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10-16-2015, 03:31 AM
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From now on I will make sure I wade neck deep through water before handling any gun powder.
On the serious side Im really glad that primer did not ignite. That was a too close for comfort close call.
Jim
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10-16-2015, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce
I recently bought a couple lbs. of Bullseye.
When I got home I opened one to use and found the sealing paper was torn and obviously the container was opened before I bought it.
I am betting sabotage at the show level at this point.
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I recently bought two 8# jugs of H335 from Powder Valley.
Neither of the seals on the bottles were actually "sealed", they lifted right off .
The reason I know that is because when I opened the first bottle and saw that it didn't appear to be at least "stuck" to the rim of the jug, I went and looked at the other jug and it was the same way.
I feel that it is unlikely that a company like Powder Valley, that sells in large volume, messes with individual product packages.
It is also likely that Powder Valley gets their shipments directly from a distributor or manufacturer, so in-between tampering is unlikely there as well.
Therefore, I have simply concluded that the seals that Hodgdon puts on their bottles of powder are not actually sealed, but are used to be a simple barrier to contamination and moisture.
Keep in mind that powder is not really very sensitive to storage conditions except for high heat. Humidity (as long as the bottle is capped) and long term storage (decades) doesn't seem to have any effect on it's quality.
That may be why powder bottles aren't sealed like Aspirin, or even like Twinkies.
I personally wish that they would put a shrink seal around the cap that had to be cut open to use, not for any additional needed sealing, but so that we consumers who buy the new product are guaranteed that it is in fact a "factory sealed bottle".
Short observation based upon what we know about manufacturing methods and safeguards; no bottle of powder from any company has ever been shipped with a primer (of all things ) inside a bottle of new powder.
So, case closed. Accept that some individual along the way made a mistake and move on. "But hey; be careful out there". (A quote from an old TV show from years ago... "Hill Street Blues". )
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10-16-2015, 11:19 AM
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I sell powder and primers at shows and can tell you that people pick up a can(bottle) of powder and immediately start to take the top off. I tell every one if they break the seal they bought it. Almost every one says I just wanted to make sure it was a sealed can. 80% or more of the time the seal will tear or come off with careless opening. I have a sign on the table now. People get PO'd when I tell 'em about breaking the seals and they buy it. If I have a partial can of powder I mark it as such. I have a few now. AS 4831SC E3 and a few others. Usually larger containers that I tried and didn't like or powders I quit using. (Shotgun powders cause I no longer load 12 ga ) or 4831SC cause it is faster burning than the older 4831. If I didn't open it..I don't sell it. ...but I MAY use it. Most powders can with a bit of inspection be identified. I have gotten some cans of powder from an estate that were mixed..but almost every one was marked that way....by the goober that did it. Never could figure why they didn't destroy it. Have never ever found even an opened bottle of powder with a primer. But I have had some with shot in it. LOL. Heck I even did that. But it is easy to clean out.
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10-16-2015, 11:19 AM
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US Veteran Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker
Therefore, I have simply concluded that the seals that Hodgdon puts on their bottles of powder are not actually sealed, but are used to be a simple barrier to contamination and moisture.
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I've found that in 1# bottles of Alliant as well.
On a 1# bottle of Hodgdon I used some, put it away and the next time I opened it the seal had "reglued" itself and would have passed for "new."
I think the glue they use is just kind of inconsistent.
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10-16-2015, 11:47 AM
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BTW.. if you need to know a pound container of Hodgdon powder in plastic containers weighs 1 pound 2 point 9 ounces..give or take a tenth or two. Older metal cans of IMR are a little different. ICR right now the exact weight. I keep a chart of all powder weights. I still find a lot of new sealed cans of Dupont/IMR powders. In fact I got 6 lbs at an auction last week and 4 other partial cans that were collectible cans. I paid 40 bucks. Had one of them that was an ounce shy of full with Hodgdon surplus 4831. Priced 90 cents..and an even older can of original 4895 surplus from Hodgdon. Price on the can was 49 cents. Unfortunately some one had written on that can 50 gr with 150 gr bullet in grease pencil. LOL Probably done in the LGS that sold it for the purchaser. 4 ounces or so of powder and it is surely still good.
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10-16-2015, 01:58 PM
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I've thought it would be good to have a more positive way of identifying a new bottle of powder. The typical plastic shrink sleeve comes to mind, but I see a problem. These sleeves are heat shrunk in their application, maybe the reason that powder is not sealed in this way is that the manufacturer doesn't want to introduce a heat source into the manufacturing line. I'm thinking a "stretchy tape" thing would be a safer approach. Just musing here.
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10-16-2015, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkreutz
I've thought it would be good to have a more positive way of identifying a new bottle of powder. The typical plastic shrink sleeve comes to mind, but I see a problem. These sleeves are heat shrunk in their application, maybe the reason that powder is not sealed in this way is that the manufacturer doesn't want to introduce a heat source into the manufacturing line. I'm thinking a "stretchy tape" thing would be a safer approach. Just musing here.
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You saw that fly in the heat shrink ointment too .....
I am sure OSHA would love to see that rig.
What else would work might be the breakaway "milk jug ring" or the void tape found on computers
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it just needs more voltage
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10-16-2015, 03:40 PM
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Whats wrong with just a glued inner seal like most meds have.Or if you buy solvent in a plastic container it has a foil or waxed cardboard glued on there.?? It's not costly or hard to do.
Heck we sent Tang to the Moon
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10-16-2015, 07:03 PM
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After all this discussion about seals on powder, I opened a new bottle of powder today and the seal was actually still on the bottle. Maybe it has something to do with the age of the packaged powder. This is recent production. Maybe with time, the fumes from the powder attack the glue on the seal.
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10-16-2015, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkreutz
After all this discussion about seals on powder, I opened a new bottle of powder today and the seal was actually still on the bottle. Maybe it has something to do with the age of the packaged powder. This is recent production. Maybe with time, the fumes from the powder attack the glue on the seal.
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Yes those seals. It seems as you say that they become loose over time, guess they need a better glue.
I am taking all my powder to the Hospital ER on Halloween to have it scanned with my candy!
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Last edited by Rule3; 10-16-2015 at 07:25 PM.
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10-16-2015, 10:53 PM
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IMR used to put an inner cap in the can. Hercules used s metal lock ring Hodgdon used a piece of tape. In fact IMR uses a plastic lock ring on 8 lb containers. I have decided to tape all my for sale powders.
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10-16-2015, 11:32 PM
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During the height of the shortage......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeet 028
IMR used to put an inner cap in the can. Hercules used s metal lock ring Hodgdon used a piece of tape. In fact IMR uses a plastic lock ring on 8 lb containers. I have decided to tape all my for sale powders.
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During the height of the powder shortage with severe limits the LGS started putting tape over the tops of pistol powder containers. I'll bet people were bringing baggies and filling them up and put the bottles back on the shelf.
Oh, while I'm here let me address the concern about a primer igniting inside a container of powder. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that a primer could get a strike required for ignition when it's surrounded by nothing but powder and the bottle. It's like being in bubble wrap.
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Last edited by rwsmith; 10-16-2015 at 11:37 PM.
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10-17-2015, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Whats wrong with just a glued inner seal like most meds have.Or if you buy solvent in a plastic container it has a foil or waxed cardboard glued on there.?? It's not costly or hard to do.
Heck we sent Tang to the Moon
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Most of these are heat set solutions for the sake of production line efficiency.
Where the product poses no ignition risk, it's brilliant.
Where the product does pose such a risk, pre gummed,as we see in general use, is the only reasonable option. A solvent glue means the run spends a day in a drying room before the caps get screwed on
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it just needs more voltage
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10-17-2015, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
Also, as per the OPs testimony, the issue was discovered while he was still adjusting the measure before continuing the run. Think about it.
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OK, I'm thinking. I'm thinking. (This is really hard!)
I think I'll just take this one, 'with a few fava beans and a nice Chianti.'
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10-23-2015, 08:42 AM
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I'm not beyond buying supplies at the gunshow, but I like to evaluate the seller a bit. I'd rather go with the reputable table rather than the one with a few older cans of powder.
You just never know. Even if the seller is on the up & up, what was his teenage son doing with his friend when Dad was away?
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10-23-2015, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith
It is EXTREMELY unlikely that a primer could get a strike required for ignition when it's surrounded by nothing but powder and the bottle. It's like being in bubble wrap.
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Couldn't it be pinched in the mechanism of the powder measure?
Mike
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10-23-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortec MAX
Couldn't it be pinched in the mechanism of the powder measure?
Mike
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Yes, however, the OP stated that it is a Lee perfect measure.
All plastic except for the screws.
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it just needs more voltage
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10-23-2015, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
Most of these are heat set solutions for the sake of production line efficiency.
Where the product poses no ignition risk, it's brilliant.
Where the product does pose such a risk, pre gummed,as we see in general use, is the only reasonable option. A solvent glue means the run spends a day in a drying room before the caps get screwed on
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Not for a anaerobic type adhesive.
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10-23-2015, 11:24 AM
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Ya, all those "foil" seals on fuel additives, injector cleaners, oil, .... come to mind for me.
They obviously have solved the problem
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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?
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