My friend bluetopper shot this on the first try last Friday. We didn't clock it but the book said 780 for auto & 830 for 6 inch wheel gun. They are Speer HBWCS .357 seated flush & slight roll crimp with Winchester nickel cases & cci primer with 3.7 Unique with a factory stock S&W 14-3 six inch. Easy 1 1/2 10 shot group benched @ 25 yards.

Attached Images

DSC04995.jpg (59.0 KB, 187 views)

nice group, but an odd choice for a target powder????

I just opened a four pound jug. I gotta do something with it. I am going by this old chart I think a guy named Waters tested with. Actually the chart said 830 fps but the bullet shoots ok. Will try at 50 yards later . I loaded these for my Colt NM that said 780 but I haven't shot it yet. Maybe this weekend.

Attached Images

38 RELOAD 001.jpg (80.3 KB, 90 views)

I'm not that surprised Speer's swaged lead bullets did so well with Unique.

I think Unique has a special relation with swaged bullets

My favorite loads are with the Hornady lead (swaged) 158 semi-wadcutters and the max charge weights of Unique, in both 38 special (Model 67) and 357 (Model 686).



In Hornady's manual 38 special section, they say their best results were with Bullseye and Unique and their test weapon was a Model 15. They list 3.5 grains (max) for their 148 HBWC's with a velocity of 750 fps.

I've found 800 fps to work best - which would likely agree with your load.
I don't know why, but now that I think about it, I haven't tried Unique with the HBWC's.

It looks like I have a new combination to try!!!

[ignore the flier ---- I do]

__________________
I'd like to agree with you BUT

I use the same formula in 38 cases or 3.9 grains in a .357 case. It works great. It's a little dirty but just as good a for accuracy as anything else.

800 FPS is typically where wadcutters will perform their best for accuracy.

Just more examples of how well "youthful" eyes are able to shoot. Don't confuse the issue by including load data.

__________________
S&WHF 366

I have used light loads of Unique in .38 Special LWC loads, but I got a lot of unburned powder. I upped my charges to a mid-level load and got much better burn and seemed more consistent...

Sorry Engineer...I failed to mention on this reply that the target was shot with a 2x scope. ( I do mention I use scopes in my range reports)
I do most of my load development with a scope or at least a reddot, honkered down on sandbags.

I need my reloads to shoot groups like shown in the picture for me to even stay on the paper without a scope or freehanded.

So its not "youthfull eyes" in my case - its really sort of cheating!

Attached Images

DSC01035 (800x600).jpg (269.5 KB, 54 views)

__________________
I'd like to agree with you BUT

Witness so it never happen. I know the eagle eye who shot this, he is good, young eyes naaah but the man can shoot his pistols.

I'd get some Bullseye or Titegroup or similar powders for target loads. Unique is very good, but I don't think anything is as consistent than the specialized target powders.

You can't get much better than the Speer HBWC and the Hornadys are about as good.

What range were these shot? In my case it's more the shooter than the quality of ammo.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

When I was working on loads for PPC, I found that 3.0 gr-3.2 gr of unique was as good or better than 2.3 gr of Bullseye with 148 gr LWC's. I settled on the B.E. load as Unique doesn't meter very well at such light loading, for me at least.

__________________
Thugs that comply don’t die!

Still good groups even if you are cheating!

__________________
S&WHF 366

Over the years I have tried a lot of powders for light target loads in 38 Special. I have used red dot , green dot , BE , unique 700X and others. They all shot very well in my Pythons , Diamond Backs and 686 4" and 6"!

I loaded it in 357 brass and never saw any gain and with the 38 brass being cheap I stay with it. The Speer HBWC's just seem to shoot as long as you don't try to soup them up to much.

With all of these powders a good crimp was required to avoid unburned powder. Trying different small pistol primers both standard and magnum showed that they all shoot great if you juggle the charge a little!

Rw

Bluetopper's target and mine were shot at 25 yards.

__________________
I'd like to agree with you BUT

For handgun load development in my experience and in my opinion you need to shoot at a minimum of 25 yards to tell a discernable difference in any changes you might want to make in powder, amounts of charges, and bullets.
Any closer and the human factor plays way too much in the equation.

__________________
Where we go one, we go all

I'm still a fan of 231 for any kind of target load, regardless of the caliber. I've used it for 32 Long, 38, 44 Spec, 45 acp, and now 9mm and .380.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Did the Unique meter OK for you ?? The last time I used Unique, I remember having some problems with metering consistently out of my Dillon dump.

BTW great group, bluetopper / 4barrel & forestwin !!

I don't think Unique's flakes are any larger than Red Dot, Green Dot, American Select, e3, etc,... and it meters no worse. Yet I keep reading on forums how poor Unique meters and nothing of the sort from the other powders I mentioned.

__________________
Where we go one, we go all

I wouldn't think Unique to be an odd choice for someone looking for exceptional accuracy. While I just hate the metering properties of Unique I've also found that in almost every caliber I've used it with it will routinely produce ammunition that is best described as a "tack driver". Because of this I always have 2 or 3 boxes loaded with Unique in my stash for those occasions when I'm in the mood for doing some careful slow fire shooting.

BTW, because it meters so much better and because of some recent results at 50 yards while trying out my 2 1/2 inch 19-3 at long range I'm thinking that Vihtavouri 3N37 may be a good metering alternate to Unique. If I can happen on a few more pounds of this powder locally I plan on trying it out in 45 ACP and 40 S&W and see if it gives similar results to the 38 special load that shoots so darned well in that model 19 and my model 67.

It meters slightly better in my Hornady LNL measure, than it did from my RCBS measure. But light loads/charges seem to be less consistent than heavier charges from both.
Overall, it is okay. I still use it for a bunch of loads. But I am in the process of trying to duplicate my Unique loads with Universal and WSF. So far, so good. When I run out of Unique (about 4 lbs left), I'm done with it.

__________________
Thugs that comply don’t die!

Nothing wrong with that, if you're happy/I'm happy.

I've just found the unique:
Doesn't do very well (burn) in lower case capacity loads or low pressure loads, inconsistent burn ='s inconsistent accuracy.
Is position sensitive, again lower case capacity/more room to move.

While the 357 case/hbwc combo lends itself better to full case capacity & less movement of the powder (that position thing). Unique would be one of my last choices for a light target load. I've used unique in the past (since the 80's) & still use it to this day, have around #3 laying around. It has it's place but not for me when it comes to low volume target loads.

As far as metering, other powders do better/less bridging. +/- .2gr of unique is the norm for most reloaders.

As far as flake size/volume:
Powders like greeddot, american select, international clays take up 18% more case capacity the unique for the same charge weight. And powders like reddot and clays take up 25% more case capacity than unique for the same charge weight.

For some odd reason there isn't allot of bullseye shooters using unique for their "pet" loads. And believe me, it has nothing to do with cost. When shooters have to travel xxxx miles, pay $$$$ for food/lodging/entry fees/etc to go to the show (state and national shoots). They're not worried about getting 2xxx loads per pound compared to 3xxx loads per pound. It's the 10-ring & x count.

For hunting, there's better powders that deliver better results (accuracy/velocity). Heck powders like 296 rule the revolver silhouette world.

Universal clays will easily do anything that unique can do & do it better. It's less position sensitive, meters better, has 6+% more case capacity for the same weight load and burns a heck of a lot cleaner.

For medium burn powders (like unique) I've switched over to power pistol. It meters better, is less position sensitive, burns cleaner & out performs unique with most caliber/bullet combo's. And the power pistol really shines with heaver bullets in most calibers.

I'm not bashing unique, it's just that there are so many newer powders out there in the last 100+ years that meter better, are less position sensitive, and are better choices for those "tack driving" loads you're talking about.

Anyway, that's why I found it an odd choice for a "target powder".

Scooter123,
Perhaps you could share some of your pet "tack driving" loads using unique powder. I plan on testing 38spl/357 loads this next year have 10+ different bullets to test using 7 different powder looking for target loads, should prove interesting. Did the same thing last year playing with the same 7 powders and only 5 different bullets in a beater 44mag. Was looking for 1 1/2" accuracy @ 25yds. Unique was 1 of those powders in those tests. At the end of the testing I came up with several loads that met that criteria.



Of those 13 targets/these loads all had 5 or 6 shots of the 6-shot group touching and were easily 1 1/2" or less:
clays ='s 4
international clays ='s 4
american select ='s 3
bullseye ='s 1
trailboss ='s 1

Unique did manage to produce a couple 1 1/2" group with those 5 different bullets, but after re-testing those loads several different times. They would never produce a group with more than 3 bullets touching.

Now I get to hear about the "keith" bullet/testing/unique powder use that's 100years old. And I get to posts pic's like these of those "keith" bullets.

Why not 6 or twelve? Revolver?
Just curious

__________________
I'd like to agree with you BUT

Habit I got into years ago. I got to learn what little I know from some bullseye shooters. 5 shots wheel gun or auto. Target scores 100. 10 shots. You need to shoot with a person better than yourself if you wish to improve. I do anyway.

Found that at a yard sale did ye.