Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-20-2015, 07:50 AM
Ohio AV8TOR Ohio AV8TOR is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 50
Likes: 2
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default 9mm Bullet dia

For those that have use Berry's and Xtreme I see that they are different diameter. Berry's is 0.356" and Xtreme is 0.355". 0.355" is what a 9mm should be. I was curious if you find that this changes your charge load to adjust for the change in cup pressure? Looking at the Western Handgun data they show Berry but not Xtreme. I plan on using Xtreme with Silhouette and was curious. I always work up a load but I do not have access to a chrono. Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-20-2015, 08:34 AM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,090
Likes: 528
Liked 2,011 Times in 956 Posts
Default

For about a hundred bucks, you can have a chronograph in your hands for the weekend. They are an invaluable tool for any handloader and this is the one I use.

Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph

As far as the bullet diameters you mentioned, I don't foresee a problem but I base that on my experience with .38 Supers, not the 9mm. Supers have .356" bore diameters but I have tried .357" bullets in two of mine to see if there was any accuracy improvement (there wasn't) with no problems. Cast lead bullets, even those with coatings or plating, are soft enough to conform to the .001" tighter bore.

I'm currently using Missouri Bullets' 125-grain .356" coated semi-wadcutters in my Supers and the boxes are labeled "9mm SWC" if that tells you anything.

Ed
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 10-20-2015, 09:39 AM
K-framer K-framer is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 374
Likes: 1
Liked 315 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Berry's are PLATED bullets, as are the Xtreme ones, not jacketed (and the plating is quite thin). As such, they respond much like normal cast bullets when loaded. The bullets in question are made to be 0.356" in diameter because that would be the generally "standard" size for cast used in a 0.355" barrel.

I have used thousands of Berry's 9mm bullets, with no problems whatsoever. Frankly, I applaud Berry's for making theirs 0.356" diameter.....because that is more correct than 0.355", in this circumstance. I have used the Xtreme bullets as well, also with no problems. I've never chrono'd either, so I can't comment on velocity differences between the two. But, generally speaking, PLATED bullets should always be loaded as if they were naked CAST bullets. The plated bullet makers usually include a max. velocity warning on the packaging, for this very reason.

I'd be careful, if I were you, in making blanket statements that "0.355" is what 9mm should be" (and the assumptions that follow). Technically, you are correct - the specified groove diameter IS supposed to be 0.355" on 9mm Luger barrels. However, I can say from direct experience that MANY 9mm barrels made do NOT have a groove diameter of 0.355". I have personally seen groove diameters from 0.354" on the low end, to almost 0.360". on the upper end. This is exactly why loading cast projectiles in 9mm can be quite tricky.

Since plated bullets should be loaded like cast ones, it follows that diameters should be the same (i.e., slightly oversized for the barrel groove diameter).
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 10-20-2015, 09:49 AM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is online now
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 8,389
Likes: 1,402
Liked 14,367 Times in 4,080 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio AV8TOR View Post
For those that have use Berry's and Xtreme I see that they are different diameter. Berry's is 0.356" and Xtreme is 0.355". 0.355" is what a 9mm should be. I was curious if you find that this changes your charge load to adjust for the change in cup pressure? Looking at the Western Handgun data they show Berry but not Xtreme. I plan on using Xtreme with Silhouette and was curious. I always work up a load but I do not have access to a chrono. Thanks in advance.
Welcome to the Forum

Should 9mm projectiles =.355" is not a simple answer

First it is a fair bet you are talking about the 9x19 aka 9MM Luger cartridge. Remember this chambering is over 100 years old. Many firearms were manufactured before the concept of a global standard existed.

The most common diameter for Jacketed projectiles in this cartridge is .355"

Traditionally, hard cast projectiles are sized to .356" for this cartridge. This can change if the groove diameter of the firearm in question is significantly different from the norm (not an issue with modern firearms)

Soft Swagged projectiles are commonly .356"-.357" again based on groove diameter of the firearm being loaded for. If you load for multiple firearms of various ages , the larger diameter is the better choice.

Now comes along plated projectiles. Usually these are a soft swaged cores covered in a very thin layer of copper. These should be .356"-.358" based on need.

My plated 158 TC subsonic 9x19 load is built with .358" projectiles


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-20-2015, 10:58 AM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
US Veteran
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 10,683
Liked 3,097 Times in 1,518 Posts
Wink

I generally don't use plated bullets because they tend to cost almost what jacketed bullets from Montana Gold cost. I really use mostly coated bullets now instead of jacketed or plain lead. I buy Bayou Bullets coated 135gr round nose sized .358" and use them in 9mm, 38 Super and 38 Short Colt ammo. This works very well in S&W N-frame revolvers such as the 929, 627-4 and 627-5s. I have slugged the bores of these revolvers and they seem to have the same bore diameter.
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-20-2015, 11:08 AM
Vulcan Bob's Avatar
Vulcan Bob Vulcan Bob is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: central pa
Posts: 5,323
Likes: 2,616
Liked 2,434 Times in 1,159 Posts
Default

I cast my own 9mm bullets and wound up at .358" diameter for my four 9mm pistols. I first tried .357" in all four looking for best accuracy and then tried .358", it displayed the best accuracy and zero bore leading with straight wheel weight alloy with SPG lube in all four pistols. Got lucky as all pistols, a Hi-Power, S&W-39, RIA, and S&W M&P had chambers that would accept the .358". As for the plated bullet I would buy a hundred of both diameters and see which is best for your gun's.
__________________
Stay safe people!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 10-20-2015, 01:11 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,492
Likes: 875
Liked 5,799 Times in 2,849 Posts
Default

As a note, Xtreme also has some 9mm plated bullets as large as .357 & .358" diameter..............

I almost bought the .358 but they did not have a cannelure for my double use with my 38 special loads, so I passed.

The .355 dia. plated have done well for me so far. No need to go to the larger dia. but I may try a sample some day just to see what happens in my 9mm pistols.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-20-2015, 02:28 PM
yeti's Avatar
yeti yeti is offline
US Veteran
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 2,424
Liked 2,079 Times in 882 Posts
Default

Try sample paks from multiple vendors to see what works best for your barrels.

Mine seem to prefer jacketed 124's at .355 and lead (coated) at .356

One barrel is more accurate with .358 lead, but it does well enough. I am just not willing to buy separate bullets for one gun.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-20-2015, 02:54 PM
Ohio AV8TOR Ohio AV8TOR is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 50
Likes: 2
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeti View Post
Try sample paks from multiple vendors to see what works best for your barrels.
That is my plan, I was just curious to hear from others as well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-20-2015, 03:18 PM
smokindog's Avatar
smokindog smokindog is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 1,833
Likes: 2,058
Liked 1,347 Times in 701 Posts
Default

Pay attention when you order from Xtreme. They have .355, .356, and even some .357 in their 9MM stable!

9mm
__________________
Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:42 AM
K-framer K-framer is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 374
Likes: 1
Liked 315 Times in 123 Posts
Default

One other caveat. With bullets as large as 0.357" or 0.358", in the 9mm Luger cartridge, case bulging and chambering problems are VERY common. So, if I were you, I would make several dummy cartridges with the "oversized" bullets and test the fit and chambering, before doing a run of actual loaded cartridges.

I finally gave up loading 9mm (and 9mm altogether), because I got tired of dealing with issues like these for some 9mm pistols.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:53 AM
HKB's Avatar
HKB HKB is offline
US Veteran
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: East Coast
Posts: 143
Likes: 130
Liked 125 Times in 46 Posts
Default

I use .357 lead cast bullets and have never had an issue with them. Over 9,000 rounds down range in my 92FS, still looks and shoots like the day I got it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:27 AM
Bkreutz's Avatar
Bkreutz Bkreutz is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fruitland Idaho
Posts: 5,086
Likes: 1,588
Liked 4,875 Times in 2,023 Posts
Default

I normally use .355 bullets, .356 doesn't get me any more accuracy and are normally only available in the heavier weights (147 and up). I use hollow base bullets in 9 major so the base deforms and seals quite well. .357 and .358 are listed as 38 super and super comp bullets and I have friends that use them in that caliber.

9mm is actually 0.35433070866 inch
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:07 AM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 27,968
Likes: 35,447
Liked 25,385 Times in 12,155 Posts
Default Compare the the .38 special...

.357" is the bullet size for a .38 and jacketed bullets are usally sold this way. Lead bullets are size 1 or 2 thousandths over that because they will be squeezed down to the size of the barrel in the forcing cone and you don't want gas escaping around the bullet.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-23-2015, 03:28 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 27,968
Likes: 35,447
Liked 25,385 Times in 12,155 Posts
Default Man, you need....

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-framer View Post
One other caveat. With bullets as large as 0.357" or 0.358", in the 9mm Luger cartridge, case bulging and chambering problems are VERY common. So, if I were you, I would make several dummy cartridges with the "oversized" bullets and test the fit and chambering, before doing a run of actual loaded cartridges.

I finally gave up loading 9mm (and 9mm altogether), because I got tired of dealing with issues like these for some 9mm pistols.
You need some different pistols. I've never had a lick of trouble and I load all manner of nines. I did stay away from anything with a reputation for being hard on brass, though, because I knew I would want to reload it. Like 10mm or older Glocks.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Last edited by rwsmith; 10-23-2015 at 11:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-23-2015, 05:27 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 20,747
Likes: 9,413
Liked 13,104 Times in 5,959 Posts
Default

SAAMI spec for a Jacketed 9mm is 3.555 (-.0030)

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc...Luger%20+P.pdf

Plated bullets like Berrys will vary even between bullets in the same box.

Hornady makes theirs at .356 (with one at .357)

MBC sizes their lead to .356

The .001" is not going to change much in loading or pressure,
__________________
For office use only
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:14 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,161
Likes: 20
Liked 18,186 Times in 9,584 Posts
Default

The SAAMI spec bullet diameter for the 9x19mm is 0.3555"-0.003", i.e., 0.3525 - 0.3555"

The SAAMI spec groove diameter is 0.355" + 0.004", i.e., 0.355" - 0.359"

The answer to your question depends on your specific gun, as we do not know its exact bore diameter. I have fired many lead bullets having a 0.357" diameter from the 9mm with good performance. I seriously doubt you will see any discernible difference between 0.355" and 0.356" bullets and you will have to learn that for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:13 AM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 4
Liked 2,612 Times in 1,346 Posts
Default

Jacketed bullets are quite forgiving; shoot whatever diameter is recommended. They should work fine.

Plated? I've had little experience with these and make no recommendations, but assume they are similar to plain cast bullets.

Cast bullets... in the 9mm, use the largest diameter bullet that will freely chamber. This will vary between .357" and .359". I use .358" bullets in a Beretta, Sig, and a Walther P1. Outside diameter at taper-crimped case mouth of a loaded cartridge measures about .380"; that's a SAAMI maximum. Loads don't bulge brass (Winchester, anyway) and cartridges feed reliably with overall perfect functioning in my guns. However, such rounds
may not work well in H&Ks, Glocks, and maybe some others.

A slightly tighter taper crimp than I've recommended may be worth experimenting with as long as it does not reduce bullet size to the point of inaccuracy.

With regard to "freely chambering", don't forget overall cartridge length. As long as there is no interference with smooth and reliable chambering, seat bullets out to maximum magazine length.

In a search for best accuracy over the years, many different cast bullet designs have been tried, almost all of which were hand cast. To date, the best bullet I've found is cast from the obsolete Lyman #358212 mould - a 148-150 grain (wheelweight alloy) round nose design intended for the .38 Special . Sized to .358", functioning is reliable and accuracy is good, perhaps because of plenty of bullet bearing surface.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-25-2015, 01:54 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,492
Likes: 875
Liked 5,799 Times in 2,849 Posts
Default

I have ordered the 147gr plated from Xtreme bullts and looked at their 165gr plated bullets.
These heavy weights have a .356" diameter along with the longer length.

After doing some research, some have used this bullet in their 9mm's for specialty shooting but I also learned that it was really made to be used with the 9mm Largo.
The long large dia. bullet when seated will stretch the short standard 9mm case at the base area due to case thickness and the bullets dia....
so I passed with the Biggest bullet, since the smaller 147gr was a tack driver.
Tight groups.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-25-2015, 03:00 PM
smokindog's Avatar
smokindog smokindog is offline
Member
9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia 9mm Bullet dia  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 1,833
Likes: 2,058
Liked 1,347 Times in 701 Posts
Default

Their 147gr 9mm come in both .356 and .357. I ordered some 357 thinking I ordered 356. Haven't tried them yet but in another thread I was told not to worry! Hope that's right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
I have ordered the 147gr plated from Xtreme bullts and looked at their 165gr plated bullets.
These heavy weights have a .356" diameter along with the longer length.

After doing some research, some have used this bullet in their 9mm's for specialty shooting but I also learned that it was really made to be used with the 9mm Largo.
The long large dia. bullet when seated will stretch the short standard 9mm case at the base area due to case thickness and the bullets dia....
so I passed with the Biggest bullet, since the smaller 147gr was a tack driver.
Tight groups.
__________________
Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Published bullet weight vs. actual bullet weight safearm Reloading 29 03-26-2013 05:45 AM
..................... Collects S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 21 01-12-2013 05:26 AM
oal with bullet ? rebs081 Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 27 10-10-2012 10:18 PM
A online Cast Bullet Book from Ingot to Target. A cast bullet Guide Rule3 Reloading 2 09-19-2011 04:26 AM
Best .40 bullet Buckey08 Reloading 4 03-10-2011 11:16 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:37 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)