I am reloading 38special for my smith model 19. I am loading for target shooting. I started with new star line brass and Mag tec 158 grain round nose bullets over 3.4 grains of hp38. My problem comes when I seat the bullet it shaves part of the lead around the rim of the case. I tried adjusting the flare but nothing seems to work. The bullets all chamber ok with no jams or hang ups. Is this normal using lead bullets? Should I try plated or jacketed? Any advice would be appreciated.

try more flare

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NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC

First check that you have the round nose punch in your seater die.

Then flare a case, take it out of the machine and set a bullet on it. Looking from the top, there should be a small ring of flared case showing around the bullet base. Adjust as needed.
When seating, hold the bullet vertically inside the flare ring...watch your fingers!

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Science plus Art

Reduce the amount you crimp.

When to much crimp it will tighten up the case on the bullet before it's fully seated shaving lead just like this.

You may want to try crimping as a separate step.

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Foster Positivity.

Is the case mouth actually belling when you go to flare it?

Crimp would also be my guess. If it's not too much crimp, your die may be adjusted so that the crimp process starts two early in the cycle. Readjust your dies per factory instructions and try again.
Bottom line is that cast 158 gr heads have been loaded into the straight walled 38 spl cases by the trillions over the years. No need to change components.

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Dave

Size cast measure in ID then measure Od of said bullet. If you are flaring case and still having shaved lead then bullet fit may be the problem but I would rather have more case tension less.

Something isn't right if you can't get the case mouth to flare? Do you have the die set correctly to start with as far as depth? Sooner or later you should get flare or extreme flaring. Check for proper set up of die in press for flaring step.
Karl

I take it that the lead is shaving up near the ogive of the bullet, not at the base. The flare would be an issue if it was shaving lead of the base as the bullet was seated.

If it's shaving off further up the bullet, it probably is the crimp. I looked at that bullet and there does not appear to be much of a crimp groove, if any.

Consider that the bullet is still moving as the crimp is closing. If there is little or no groove to accommodate the case mouth as it crimps in it will shave the bullet.

The seat and crimp in separate steps is a good suggestion, see if that clears it up. A lot of reloaders will seat and crimp in separate steps as a matter of habit.

Here's the Magtech I think you are using, and a cast 158 gr SWC where you can see a substantial crimp groove is provided.

Of course with no crimp groove, you can't give it much of a crimp. You may not shave lead, but you'll still deform the bullet. When there's no crimp groove present I usually use a taper crimp. Oh Boy! Something else to buy!

Attached Images

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Some dies these days use a stepped expander. The actual flaring part is another 2/32" or so past this step. If your die has a threaded expander plug, remove it and look closely for this step. An unflared case from this type of expander die will easily shave a sliver of lead.

So I was curious about this. Xtreme plated bullets have a VERY slight cannelure. I've been using a medium roll crimp anyway. Not enough to crack the plating, but not a light roll crimp either.

To my way of thinking this will make a bit of a ring-shaped indent around the bullet, but I don't see where this is a problem. I figured it would be little or no different than a factory cannelure - which is a ring-shaped indent around the bullet.

So what am I missing here? What is the issue with sort of "putting your own cannelure" in the bullet by giving the case a medium or even heavy roll crimp?

I use the Mag-Tech 158gr LRN without any problems.

Adjust your die to flare your case to where you can actually see it, don't be skimpy about it, this bullet is soft and needs room to slide into the case.

I use a OAL of 1.55" with this bullet design.... it is not a WC that can get away with just 1.48" of OAL and still work.

Your crimping die needs to be adjusted to where it crimps in the last .04" of the final movement. If you mark you base unit and your die........ a light to heavy crimp on my RCBS unit will only measure 3/4 of an inch, with the thread movements.

I have used a light to heavy crimp with this bullet with over eight powders and it has worked well for me in snubs to 6" barrels, from 525 fps to 1024 fps.

Good luck getting those dies set correctly.

The issue is that a heavy crimp closes the neck down while the bullet is still being seated causing it to shave lead.

My lesson was with 45ACP. Using Berry's 230gr plated I tried to crimp the neck from .471 down to .469 I started getting rounds with coating and lead above the rim and fail to feed because of it.

Reduced my crimp and never have the issue anymore.

The press applies significant leverage. It doesn't take much to roll the neck in. Back off your die and use a light touch for crimp.

The case belling die does 2 functions. 1. It expands the ID of the sized case to accept the bullet and it flares the case mouth to allow the bullet to enter the case without crushing the case or shaving the bullet. As others have mentioned, you need to add enough bell to avoid shaving the bullet.

I agree with the previous posts that suggest that the shaving is a result of the the roll crimp being to heavy. You may also want to measure several of you cases to see the variants in case length. 38 specials cases can vary from 1.145 to 1.155 in length.
The longer cases will shave more lead when the crimping edge in the die begins to contact the case mouth. Good and consistent roll crimps require cases of the same length. Sort your brass or try trimming them.

I guess I should have mentioned I'm crimping in a separate step with the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

The seat-and-crimp-in-one-step idea doesn't make sense to me. Trying to crimp the case while at the same time still pushing the bullet further into the case just seems like a recipe for frustration. Maybe less so with a taper crimp, but certainly with a roll crimp.

So, then, if done as a separate step, what is the problem with roll crimping bullets with no cannelure - or is there even a problem with doing that?

I think this will solve your problem. I had the same problem with 45 acp LRN. Seater/crimp dies can sometimes be hard to adjust. I just do them in separate operations to avoid the hassle. I use an adjustable crimp die. I'm not a big fan of seating and crimping at the same time.

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That's just somebody talkin.

When you get everything ironed out..................
your load should look close to this one. ( medium crimp )

If all your cases are of the same brand, mileage, and length it might work fine. But if case length or thickness varies at all then the cannelure you're creating will vary. Variation in that will cause variation in the tightness of the crimp and pressures, and hence accuracy. Now it may not be enough to notice in most cases given all the other variables, but the theory is sound.

If there's no crimp groove I always use a taper crimp.

Check to see that you have just enough flare to let the bullet start into the case.
Start the bullet into the case mouth just as straight as you can possibly line it up. Cast lead , started with a lean to the right, left, forward or to the back will dig in and shave. Jacketed bullets are harder and will tolerate more "lean".
Seat the bullet in one step, with no crimp being applied. Next adjust the die to crimp only and crimp in a separate step.
Lead bullets are soft and must be seated and crimped carefully. Getting them started into the case so they will be straight helps a whole bunch.
Gary

If adjusting the flare doesn't work, your Shell Plate might not be lining up correctly or your Dies may be askew. Your shell plate might also have excessive wobble (looseness) and allow cases to not line up with the dies correctly. Check press for alignment and call the manufacturer for suggestions. NEW and UNFiRED Starline Brass is a little tight until it's fired once - at least thats been my experience. Are you using oversized bullets?? I load 158 grain RNL and also use Titegroup powder but my diameter bullets are .357". They also come in .358" which might be adding to your dilemma. Check with calipers to confirm.

Flare should be just enough to let a bullet sit atop the case without tipping over. Any more overworks the brass & will do zero to prevent shaving.

Cue the oldtimers that reloaded 60 brazillion round without a LFCD... Sure, and cars did fine with three on the tree, too. Non cannellured lead bullets is where the LFCD shines.

I had the same problem and solved it by backing out the seating die till it just about removed the flare and used the LFCD to finish the job. If you start seeing lots of brass slivers you need to either reduce the flare or take out more of the flare with the seating die.

Dies aren't set & forget. I need to adjust mine any time I change bullet or headstamp.

Some good info here.

The old timers get cranky when you mention the LFCD so I avoid it. But now that you've said it there's no point in tip toeing around it.

I use one for all of my different cartridges. They're cheap and they work. I just use my SC die to seat. I crimp with a LFCD.

Because I use range brass with every imaginable stamp and length the SC die doesn't work real well.

If a person were to trim their brass and use one brand I'm sure the regular SC die could handle the job just fine but I don't.

If you really want to see the difference in range brass just run it through a LFCD. The friction and handle pressure will tell you range brass is all over the board in size.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I'll deburr and slightly chamfer all new brass before I load it the first time.

Make sure You are using the correct diameter Bullet,Even though the Bullets may be the same caliber They could be a difference size. For instance a 45 cal.for a 1911 is .452 while a 45 cal.for a 45 long Colt is .454 even though they are both 45 cal. Bullets.