the 357 case. If I set and crimp at the cannelure, the OAl is 1.615 which exceeds the SAMMI max OAL of 1.590 in. If I set and crimp on the outer bullet band the OAL is 1.542 but there is no crimp cannelure there. Is this the right way to do it?

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The middle round is correct.

FORGET the COL. Load to the cannelure. No need to measure.

The end

Welcome to the forum

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Still Running Against the Wind

Actually the cast bullet does not have a cannelure. It has a crimp groove...guess where the crimp should go, that's right... in the crimp groove. In loading for revolvers, if the bullet doesn't protrude beyond the cylinder face, then it's OK. SAMMI, MAX OAL be hanged, it's irrelevant in this situation.
Jacketed bullets have the Cannelure, its a ring of little ridges impressed into the jacketed bullet. CH4D even makes a tool so you can roll them onto a bullet if there is none or it's in the wrong place.
Gary

Either approach is OK in your light target load but why not just use the crimp groove? As long as it fits the cylinder of your 19 and causes no interference it is OK. Shortening the OAL of the cartridge in a maximum load is what gets you into trouble.

Thanks for the info. Crimping in the groove is the way I originally did it. Then I read a note from the 45th Add of the Lyman Reloading Handbook that said "In order to hold max OAL to below 1.590", it is sometimes necessary to crimp on the forward edge of the 1st driving band".

Give me a break, a groove is a cannelure. Crimp Groove then. Hope all is spelled correctly.


noun can·ne·lure \ˈkanəlˌ(y)u̇(ə)r\
plural
Definition of CANNELURE

1
: a groove running lengthwise on the surface of a cylinder or column

2
a : a groove around the cylinder of an elongated bullet for small arms to contain a lubricant
b : a groove around a bullet into which the edge of the cartridge case is crimped
c : a groove around the rotating band of a gun projectile to lessen the resistance offered to the rifling
d : a groove around the base of a cartridge where the extractor takes hold

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Still Running Against the Wind

This note applies to certain specific situations that arise
when loading long bullets like the 358429 bullet for use in
revolvers with short chambers like the mod 27 & 28. The
above information is correct; when crimped in the groove if
it fits in your gun you're ok.

Have you checked your case length? My Hornady manual gives a max of 1.290" for the case. Trim to 1.280".

If the case is long and you crimp in the crimping groove you may well get a longer over all length of the finished round.

If you are shooting "nice soft easy" loads there really isn't any need to crimp at all. The purpose of the crimp is, along with good case neck tension, to prevent bullet jump. Bullet jump results from heavy recoil in revolvers. Just remove the "bell" left from the expander die and you're good to go. Cases will last longer.

To check you have enough case neck tension, make a ring around a bullet at the case mouth with a sharpie.Position that round in the cylinder as the last to be fired. Fire the first five. Now look at the last round and see if the bullet has moved (jumped) out of the case at all.If not you're good to go. If it has moved, you either don't have enough case neck tension, or you might need a crimp.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

All you have to do is to put the test rounds in your cylinder and make sure the cylinder rotates freely and the bullet noses don't stick out. Crimping on the crimp groove is handy. I loaded up some Lee TL356-124-2R bullets that were powder coated to 0.360" and looked like very nice .357 projectiles. I crimped on the first groove of the tumble lube grooves and the bullets looked very nice... That is until I tried shooting them and noticed that the cylinder would not rotate unless I cranked hard on the hammer. Yup, too long <duh>. Luckily I only loaded a dozen rounds for testing. I have since crimped over the front of the driving band (only interested in preventing the bullets from jumping out, neck tension will prevent setback) and the loads shoot very well.

Yes there is "Correct" ...................

but you could also swallow the whole base of the bullet and crimp where the tip taper ends, for maximum bullet seating depth, and higher pressures.............
but you could also lower the amount of powder used to come out with the same pressures ..........
if you had a lab or chrony to let you see what was going on.

A 148gr HBwc 38 is usually all the way inside the case, but that does not mean that it can't have an OAL of 1.20 vs 1.15".

Making a 158gr SWC .11" shorter than the factory setting with a 38 special, does not mean that it will not work.

"Standard" OAL and powder amounts are a base line for reloaders. These are proven safe.......... a good thing.

"Fuzzy" data can work but it might be not the best thing for those without equipment to back up their loads for safety reasons.

Just depends if you want to pound a stuck bullet out of a barrel or buy a new weapon that is now in ten parts.

(I did 38 since I knew the specks)

Stay SAFE.

on my revolvers, COL has never been an issue. Loading for the model 19 is especially easy since it has a long cylinder and can handle bullets like the classic 173 grain Keith with no difficulty what so ever.

Likewise with the model 29 and the lymann 429421, 250 grain Keith SWC. Wonderful bullet.

The place you can really get into trouble with COL is when loading semi auto pistol rounds especially with the high pressure, small case rounds like the 9 mm and .40 cal. Small variations in bullet seating can produce huge variations in pressure. Not so much with the old large case, black powder rounds like the .38 and .44.

I really dn't know why reloading manuals continue to list OAL for revolver ammo (I believe it's just for indicating what the lab techs used/came up with when they crimped in the groove?). I reloaded my first .38 Special in 1969 and did not know about OAL (I can't remember if the Lee Loader instruction//load data sheet gave that info.) and crimped in the groove, and 5 revolvers and mebbe 30-40 different bullets later, I still crimp in the groove/cannalure. I figgered the bullet designers took into account the case volume and pressures when they located the crimp groove. I couldn't tell you what the OAL of my .357 Mag. handloads is without measuring.

I only know of one bullet (and I don't have the part number) where crimping in the groove would pose a problem. That's a .38 cal. cast SWC that has two grooves and if crimped in the bottom groove, the round will be too long for some cylinders, but in 30+ years I ain't run into that problem...