I was preping 38 spl cases and found one that wouldn't stay in my shell holder. It is marked WESTERN 38spl SR, it looks like a 38 spl but rimless, anyone run across this?

__________________
NRA Life Member
CPO

I might actually be a 38AMU

Is there a large auto pistol style extractor groove in the case? Or is it a normal skinny looking groove?

I picked up a few , years ago , at a local indoor shooting range.
All were marked 38 AMU , stands for Army Marksmanship Unit.
I believe the guns were 1911's manufactured to shoot the rimless ammo.
The idea might have come from the conversions Jim Clark did to make a 1911 shoot rimmed 38 special ammo. The rimless case sure would make feeding easier. Interestingly, Clark Custom guns will still do a 1911-38 special gun, not sure if they provide a 38 AMU, but I bet they could.
Gary

The .38 AMU had some popularity with military teams back in the 1960s. Just a semi-rim .38 Special. I have some cases somewhere which I picked up off the ground at Quantico back then. It's actually semi-rimmed, and there is enough rim for it to be used in revolvers as well as semi-autos. Strictly a target loading. I think there were several autopistols made to use it. I don't remember much of what I used to know about it, but there's sure to be considerable information only a Google away.

WESTERN 38spl SR = Semi-rimmed

Ran across one at a Dallas gun show. He claimed it would shoot 38 special also. He wonted $1300 at the time & it looked good. I still know how to contact him through a friend. He shot in Swizerland .

BINGO, that was it! Thanks colt_saa the pic is exactly what I have. The SR now makes sense semi rimed. Thanks guys your the best!!!
Grabber

__________________
NRA Life Member
CPO

"I(t) might actually be a 38AMU"

.38 Spl. SR and .38 AMU are the same cartridge, it isn't a matter of being one or the other.

Designed sometime late 1950s by members of the Army Marksmanship Unit at Ft. Benning, GA for 1911s converted to the cartridge. They were having problems at the time with getting the standard .38 Mid-Range wad-cutter ammunition to feed in the guns and this was a way to get around the problem. Once Colt got the Gold Cup .38 sorted out the need for the .38 AMU disappeared.

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

Hi,
Just some more info on the 38 AMU (aka 38 SR).
The service pistol teams in the 1950s wanted a 38 wadcutter in a 1911 for use in the centerfire portion of the 2700 matches. This was considered to be of critical importance at a time when every edge was needed in the National Matches and Service Matches. Several individuals and service marksmanship units worked on using standard 38 special and the 38 AMU, with a bewildering amount of independent and codependent efforts, not to mention a certain amount of secrecy! Herman Gano, a senior armorer with the USAAMU, worked on the 38 special case and semi-rimmed variations in 1958.
The advantage of the 38 AMU is that it has the same head size as a 38 Super, so factory 1911 slides could be used as is. The 38 Super magazine needed very little tweaking to get it to function with the new cartridge. By comparison, a 1911 needs a good bit more work to function with the 38 special, including opening the breech face, altering the extractor, and more extensive mods to the magazines.
Colt helped facilitate this by producing 38 special parts kits and 38 AMU parts kits as early as 1960, although their collaboration had been going on for a couple years.
By the time the 38 AMU was fully developed, late in 1960, several gunsmiths were successfully making and selling 38 special modified 1911s, including John Giles, R.L. Schockey, and Jim Clark as early as 1958 or 1959. Some of these guys used the Colt parts kits, but both Giles and Clark made some of their best conversions by fabricating ALL of their own parts.
Remington, Winchester and Federal were all competing heavily to win service contracts for match grade 38 special wadcutter ammo. So, things were already stacking against the 38 AMU.
What really hurt the 38 AMU was the 1963 Mid-Winter Matches. The Army AMU, using the 38 AMU, was edged out by the Air Force team, using 38 special converted 1911s with "secret" match grade barrels made by Smith & Wesson. Machine rest accuracy tests determined that the narrow semi-rim of the 38 AMU case, combined with a tapered free-bore barrel throat (to imitate a revolver forcing cone) were causing a fall-off in accuracy. Many AMU pistols were thus converted to 38 special.
By the way, S&W made a small number of model 52s in 38 AMU. Go price them today!!
If you have a 38 AMU, brass is very easy to make. 38 special cases can be turned on a lathe using a cutter on the cross feed tool holder and a travel stop to control the diameter of cut. With a case mouth tapered holder in the chuck, it only takes a few seconds per case.
In either instance, a well made 1911 in 38 special or AMU is a really fantastic target shooting instrument!

Best Regards,
Jim

Jim, the S&W made to fire the .38AMU was a model 52a. While the 52a bears the number of the 52 target pistol, the 52a was actually built on a model 39 frame, shorter than the production target model 52s.

I have a theory about development pistols after the model 39 was released. S&W designated (at least in shop) models 39-1 and 39-2 that did not leave the factory as the production model 39-2. I believe in the development stages the 52a, .38 AMU, started in ink as the 39-1 (IIRC).

I own a 39-2 in the 62xxx that is a steel frame, double stack. Numbered within one the production model 39 steel frame batches but is more of a 147a than a 39, clearly stamped 39-2.

__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I recently purchased 1200, once fired cases advertised as .38 AMU. Of the 1200 cases (I didn't stop to count or separate matched cases yet) there are about 600 nickel plated and the other 600 just the plain brass. Seems all the nickel plated are stamped .38AMU and all (or almost all) of the plain brass are stamped .38 SPL-SR.

No matter how old you get or how much you think you know ... you can learn something new every day if you keep an open mind.

I was originally upset that appx. 600 cases came through with head stamps other than .38 AMU until I researched to find this thread. The .38 AMU and the .38 SPL SR cases measure out as identical.

__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425