Still kind of new at this caliber reloading and I'm wondering if my brass separation frustration is worth it.

Do you guys separate 223 v. 5.56 brass? I just got done with a bunch and many of the head stamps dont say which one it is. Is it safe to assume that if it doesn't say 223 on it, it's 5.56 brass?

I know, or at least someone told me that 5.56 brass is meant for loads with higher pressure, so when I load my long distance stuff with 77 grain bullets, i make sure the brass is 5.56.

Another thing that adds to this problem is that I'm a First Class Brass Whore and pick up every piece of brass I see. It's a honorable addiction but makes it cheaper to have the 40,000 loaded round inventory I have. I even reload (which I dont count in my inventory numbers) Wolf steel shells which contrary to popular belief ARE re-loadable. I took a count test with 45 ACP and stopped counting at 8 reloads with a handful of Wolf shells. You just want to have carbide dies and I doubt I'd try it with 9MM. But they are nice to use for action competition shoots when you really dont want to be trying to recover your brass.

It is a long drawn out battle (discussion) Lines are drawn in the sand, blood shed, Many many debates on it.

The major consensus is that it really makes no difference. For all intent they are the same,

Yes, I would say that if it is not stamped 223 than it is 5.56.

Once sized and trimmed you will not know the difference.

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Still Running Against the Wind

A lot of the 5.56 stuff will have the NATO headstamp. (Circle with a cross in it).

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Fight socialism. Never stop.

Since you've got so much brass, Midsouth has free shipping (through today) on Hornady 55g soft point w/canelure and multiple powders in 8 lbs jugs for great rounds Christmas in September!!!

I ordered Tuesday and everything arrived today!

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

If does not say 223, it is probably some arsenal brass----it will have the arsenal code and the year, i.e. TW 77, LC 79, WCC 80. More recent ammo has the NATO stamp as well. There is alot of Nato ammo being made here, Canada, Isreal, Korea, South Africa, etc.

Some will say that the military brass is a bit thicker (less room inside), so if on ragged edge of loading---to load accordingly.

I have done a weight test and this does not seem to be true unless, the reason I do not get heavier readings on military brass is because off a different mixture of the elements (copper and zinc).

You did say something about long distance shooting---so----using the same headstamp for THAT could likely help your consistency or groups.

I throw them all in a bucket and load them indiscriminately, except for my accuracy loads. These are close in weight, matching headstamp, etc. They are kept in a separate container away from the other stuff.

Cut the crimp out of the primer pocket, and load em all up.

Thanks I've got lots of powder and bullets: I'm always taking advantage of sales.

That's kind of what I thought, no 223 probably 5.56. Yea I've been loading for more than 40 years, I watch head stamp on my, I call them, "money shots". I keep a good stash well labeled.

OK a little change of subject. I have both the primer pocket reamer...the RCBS multi task gizmo and I think it's an RCBS swagger.

Does it make any difference other than swagging is much faster I find anyway.

I've found a quick twist with a chamfer tool does the trick. As long as you can seat a primer, well, that's what you're looking for.

The brass is exactly the same except for the headstamp. What IS different is that 5.56 factory rounds are loaded hotter because the 5.56 chamber is larger and will keep pressures down. 223 chambers are more shallow and are considered unsafe with 5.56 spec. ammo.

I had 2 different swaggers, Sold both I prefer to chuck the reamer in a drill and just ream them out. Makes no difference again, Get the crimp out is all that matters.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks for everything guys.

I have the Dillon swagger and it is very fast and saves wear and tear on the fingers.

I agree that their is no real difference from mil spec case to another. However when I want decent accuracy I sort them for the same head stamp. However if I really want to wring the most out of the load , rifle and me I use commercial brass from the same lot and sorted by weight. I find Winchester the best commercial brass but Lapua , Norma and Nosler a cut above.

Once 5.56 is fired, the brass becomes .223 brass for all intents and purposes. There is no point in separating by headstamp unless you are benchrest shooting or similar.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

So if I understand you correctly I can reload 5.56 brass to .233 powder specs and shoot them out of my Target Model Mini 14 that specifically states that I shoot only use .233 ammo.

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda

Yes. There are no 5.56 reloading dies, The rifles chambered in 223 can withstand 223 pressure, those chambered in 5.56 can shoot either.

Look in the manuals, there are 223 loads and SERVICE rifle loads, You want the 223 loads for a barrel stamped 223.

It's all in the pressure of the ammo.

My Mini 14 can shoot either as it is stamped 5.56.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yes. I have a 5.56 and I load to that specification.
My brass is ALL range brass. Some is ex-military 5.56, some is .223. They all get the same reloads and they all function just fine.
The only caveat would involve folks seeing reloads in .223 marked cases that are actually loaded to 5.56 spec. So you must be careful when shooting reloads that you personally did not load. I would not give any of my reloads to someone else unless I knew for sure what rifle he would be shooting them in.
Frankly, I made sure that I owned a 5.56 so I wouldn't have to worry about it.

IF you do end up loading 5.56 brass for the Target Mini14(223 only) I might suggest a mark of some sort(sharpie over primer works for me) to insure you are in fact shooting a reloaded 5.56 case within 223 specs rather than a factory 5.56. Whatever works for you. Only reason I do this is I ended up trimming a bunch of 357 brass for the 140FTX or whatever load needed trimmed brass, than ended up with a bunch of mixed up 357 brass.

Point is just try to not get any factory 5.56 rounds mixed up with your "loaded down" 5.56 rounds.
Safe shooting

Thanks for the responses, first off I would only shoot my own reloads. Unfortunately the target model of mini 14 only comes in the 233 configuration and since I was looking for the most accurate mini 14 so its the one I bought. I thought maybe there was a difference in the brass case between the 5.56 and the 233.

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda

I sort by headstamp simply because different lots of brass have different annealing. Different annealing and will spring back differently. Bullet pull will vary.

Will it make a difference? Probably not, but it's just what I've always done.

I stopped using range pick-up brass. I began having strange neck cracks in brass that looked perfect. My guns are worth too much to take a chance. Besides, brass is coming back on the market, although it's no longer cheap.

I still pick up brass. I recycle it at the local salvage yard to help finance my habit.

Yea but not the other way around.

With reloaded ammo it does not matter.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I was told that when it comes to pressure of hotter loads with heavier bullets the 5.56 shell is required.

If what you say is rue, why is there .223 ammunition and 5.56 ammunition?

I'm sure if your plinking with 55 grain bullets it doesn't matter, but load a hot load with a heavy bullet and I'm told it does matter.

Read post #11 and #17

This is FACTORY ammo:

5.56 ammo (aka Military ammo) is loaded at a higher pressure. So no you should not shoot that in a 223 marked chamber.

223 Rem is a lower pressure and can be used in 223 or 5.56.

Once the 5.56 is shot the brass does not matter, What matters is how it's reloaded, as I will say again, look in the manuals under 223 Rem and then look under 223/556 SERVICE loads. Those service loads are higher pressure, Why anyone needs to load those I have no idea, but I do not need that extra pressure even in a AR 15.

Hope that clears it up

PS: according to all the internet experts there is not clear data that shows a 5.56 is havier brass than a 223 Rem, I always thought it was. Perhaps in the begining it was but now there is so many brands and variables that it is pretty much the same, Is Lake City 556(Federal) any stronger the Federal 223??

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks that makes it real easy.

HEY someone from Cheyenne, I just moved from there to Pittsburgh, PA...I miss the government and their attitudes on guns but needed some oxygen so I moved to where this air. 6,200 feet to 1,200 feet = 3 liters of oxygen 24/7. Nothing worse then being tethered to oxygen.

Ever see a pistol caliber case marked +P? You aren't obligated to reload it to +P specs. Same brass; different markings.

I am at 3 to 4 feet above sea level (really) with most of the "air" is humidity!

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Still Running Against the Wind

The reason for the two designations of the same case is 5.56 is a NATO designation in mm's whereas the .223 is American caliber for the same round. The difference is in the pressure loading in the original cartridge; As has been stated, DON'T fire 5.56 ammo in a weapon marked for .223.


Jim

This question was based on reloading. the normal 5.56 / .223 wars don't need to apply.... Clean, Size, DeCap, Trim and be happy.

Stay below max load and be happy. Shoot your reloaded 5.56 in your .223 and be happy.

It's all about being happy..... To stay happy, stay below max on .223 and load to your hearts content. Push your loads to max and them you will not be happy and that .223 / 5.56 **** might be worth discussing.


I do pull my favorite .223 head stamp for my special loads.

Well as I mentioned in a previous post , if all you're doing is plinking, it doesn't seem to matter; I dont plink all the time. I segregate my brass because I built what I call my sniper 5.56 AR with a 24" bull barrel with the intent of target shooting at 600 yards loading 21.8 grains of 322 firing a 77 grain HPBT bullet. Ya just dont do that in 223 brass so I thought and have confirmed here.

This site might help many of you understand where I'm coming from. I'm a card cutter, not with a 223 of coursed but a hand held Kimber 45 ACP at 35'; Accuracy is a challenge I strive to beat.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

okay, the rule is you can shoot .223 ammunition in rifles chambered for 5.56
but the opposite is not true - so the second part of the rule is don't shoot 5.56 ammunition in rifles chambered for .223

and this rule is for the safety of shooters around the world and helps prevent gun damage

factory ammo is properly labeled so shooters can tell the difference and be safe and keep their guns from damage

so to keep shooters safe and to keep their guns undamaged....using reloaded ammunition

maybe .223 and 5.56 case manufacturers could permanently mark their cases in some fashion - say a permanent stamp on the bottom of the case using internationally understood symbols and letters and numbers -- so shooters can tell the difference between the different reloaded ammunition and stay safe

c'mon, its not like we are running with scissors or playing with gunpowder

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

There are TWO separate issues here:

1] Loaded bullet and powder charge in the case.

2] Rifle chamber

The loaded ammo is what it is. The new ammo is loaded per the label on the box. RELOADED ammo is whatever is in the case per the reloader's label. It is the powder charge and bullet combination that is important, not the headstamp on the case.

The rifle chamber determines 5.56 versus .223. A longer chamber leade, throat, or free bore, is the start of the barrel without rifling. A short throat barrel is .223, a long throat barrel is 5.56.

A fired rifle case is nothing more than a container for powder and a holder for the primer and bullet. Think of a glass: water glass, wine glass, highball glass, beer glass, or Mason jar. Pick any glass and you can put any thing in it you want. The glass don't care, fine wine, home made beer, cheap whiskey, or rare Scotch whiskey, fills the glass.

What you load that empty case with; min or max powder charger, light or heavy bullet, short or long overall length will determine 223 Rem or 5.56 NATO ammunition pressure level. The head stamp on the case doesn't mean anything for reloaded ammo or what you put in the case.

Simplicity is sometimes very difficult to accept. I have shot the rifling out of 3 barrels. I've killed lots of prairie dogs at long range and missed lots of dogs at all ranges. I don't spend 5 minutes analyzing range conditions, target distances, or reading ballistic tables before I pull the trigger. I came to shoot, I brought 3,000 rounds of ammo for 6 days, and I came to squeeze the trigger. One barrel is stamped 5.56, the other barrel 223 Rem, both guns shoot the same loaded ammo. I want to shoot safe ammo. I don't worry about perfect ammo, clean primer pockets, surgically clean brass, powder charge ± 0.01 grain, or COL ± 0.001" You hit the target -- find another target. You missed the target -- shoot again.

Rifle ranges have somewhat constant or controlled conditions. Open fields or pastures constantly change wind direction and velocity, the target is never at a measured distance or a constant distance. For me, life is too short to worry about trivial details. I have friends that reload like me and are excellent shots. I have friends that obsess about every detail and can't hit the barn if they are inside with the door shut. I won't bore you with the fine details but that's life.

Carry on to your level of happiness -- it ain't that tough. Be carefull.

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S&WHF 366

I load all mine with 223 data. If I need more than that, I'll grab a 30-06.

It's the sport of putting holes in paper that drives me.

Well I've been intending to do this since this thread started going back and forth and your post made me get the digital scale out.

I reached into a sizable container of .223 and 5.56 brass (so to speak), pulled three of each out and weighed them.

.223 weights
92.9 g
93.4 g
92.8 g

5.56 weights
92.0 g
92.8 g
91.3 g

I was surprised that the 5.56 weighed less. Now these are deprimed and waiting for steel pin tumbling so there is residue in all of them. But having all been loaded with the same power, I cant imagine that making a huge difference.

So the question remains, what's the difference between .223 and 5.56? Is it just that 5.56 are hotter loads, because I keep hearing about pressure and they dont want you shooting 5.56 hot loads out of a .223 gun not designed for the pressure of a hot 5.56 load?

Is this crazy or what?

^^^^ Lawyers ^^^^ Yes 5.56 is hotter. No it isn't crazy, it is basic reloading -- heavier bullet, more powder is a faster velocity, higher pressure load. It is the same as [223] CCI Standard velocity (target ammo) and [5.56] CCI Stinger Hyper Velocity ammo


Ammo companies want you to be responsible for your mistakes -- novel concept in this day and age.

223 Rem: Maybe lighter bullet, maybe shorter overall cartridge length, maybe smaller powder charge, rifle may have the rifling start sooner in the barrel (shorter lead). If everything is correct, you should have an accurate load with lower peak chamber pressure and lower velocity.

5.56 NATO: Maybe heavier bullet, maybe longer overall cartridge length, maybe larger powder charge, rifle may have the rifling start later in the barrel (longer lead). If everything is correct, you should have an accurate load with higher peak chamber pressure and higher velocity.

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S&WHF 366