I just purchased a new Ruger 77/357. I loaded up some 158 grn cowboy bullets (LRNFP) with 13.5 grns. of Accurate #9. I'm using a 4X Loupold scope on this rifle. Never really got the gun zeroed because the spread was all over the paper. I ran about 75 rounds thru this gun without finding a consistent POI. Checked the scope mount and everything was tight.

I'm not sure what would cause this. Other people report that these are 2 MOA rifles with the right ammo.

My next attempt will be with factory 158 grn JSP ammo. Probably should have started with factory ammo anyway. I would like to continue to use lead but I have a feeling I will get better results with jacketed bullets.

Anyone have any ideas as to why I'm seeing this inconsistent POI?

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That's just somebody talkin.

I would suggest that you try jacketed bullets and it sounds like you
already came to the same conclusion. Brian Pearce tested a new
77/357 along with a 77/44 for an article in Rifle magazine a while
back and the 77/44 gave poor accuracy at first. He described a
bore lapping process he went through to get better accuracy from the
77/44. Something you may have to do. When new both calibers
seem to vary quite a bit as to accuracy from what I've read.

I suspect the soft cowboy bullet & the 13.5grs/AA#9 are too hot a combo. That load is probably better suited for hard cast or jacketed bullets. Did you check the bore to see if it was leading the barrel?

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Waiting for the break of day

According to Accurate's data that load is too hot for a 158 grain lead bullet of any description, they list 12.2 grains as maximum. I suspect the OP is using Lyman's data, a source I've found to be a bit old for 357 Magnum and probably worked up back in the 50's or 60's. I also suspect that when he checks his rifle's bore for leading he will be asking for advice on de-leading the barrel over in the Smithing section.

To the OP, DO NOT SHOOT A JACKETED BULLET THROUGH YOUR BARREL TO CLEAN THE LEAD OUT. This bit of Internet Lore has been proven to be damaging and potentially DANGEROUS. Because that leading in your barrel will not only destroy your accuracy if a jacketed bullet is fired in a barrel leaded this badly it will cause pressure spikes much higher than specified for the 357 Magnum. Yeah, I believe that you have badly leaded up your barrel and sympathize with the likely 12-20 hours of work you have ahead of you de-leading your barrel. I would advise you start shopping for some pure copper Chore Boy brand scrubbing pads and you may want to do a search for "Lead Remover Kit" on the Net. I've been there done that and learned that when shooting with lead bullets starting low and slow and paying attention to leading is the only safe approach. I'll also tell you that IMO Accurate #9 is NOT a good choice for even Hard Cast Lead Bullets, you should really be using Accurate #5 and loading to about 1000-1100 fps from a 20 inch barrel.

Finally, if you want good accuracy from a 357 Magnum rifle using a Quality bullet is CRITICAL. I've worked up two different loads for my 1892 Winchester that produce predictable 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards. Both loads feature Hornady's superb XTP Jacketed bullets. Load one is 14.8 grains of H110 with the 158 grain XTP and load two is 17.5 grains of H110 with the 140 grain XTP. Once you have your barrel truly clean again I would suggest you try loading some XTP's loaded with H110, because out of a rifle this powder is wonderful.

Scooter's absolutely correct. I don't envy you because of the amount of work ahead of you to remove the lead. I'd be surprised if you can even see the rifling after 75 overloads with lead bullets.

Buy some Trail Boss. It's designed for lead bullets and cowboy action shooting velocities.

If in fact you have leaded up the barrel and can not find the copper Chore Boys (must be that brand as others look like copper but they are not)
Look at a good hardware or Marine supply store that carries Bronze Wool. It is easier to find and works the same.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yes I was using Lyman rifle data. The bore was very dirty but it cleaned up without a lot of trouble. I've had serious leading problems with my 625 so I know what a leaded up bore looks like. It isn't pretty and hard to clean up. I have a good supply of Chore Boy.

I'm not going to even try using lead in this gun again. I want at least 1300 fps velocity so will buy some XTP bullets as suggested. I'm out of #9 and using 2400 now. I have a few of these left so will just pull the bullets.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of 357 load data out there for rifles other than cowboy action.

Thanks for the help.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Ive had great results from Federal 158gr JSP out of my 24" Rossi.

2400 is THE 357 Mag powder, just use handgun loads for the XTP

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Still Running Against the Wind

If you can find them, gas checked bullets work better than plain based. I have two moulds a Lyman #358156 which is a 155 grain , gas checked, SWC and a Lee #C358-158-SWC which is a 158 grain , gas checked, SWC and both are excellent in the 357 magnum handgun or rifle loads.
The gas check works wonders, makes load development a whole lot easier.
I also use them in 38 special loads too.
Gary

Every Loading manual I own has recipes for .357 Rifle.....so does the Hodgdon website, and these are not cowboy action loads. Besides, any published load that is safe for a modern revolver is also safe for a modern .357 rifle/carbine. Your are loading for the cartridge, not the platform.

Ruger advises against lead bullets in both of their handgun caliber 77 carbines. Don't know if it's the rifling or what, but it is what it is.

Speer manuals have plenty of data in the rifle section but they are for jacketed bullets. I'll be the Lyman has loads for lead bullets in rifles.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Not to hijack here, but does anyone load .357 pistol bullets in .35 Remington? I have an assortment of bullets and powders and was thinking of using 158 or heavier jacketed slugs with something like 2400 or H110 for plinking and maybe small game in an older Marlin 336.

Lost, glad to hear that you didn't lead up you barrel as badly as I feared. I tried some Blazer LRN in my model 620 and just 50 rounds of that horrid ammo had me scrubbing the barrel for 12 hours or a bit more. Not at all something I would consider even remotely enjoyable.

Tip, get the Hornady loading manual. My experience with this manual is that the more I use the loads listed the more I respect Hornady's approach. Because while their data usually lists lighter charges than Hodgdon or Lyman I've found when I use Hornady's data I get a VERY VERY accurate load.

I'll also point out that when you start comparing Handgun and Rifle load data listings you will find that the powder charges are usually duplicated and only the produced velocity changes. So, don't worry a bit about using Handgun data to work up a rifle load, it won't cause an unsafe pressure situation.

Finally, if you have 2400 use that 2400 for your rifle loads. It's been my experience that slower powders such as 2400 or H110 really "wake up" when used in a longer barrel. The produced velocity for even a somewhat light load is excellent and a well tuned load in a rifle can produce fantastic accuracy.

BTW, the two loads listed in my last post have a produced velocity of 1615 fps for the 158 grain XTP and 1875 fps for the 140 grain XTP. Both loads were shot from my 20 inch Winchester and both yielded 1 MOA using a rear tang peep sight.

Some good info there scooter. Now I'm on track. Thanks.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Tried it.... But put 158XTP on top of the 200gr FTX load I was making.

Scope didnt have enough adjustment to get it on the paper....

I did'nt get any farther then that... LOL

My Speer #13 Manual has loads for their 158 gr jacketed
bullets with the standard rifle powders.

LostintheOzone, I found the issue of Rifle magazine that has the
article on the Rugers. It's July 2012 #263 and it was the 77/44 that
Brian lapped the bore of not the .357. I edited the other post. The
article would be a good read for you if you have the issue or can get
one.

I've been working up loads for my new Henry Big Boy in .357. I've been mainly exploring plated bullets, as my daughter runs through the better part of 100 rounds a week, and that is before I get a chance to run a few.

I've been using the standard plated, which limits velocity somewhat. I need to stay under 1200 fps. HP38 does this nicely. I have had decent accuracy with mid to upper lead data using HP38. I have noticed I consistently get at least one flyer per 5 shot group with this load. Decided to try some of the CFE pistol that I had on hand. The accuracy is very close to the factory .357s 158 grain SP jacketed. I can put 5 rounds through a single ragged hole at 15 yds at the local indoor range with the rifle propped on my range bag, using a red dot scope, no magnification. Not noticing any problems with flyers with the couple of groups I ran using CFE.

The CFE loads I have run are all start loads, as I am approaching the speed limit for these bullets. I am considering getting the heavy plated bullets, which are supposed to be good for 1500 fps. This would allow me to explore a lot more options for this rifle.

I just picked up some 4227, similar to H110, and a box of 158 grain XTP bullets. I ran a few of these at start loads, and got good accuracy. I was a little nervous about shooting them. This is the first time I have ever filled a .38/.357 case with powder. I'm used to a little smidgen of powder in the bottom of the case. I knew I could trust the data, but still had a butterfly or two on the first round. I plan on using this powder to develop some hunting rounds. Too expensive for plinking rounds. Between using 3 times the powder, it also requires jacketed bullets.

There are almost too many options out there. I don't have the time and money to try out all the different powder and bullets. Add to that the current availability of powder.

"Filling" a case with slow powder is general safer than a slight over charge of a fast powder. Slower powders are made to give almost max case capacity. Almost impossible to blow up with H110 in a large magnum case. Almost

Less chance of a kboom with say H110 then with Bullseye or Titegroup.

Max performance in a 357 with a jacket bullet is usually 2400 and or H110

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Still Running Against the Wind

Ruger advised against using cast bullets in their discontinued .44 Magnum semi-auto carbine as well. This is nothing new for them. I wouldn't recommend AA#9 either but their slightly slower 4100 powder is very good and burns clean. Ramshot Enforcer is the same powder; both are made by Western.

I've worked "at" loads for an 1894 Marlin with cast bullets. Conclusion I have reached is that cast bullets basically have a speed limit in the 13-14 hundred fps range if good accuracy is to be obtained. IOW, I've learned to accept that the rifle loads won't be any faster than handgun loads it's just a lot easier to shoot a carbine than a handgun.
So there's a reason the ancients shot HEAVY for caliber bullets at 12-13 fps.
Biggest surprise I 've had with lead projectiles is that Remington Sluggers out of my CZ pump zombie killer (18" barrel) group as tightly at 100 yds as my Mosin or for that matter the Garand I borrowed from the club CMP. Who needs to spin a bullet, LOL.

I've loaded a few full power 357 mag loads for my Marlin 94 with it's
18.5" barrel. My rifle is the older pre safety model with micro groove
rifling so I didn't even consider cast bullets. My goal was to reach
1800 fps with the Hornady 158 gr XTP bullet using W296 powder. I
did with 17.0 grs of 296. I think higher velocity is possible with Lil Gun
powder so I plan to try it some day with the one can that I have.
Full case loads are the norm with full power 357 and 44 mag loads
with slow powders.

Thanks. I think I may have that manual.