I found an old thread about this powder. It seemed that no one had much experience with it at that time. My LGS had some today and it was the first time I have seen it. I bought a pound and was wondering what some of you think about this
powder.Thanks in advance
Dan

I am away from my data but as I remember it is quite versatile.

its gradually winning me over.
It tries hard to be Unique while trying harder not to be.

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it just needs more voltage

It meters like water and gives +P velocities at non+P pressures. What's not to like?

Accuracy may be excellent, but it's not a target powder like some of the older classics.

CFE pistol did not fair well in my 38 snub nose or light target loads in the 6"....... However it did better in medium to full loads in the longer barrel.

With the 357 6" it matched w231 with the 125gr FTX bullet and did well with medium to heavy loads with a 158 lead bullet.

In my 9mm's it did well with target loads with the 115 and 124gr plated RN bullets but lacked fps in the full loads out of my short barrels of 3 and 3.5"
Accuracy and fps were poor with the larger 147gr bullet but that was expected with the "Almost" Unique powder.

It falls between w231 and Unique, so it can work for a lot of loads, just depends on barrel length and velocity needed.

I like it. It is one of the better powders I have used in .38 and .357 magnum with 158 gr plated/jacketed, as well as 9mm 124 gr plated. I have used Titegroup, Universal, PB, Bullseye, Power Pistol, and HP38.

I would rate it as #2 on the list, with Universal #1.

All well and good but doe it keep your pistols clean?

I want PbFE powder

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Still Running Against the Wind

I can't tell any difference in cleanliness.

Actually, it's fouling seems a little more persistent though overall, it seems cleaner.

Seems harbor freight has PbFE powder covered rather well.

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it just needs more voltage

Very clean great powder for 10mm

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thats wicked pissah

Jeff Cooper used to say about double action auto's "It's an innovative solution to a nonexistent problem". I have never had any copper problems in handgun loads. With cast bullets yes but I don't think this is their claim to fame. I guess one more good powder is a plus though.

I posted that I thought it was market hype a long time ago when the first announced it. Or the rifle version maybe??

Someone on another forum is stating that the Hodgdon data for the 40 SW is way to hot?? I don't know never used it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

A few days ago I tried a series of loads using Xtreme's 165gr RNFP & CFE-P (6.6, 6.9, 7.2, 7.5grs) in my 4013. Wasn't too happy with the combo, accuracy wise. (Hodgdon's load data for the 165gr Sierra JHP & Berry's P-FP is a little odd looking.) Had some good results in 45Auto as well as in my 357Mag with it though.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I bought this powder not for the CFE on the container but because it said PISTOL. Pistol powder especially the old standbys have hard to come by. The past two years I have used 4 or 5 powders that i had not used before. My problem with some of these powders was not copper fouling but powder fouling. Now I have one more to try. Thanks again for the replies. If any one has load data for 380 using lead or plated bullets I would be grateful.
Dan

Ummmm.? Hodgdon does.

You can use plated or FMJ data for lead/plated.Use the start loads. As long as the bullet weight is the same, the COL WILL be Different.

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have used this powder for quite some time now switched to it when my container of Titegroup got real low. It was all I could find at the time and I have ran chrono test of it in 9mm, 38/357, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I did find that it was position sensitive in long cases with a low fill %. Also wasn't impressed with the vel I was getting with it in 357 Mag loads kind if powder puff loads. Shot great groups, not much fireball so they would make fine target loads. If anyone ask what you were shooting in that 357 you could always say 38 loads. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

+1;
on light 38 special. (158gr target loads)
I started .3 grs below the starting load to see what the fps might be.
The paper target had a 3" plus "Pattern" !!

.5 grs below maximum was the best load in my 6" revolver.
Target pictures posted, months ago.

In my testing, CFE and HS-6 both do better with jacketed type bullets far out doing the lead bullets in accuracy and range.
Both are dirty at the bottom starting range and 9mm cases are very dirty but will eject, in my testing.
(pic posted )

CFE can work with light target loads but I think it was designed mainly for medium to near maximum loads.
Good shooting.

I've been happy with my .357 mg 158 gr LSWC light to moderate loads. Was also pleasantly surprised with my rifle and the same load.
Originally got to it try in my 9mm, but have yet to find a good 9mm load. Still working on that.

Thanks Rule3 maybe I'm overly careful but the Hodgdon data for 380 acp only shows BAR TAC XP and jacketed bullets. I though someone might have data specifically for lead or copper plated lead bullets.
Thanks Dan

The powder is to new to be in any manual. Not all bullets of every make and profile will ever be listed in the manuals or in print. You have to know and learn how to adapt or interpolate.

As I said you can use the jacketed data for plated bullets. Just as the folks who make jacketed tell you you can (use the mid range) I suggested the start load. Same with lead bullets there is less pressure so upi will gain a bit in velocity.

Research if you must but we have been doing it for a long time.

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1...d_Bullets.aspx

" currently published load data is limited to some calibers by Accurate, Western Powders and Hodgdon. We are working with these companies to get data published for all of our bullets.

We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.


Other than the data from Western and Accurate for the 9mm, .40S&W and Hodgdon .40S&W there is no printed data available.

For further questions you can email [email protected]"

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks Rule3 for the info.

I haven't used the pistol version but have used the CFE223. Since my 223 rifle features a Shilen Match barrel I am rather fussy about copper fouling. With loads using CFE223 it takes about 1/3 to 1/2 the effort to get the barrel completely free of any trace of visible copper streaking. So, I am quite certain that copper fouling eliminator bit is more than simple marketing hype.

However, in terms of cleanliness in the area of the bolt carrier and the bolt itself I find CFE223 to be a bit "dirty" with a well crimped load and absolutely foul shooting with uncrimped loads.

Perhaps both may be a benefit for those that shoot a whole lot of rounds in one outing I certainly do not shoot that much and really clean my guns, (rifles and handguns) well the same or next day. Plus I shoot several guns so not one gun is receiving all the fouling. 5 or 50 rounds they get cleaned.

With all the rain, floods and heat I haven't shot anything!!

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Still Running Against the Wind

The only loads with CFE pistol so far have been 6.5gr. with a 240gr. LSWC for 44 special. Hodgdon lists 6.6gr. as max for 44 special at 898 FPS. I didn't shoot for accuracy as I was having to much fun knocking down steel plates. The loads were plenty accurate for 10" plates at 20 yards. Didn't seem to shoot dirty and the brass was clean too. I could shoot these all day but will tone them down as my daughter likes shooting my 21-4. Hope it stays clean as I have 8 pounds of this stuff!

A lot of the Open Division shooters I know use CFE Pistol for Major PF loads, I use Autocomp for my major loads but that's because I have a lot of it. I've worked up a major load for CFE, and when I load a bunch of minor PF loads for my wife, I use 5gr of CFE pistol under a 124 RN plated bullet and get right around 1100 fps. I still have my suspicions that Autocomp and CFE Pistol is the same powder much like 231 and HP38 but nobody at Winchester or Hodgdon will admit it. I can switch powders and not change any adjustment to the powder measure and it meters exactly the same weight of powder and it chronos exactly the same velocity. Kinda one of those "If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck............." deals. I will vouch that it likes to be loaded at the top of the range (or over in the case of Major PF ) I think the "copper eraser" is a marketing ploy, not going to get any copper fouling at handgun speeds (even my 1400 fps major loads). It's a good powder. (IMO)

But at the same time, if the companies can introduce a new powder with copper erasing technology, temperature insensitivity, and flash suppressants, why not?

I've always found the discussions about clean vesus dirty burning powders interesting. You eventually need to clean the gun under either circumstance, so it really shouldn't matter.

I bought a big container of Auto Comp some time ago when I couldn't find HP 38. I like it but it seems you need to use a bit more of it. Talk about hype!

It magically fills your compensator with enough gas?? Magic gas that is not gas in the actually burning in the case??

"AUTOCOMP is extremely fine in the 38 Super, 9mm, 45 ACP and 40 S&W race guns. It’s just the perfect burning speed to feed the compensators with a higher volume of gas. With AUTOCOMP competitors get off faster shots with minimal muzzle flash, it’s a winner."

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have tried CFE Pistol in 380 AUTO, 38 Special, 9mm Luger, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt. It is a standout in 9mm.

My observations seem to indicate that CFE-P performs best in higher pressure cartridges. At lower charge levels, it has erratic velocities with low averages, but it seems to "wake up" and settle down at higher charge levels.

It does not like short barrels. It was the worst powder I have ever tried in a 38 snubbie. In a short barreled 45 Colt (Governor), it performed fairly well if a magnum primer was used.

In 380 AUTO and 45 ACP, it got the bullet out of the barrel, but there are far better choices in each of these calibers. I could not even come close to the velocities stated on the Hodgdon website for their 45 ACP recipes. Their highest charge (6.8 grains) made the equivalent of factory hardball. Nothing exciting here. All of my 380 AUTO test loads had a velocity spread of over 120 FPS, which is not acceptable by any standard.

Hope that helps.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

A most excellent load. This is my goto 9mm target and plinking load.


I looked at my chrono data and saw that the same charge weight of each powder was producing almost identical results. The one "flyer" was 45 ACP where 6.6 gr of CFE-P made a 230 GR RN go downrange at 728 FPS, but 6.6 gr of AutoComp made the same bullet go to 795 (both in a 4.4" barrel). That seems significantly different.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Like many others I long for each of my favorite powders, but that was then and this is now. Spilled milk, big boy pants, and all the rest, I realize it's time for me to move on and to be content that there is any pistol powder to load.
Ordered 4lbs of Zip and CFE pistol powder awhile back. (thought Zip would be a replacement for 231, not so[to me] closer to AA2) First results with Zip were disappointing (38 special/6in barrel). Tried to trade it off, but no one knew much about it and I had NO takers. That turned out to be a blessing! Outstanding powder in all auto cases that I've loaded for at this time. Trade it now? Not a chance! Should you find some-BUY IT.
Taking the chance that this statement very well may sound just a little more than stupid, I'm "saving" the 4lbs of CFE! It seems to work for just about everything I load and I've found some Winchester Auto-Comp locally and it's working out really well. Same story with AA9 there isn't any 2400 or 296 to be had so use what I can find-AA9! I'm sure each of us could play "yea but" till daylight! Speaking only for myself I'd much rather be at the range shooting than setting home fiddling with an empty gun wish I was shooting!

I'm taking a liking to it. In .45acp, it's doing great with 200gr plated from Rocky Mountain Reloading, from all my .45 semi-autos.

About to load up a bunch of .357 magnum with 158gr plated (also from RMR).

Nothing to complain about from me. It's powder, it goes bang and it's available!

I'm a long time user of Power Pistol under 158 gr. JHP's in my 357 Magnums but in the last couple of months have switched over to CFE Pistol. It's slightly less accurate than Power Pistol when shooting off a solid rest with a 2X scope but not enough to show up in a real world situation. (Especially with my old eyes). The reason I like it so much is there is way less "drama" involved in touching off a round with CFE compared to Power Pistol. That big fireball never happens.

Agreed

I think it is too slow for low pressure rounds like 380, 45 acp, 38 special (only based on it's relative burn rate)

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have been a long time user of W231 for my 380 and 9mm. I shoot a lot of IDPA however with the colder weather coming I am worried about outside performance of W231 and not having to work up a new cold temp load.

I set out to get some TG but I was persuaded to buy a pound of CFE Pistol by a guy who uses it for 45. I have been looking at load data and need to make PF for IDPA. I thought an initial starting 9mm load would like this:

Primer: Federal SP
Powder: 5.3 CFE Pistol
Bullet: 124 gr. Berry's HBRN TP
COL: 1.150

I would like to get velocities right around 1050 for a PF of 130.

You didn't mention your barrel length, but in my gun (5") I would expect around 140PF with that load. But, every gun is different, you'd have to chrono your particular gun.

I have a chrono. I am using an M&P Full Size with 4.25" barrel.

I have no desire for a 140PF. Maybe I should start with 5.1 gr.

That load will make 1,085 FPS from a 3.9" barrel. You will get slightly higher from a 4.25" barrel. 5.1 will make 1,052 from a 3.9" barrel.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Thanks. After reading he data here and from another website I am thinking of loading up 50 with 5.1 and 50 with 5.2 and running them through a chrono and going from there.

If you are shooting for exactly 1,050 FPS, you might try a few at 5.0 grains too. Your barrel is slightly longer than my test barrel, so that may be the load you are looking for.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

I have a pound but have been using power pistol for almost everything now with good results don't really know if I will see a difference until I try it

Power Pistol is great stuff. I think it may be my overall favorite powder. I have not found a cartridge that it does not work well in yet. It may even have actual "magic" as an ingredient

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

CFE pistol works for me in my little 3.5" 9mm.

115 plated with 5.5 grs........... 124 plated with 5.0 grs.
Both a very nice and accurate target load at POA.

+1 on post #25........
I think A/C and CFE are the same duck............
Fill a 9mm case up to the top with both and then weigh them.

If you did the old "Shell game" I bet the player would be scratching his head for a long, long time on the "Twins"......
but no one is talking.

HP38 and w231 rings a bell, but no one is answering the door.