Titegroup Question...

[roscoepc]

While cruising the new Cabela's and then going to the Bass Pro close by, I heard some kind'a disturbing info about the Titegroup I'm using to reload for my 500...

I was mainly looking for Large Rifle Magnum primers and during the discussion with the guy's at Bass Pro the subject of the powder I used came up. When they found out I was using Titegroup they immediately asked if I was using a "filler". I said no and that's when they got REALLY excited, telling me about a guy that blew up a 500 using Titegroup!! I asked how much powder he was using and it was 17gr, the bullet size was never mentioned. Naturally S&W and Hodgden both supposedly denied responsibility but that was not really my question to them. I asked how, if he had the correct charge, just how did this happen because Titegroup is not a "directional" powder; it doesn't have to be in contact with the primer to ignite. They told me that if the powder is laying flat it changes how the burn rate is for the powder and can jack the pressure up....

I'm like,, REALLY??? Are you sure he didn't throw a double charge in there??? They said no way, it was how the powder was positioned in the case......

I'm not the brightest bulb in the box but I'm not the dimmest one either... I've done a TON of reading/research on powders before deciding on using Titegroup because it fit's the performance parameters I'm wanting. Hogdgen doesn't have any recommendations as far as using a filler and as far as I'm concerned, I'll not be using any until they do..

In say, the 17gr of Titegroup mentioned, there is a certain amount of pressure produced when the powder is ignited.. How would the position of the powder in the case affect the pressure produced?? That is the question I'm asking you guy's! How could the pressure increase enough without a double throw of powder because I'm thinking that what happened: A double throw!!!

Thoughts anyone??? And Please, Let's stick to the one powder mentioned: Titegroup! Less confusion that way!!!

Many Thanks!!

[treedoc1]

Another boring day for the retail clock watchers, stories repeated often enough take on an aura of legitimacy for the feeble minded.

[gaijin]

While I would have serious doubts on the gunshop commandos claims, I would probably not use Titegroup for a large case, magnum pistol round.
I would be concerned about the ability to double/triple charge a round (granted, ones head would need to be somewhere else).
I stick with powders that will overflow the case in moderate to full house loads in magnum pistol calibers.

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by treedoc1

Another boring day for the retail clock watchers, stories repeated often enough take on an aura of legitimacy for the feeble minded.

I guess there's a reason their working at Bass Pro, eh??!!!!

[Rule3]

Titegroup or any very fast powder is a poor choice for the 500 SW magnum or any magnum load for that matter.

Just because there is data for it does not mean it is good

Fillers are a topic that come up from time to time and some in the old days used it. There are no manuals (current) that I know of that recommend a filler,

Use a slower powder in your 500!

[venomballistics]

Titegroup has been the focus of similar drama in a few Internet rants about blown guns.
Usually it's a magnum cartridge and the whole powder position thing comes up.
It may actually have legs, but it has never been proven.

This urban legend aside, there are ample reasons why this is a stupid powder choice in these cases.
It is at its best in the autos ... 380 9mm 40 45 acp ...
These are short, allowing for a better view of potential double charges.
In revolver cartridges, you are hard pressed to get a good look at the level of the powder way down in the bottom of these cases.
You are just better off with a powder like unique, power pistol, or cfe pistol in these cases.

[fredj338]

No ono ever kb a gun with a correct load of uber fast powder. It's a detonation theory that goes back to bullseye & 148gr wc in the 38sp. It's never been lab duplicated to my knowledge. What usually happens is a double or triple charge going un seen in the large case. I wouldn't use TG for a 500 if it were given to me for free, partly for that reason. I like powders that fill the case at least 1/2 way. In a 500, it would need to be something like 2400, which is pretty hard to come by. Even unique is a better bet than TG in the 500.

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by fredj338

No ono ever kb a gun with a correct load of uber fast powder. It's a detonation theory that goes back to bullseye & we in the 38sp. It's never been lab duplicated to my knowledge. What usually happens is a double or triple charge going un seen in the large case. I wouldn't use TG for a 500 if it were given to me for free, partly for that reason. I like powders that fill the case 1/2 way. In a 500, it would need to be something like 2400, which is pretty hard to come by.

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

IMR 4227
this has been one of the more available propellants through the crunch as many people seem to thumb their noses at it.
See what this one can do for you.
If at all similar to the results gained from the 460, you will be quite pleased.

[Beemer-mark]

I never loaded for a cartridge like the 500 so I can't really offer too much advice. None of my reloading manuals recommend a filler for your cartridge. The again none of them have a load for TG. That seems an awful fast powder for a really big case.

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

IMR 4227
this has been one of the more available propellants through the crunch as many people seem to thumb their noses at it.
See what this one can do for you.
If at all similar to the results gained from the 460, you will be quite pleased.

I'll check into it, Thanks!!

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by Beemer-mark

I never loaded for a cartridge like the 500 so I can't really offer too much advice. None of my reloading manuals recommend a filler for your cartridge. The again none of them have a load for TG. That seems an awful fast powder for a really big case.

A link to Hodgdens you might like: Reloading for Beginners | Hodgdon Reloading

Check out the Reloading Data Center on the bottom left of the page......

[Carrier]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

I'm the same as you. I bought an 8lb jug because powder is so hit and miss where I'm at and I'm also fairly new to reloading. Then I started hearing all the stories of nuclear bombs being let off because of it. Getting ready to load some 38 special and 9mm with it as I shoot with a guy at the range that uses it in just about everything he has up to 44 magnum.
He said it measures better than most other powders but you have to be attentive when loading with it. He shoots there a lot and has been using it for several years and if there had been an issue he would say so.

[roscoepc]

When I load I do it in lot's of 50. When I prime, I do it in lot's of 10 for the 50 I want loaded.. When I throw powder, I throw 12.0gr + 0.2gr, I measure EVERY TIME, then pour into the primed casing, set the bullet into the case and lock it with the press.

I do NOT walk away from a case that I've just poured powder into!!!

Period!!!!

It just don't happen......

To summarize, when I pour the powder, I'm loading lot's of One!!!!!!

[John R]

More folk lore.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

I thought I did??

Filler is a a old wives tale or old reloaders trick.

It does nothing other than keep the powder pushed down towards the primer so supposedly it ignites better, Some powders are position sensitive, Regardless it is a lame thing to do to try and use the wrong powder.

Do a search on it. Use popcorn so you can have a snack or use rice or wheat for puffed cereal.

[O.G.]

Dear Roscoepc !
My answer to your question is phisical-chemical , the total burn time of a charge is affected by the burn-rate and the distance the flame has to travel in the material (you have to multiply the two) , the prsure-peak timeing is built relatively to the answer to the mentiond equation and the prsure-peak-fortitude is affected by it too and the surface-erea and the volume of the chamber (all 3 variables) .
So if the surface erea ignited is larger in one case - no doubt the presure-peak will be differnt ! .
So if the powder is filling the cartridge totally , the surface-erea ignited is the cut-width-erea of the cartridge, and if the powder is less in volume than it can get a lot bigger ignition-surface (cut-length-erea) of the cartridge .
To my humble opinion, if you will use a solid filler on top of the powder charge you will eliminate the possibility of higher presure-peak.
Good luck
O.g.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

Any medium burner would work better than TG in any magnum case. Power pistol would be just one example. Regardless of how careful you are, it's just hard to see if you have just a single charge of TG in a large case. TG is at its best for light loads, something I wouldn't buy a 500 for.
I've used fillers for handgun powder in large cases like 45-70, but for really light loads. Using fillers for loads already at or near max, not a good idea. You are effectively compressing the powder.
Again, detonation theory of small charges of fast powder lying flat in the case & the primer spark abnormally igniting or detonating the powder has never been lab proven to my knowledge. Guys that double charge their magnums with TG will claim it just couldn't have happened, but I'm 99.9% sure that is exactly what is happening when the gun goes KB.

[chief38]

I have been using TG for .38 Special and .45 ACP for many years with excellent results and never any problems.

Behind a catastrophic gun even like the OP posted, I would bet there is much more to that story that anyone here is aware of. Too much powder, too little powder, mixed or contaminated powder - who knows! Many times these stories are a bunch of BS and made as they go deals. Never use ANY POWDER or ANY COMPONENT for something that it isn't recommended by the Manufacturer for - is my general rule. Paying attention while reloading is of the utmost importance and something that must be constantly reinforced and practiced - especially as we seasoned re-loaders tend to get complacent with over the years.

[stu1ritter]

Hornady has published load data for the 500 S&W Magnum and Titegroup covering bullets from 325 gr right on up to 500 gr and pressures ranging from 22.500 psi on right up to 50,700 psi with loads ranging from 11 gr of powder right on up to 20 grains. Sounds safe to me.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by stu1ritter

Hornady has published load data for the 500 S&W Magnum and Titegroup covering bullets from 325 gr right on up to 500 gr and pressures ranging from 22.500 psi on right up to 50,700 psi with loads ranging from 11 gr of powder right on up to 20 grains. Sounds safe to me.

OK, look at the Hodgdon data for a 500 gr bullet

13.0 gr =40,200 psi

15.0gr=50,000 psi

Gain in velocity is barely 100 fps

So if the op wants to try and see 15 grs of powder in a 500 SW case, they more power to him.

There is just not much margin for error or wiggle room using a fast powder, 2 more grains ups the pressure by 10,000 psi!!

Max psi is 60,000 psi

Its a 500 magnum not a 38 special!

[alwslate]

Titegroup is promoted by Hodgdon as a powder that is not position
sensitive and so is well suited to light loads in large cases. One of
the reasons for this is that Titegroup is easily ignited, making the
position of the powder within the case largely irrelevant to the
ballistics. It would seem that if Hodgdon publishes loads for Titegroup
for a particular cartridge then those loads are safe to use as published.

[Lou_the_welder]

I would not have loaded a small pistol powder for a magnum one. Fill the powder almost all the way up on whatever you use (granted correct weight powder to weight bullet). I run mine through a progressive. I got into the habit of watching the powder level even on all the cases. I like 2400. If i couldnt buy some, i would load something else then come back to it when the powder became available. I do use titegroup. I like the powder. I use it on anything 38 down.
I understand powder sometimes isnt available.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by alwslate

Titegroup is promoted by Hodgdon as a powder that is not position
sensitive and so is well suited to light loads in large cases. One of
the reasons for this is that Titegroup is easily ignited, making the
position of the powder within the case largely irrelevant to the
ballistics. It would seem that if Hodgdon publishes loads for Titegroup
for a particular cartridge then those loads are safe to use as published.

It is not a question so much as being safe it is more a matter of what powder is best for the job at hand, Sure you can find most any powder listed for all kinds of calibers but what is the better choice?? It was also about filler or stuffing Dacron in the case which is not needed nor a common best practice.

There are many many powders out there why not use one that is more suitable to the job?

Generally a super fast powder is not considered a Magnum powder.

The reloader can use whatever the heck they want.

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by Rule3

It is not a question so much as being safe it is more a matter of what powder is best for the job at hand, Sure you can find most any powder listed for all kinds of calibers but what is the better choice?? It was also about filler or stuffing Dacron in the case which is not needed nor a common best practice.

There are many many powders out there why not use one that is more suitable to the job?

Generally a super fast powder is not considered a Magnum powder.

The reloader can use whatever the heck they want.

yes, just as one might invest in a Ferrari 458 Italia and replace its engine with one from a Toyota Yaris .....
fast burn in magnums is kinda like this.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

yes, just as one might invest in a Ferrari 458 Italia and replace its engine with one from a Toyota Yaris .....
fast burn in magnums is kinda like this.

Less maintenance though and a lot cheaper to run.

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by Rule3

Less maintenance though and a lot cheaper to run.

yes, though it would also eliminate its design intent of glorious excess.

[rwsmith]

You can do that tip up the barrel thing between each shot, and it might get you a big more consistency between shots, but those powders are formulated to be easy to light and fast burning so the powder doesn't burn like a fuse even spread along the bottom of the case. And if you tip up the barrel between shots the amount of safety if will give you is zero. 99.9% chance problems are caused by overloads or underloads that cause a squib.

The tiny amount of powder in a Titegroup load is almost guaranteed to not touch the primer. But it still works.

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

The reason some people use filler is to take care of possible powder position sensitivity issues, to keep the powder up against the primer. However, using filler is a bad idea. The loads were developed WITHOUT any filler. Adding filler effectively reduces case capacity and adds mass that will be sent down the barrel, both of which raises pressure. Titegroup is supposed to be position insensitive, so even if it wasn't a bad idea, I doubt it would serve much purpose.

The old Bullseye detonation stories are most likely a combination of double charging cases and people letting their dies get gummed up with wax lube and seating the bullets too deep. No one has ever been able to prove that detonation has actually happened.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

yes, though it would also eliminate its design intent of glorious excess.

Just fill it up with Ethyl please or Sunoco 260!

Magnum petrol.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by stu1ritter

Hornady has published load data for the 500 S&W Magnum and Titegroup covering bullets from 325 gr right on up to 500 gr and pressures ranging from 22.500 psi on right up to 50,700 psi with loads ranging from 11 gr of powder right on up to 20 grains. Sounds safe to me.

Yep, until you drop that double charge & can't visually verify it. 11gr would just about cover the bottom of the case, 22gr, yes you could see it, iff you look or measure with a dowel. If you do all that, sure use TG. To this day I don't get TG, but especially don't get it in magnum rounds.

[Nevada Ed]

I used Bullseye in 12 Ga. trap loads......!!

Blue Dot with Magnum Steel pellet duck & goose loads...!!

What's the big thing with TG in pistol loads ??

You just have to know what is going on..............!!

Get er done.

[M1A]

I have used Titegroup for many years and many, many, thousands of .45 colt, .44 spl, and .44mag. I don't watch TV or read a book while I reload on a Dillon 450. I do load slow and methodical.
I have a lot of experience with the powder, and it does what Hodgon says it does.

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by Rule3

OK, look at the Hodgdon data for a 500 gr bullet

13.0 gr =40,200 psi

15.0gr=50,000 psi

Gain in velocity is barely 100 fps

So if the op wants to try and see 15 grs of powder in a 500 SW case, they more power to him.

There is just not much margin for error or wiggle room using a fast powder, 2 more grains ups the pressure by 10,000 psi!!

Max psi is 60,000 psi

Its a 500 magnum not a 38 special!

You're assuming I'm loading a 500gr bullet.. I'm not.. Check the info for the 350gr bullet. The minimum is 11.ogr producing 1032fps and 23,100lbs of pressure.. The max charge is 18.5gr producing 1461fps and 50,000lbs of pressure..

I want about 1100fps out of the rounds I load so I'm using 12.0-12.2gr for my charge and the weight is measured EVERY time I throw powder on a digital scale that I recalibrate about every 15-25 rounds I throw. After I set the funnel and powder tray down I immediately pick up the charged casing, a bullet, then seat the bullet and press the bullet..

Every time.... No exceptions...

That way I don't have to actually see the powder level because I have just measured it!

And with the charge size being from 11.0-18.5, loading at 12.0gr gives me a nice "fudge factor", well away from the max charge!!

If I run some 500 gr rounds through her, they will most likely be store bought Hornady XTP's like I've got right now for those pesky pink elephant's that keep raiding my apple tree's!!!

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by fredj338

Yep, until you drop that double charge & can't visually verify it. 11gr would just about cover the bottom of the case, 22gr, yes you could see it, iff you look or measure with a dowel. If you do all that, sure use TG. To this day I don't get TG, but especially don't get it in magnum rounds.

If you read Post #34, you'll find there is no way I'm gonna throw a double charge IF I FOLLOW THE LOADING PROCEEDURES I'VE SET UP FOR MYSELF!!!!

And I always do and I always will!!!!

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

If you read Post #34, you'll find there is no way I'm gonna throw a double charge IF I FOLLOW THE LOADING PROCEEDURES I'VE SET UP FOR MYSELF!!!!

And I always do and I always will!!!!

That's fine roscoe, always is like saying never though. I wager the vast majority if those blowing up a gun also said they always, but it only takes one. TG just makes it that much more diff to verify a charge in a large case, fact. You & others like it, but as been noted, it's just not the best tool for the job. Your choice of course, we are just giving an informed opinion.

[roscoepc]

Originally Posted by fredj338

That's fine roscoe, always is like saying never though. I wager the vast majority if those blowing up a gun also said they always, but it only takes one. TG just makes it that much more diff to verify a charge in a large case, fact. You & others like it, but as been noted, it's just not the best tool for the job. Your choice of course, we are just giving an informed opinion.

Ladies and Gentleman we have a Bingo!! And I do thank you for posting!! Informed Opinions are just what I'm looking for when I post here on any subject!!

[S&WIowegan]

Tite Group is the current bogeyman of reloaders because so many people have blown up a gun with it. Before TG it was Bullseye that generated all the stories. I have friend here who blew up his new 627 8-shot many years ago with a TiteGroup load in a 357 case. It blew while he was shooting an IPSC stage in front of God and everybody. We could never find the pieces. He is positive he could not have double-charged because he loads with a Dillon 650. S&W said they found no flaws in the gun and refused to sell him another one.

Another shooter here uses TG for every cartridge he loads!

The fault is not the powder but the errors made by we mere mortals. The stories condemning TG come because many simply can't accept they erred.

My only complaint on TG is that it burns VERY hot and will make a gun too hot to handle if enough rounds are fired rapidly.

I load 15 grs. of TiteGroup under a 350 gr. lead bullet as my powder puff 500 S&W load.

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by Carrier

I'm the same as you. I bought an 8lb jug because powder is so hit and miss where I'm at and I'm also fairly new to reloading. Then I started hearing all the stories of nuclear bombs being let off because of it. Getting ready to load some 38 special and 9mm with it as I shoot with a guy at the range that uses it in just about everything he has up to 44 magnum.
He said it measures better than most other powders but you have to be attentive when loading with it. He shoots there a lot and has been using it for several years and if there had been an issue he would say so.

1) You won't get high performance out of it, it's made for target loads.

2) If you double charge it say goodbye to your gun. If you are careful not to double charge, you're good to go.

Other than that it there are no problems that I know of.

PS: One good thing about TG and Bullseye is that a pound lasts a long time. Even a lot longer with a smaller caliber that doesn't take so much powder. What is it? Something like 3000 loads per lb. in .38 caliber?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

Ladies and Gentleman we have a Bingo!! And I do thank you for posting!! Informed Opinions are just what I'm looking for when I post here on any subject!!

Which is what we try to do. If your mind is set on using TG then why ask? Yes, it can be used but there are better choices, period.
You want to use it, so go for it.

[joeintexas]

A lot of folks don't care for TG. I have had good luck using it in 9mm, 45acp and 38spl. I haven't loaded it in magnum loads however. I agree with your original assessment on the blown gun, it was more than likely a double charge. Just my opinion. Sounds to me like you are very careful when loading and are comfortable with Tightgroup, then why not use it as you have been doing. It's not my favorite powder but I have never had a problem with it either. I have found if I follow powder company's published loads I am pretty safe and I've never seen one recommend a filler.

[Lou_the_welder]

Updated "great Bible book of Hornady " load listings for a 350 gr bullet /s&w 500. Powders listed from 28gr.-52gr.for a reason!

I was curious what manual showed titegroup as an option for a powder in a 500! This one didnt. Power pistol came close as one of the only "pistol" powders I've used that can be used, but in a 300 gr. Bullet. uploadfromtaptalk1447174539094.jpg

[joe44va]

I've been reloading for over 30 years and consider myself to be extremely careful and anal.
Last year I blew up a Kahr P9 with a double load of Clays. It wasn't the gun, it wasn't the powder, it was me.
The burned hand healed and I was able to fix the P9. Life goes on.

[cherokeetracker]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

While cruising the new Cabela's and then going to the Bass Pro close by, I heard some kind'a disturbing info about the Titegroup I'm using to reload for my 500...

I was mainly looking for Large Rifle Magnum primers and during the discussion with the guy's at Bass Pro the subject of the powder I used came up. When they found out I was using Titegroup they immediately asked if I was using a "filler". I said no and that's when they got REALLY excited, telling me about a guy that blew up a 500 using Titegroup!! I asked how much powder he was using and it was 17gr, the bullet size was never mentioned. Naturally S&W and Hodgden both supposedly denied responsibility but that was not really my question to them. I asked how, if he had the correct charge, just how did this happen because Titegroup is not a "directional" powder; it doesn't have to be in contact with the primer to ignite. They told me that if the powder is laying flat it changes how the burn rate is for the powder and can jack the pressure up....

I'm like,, REALLY??? Are you sure he didn't throw a double charge in there??? They said no way, it was how the powder was positioned in the case......

I'm not the brightest bulb in the box but I'm not the dimmest one either... I've done a TON of reading/research on powders before deciding on using Titegroup because it fit's the performance parameters I'm wanting. Hogdgen doesn't have any recommendations as far as using a filler and as far as I'm concerned, I'll not be using any until they do..

In say, the 17gr of Titegroup mentioned, there is a certain amount of pressure produced when the powder is ignited.. How would the position of the powder in the case affect the pressure produced?? That is the question I'm asking you guy's! How could the pressure increase enough without a double throw of powder because I'm thinking that what happened: A double throw!!!

Thoughts anyone??? And Please, Let's stick to the one powder mentioned: Titegroup! Less confusion that way!!!

Many Thanks!!

To address the question,,,, It would have had to have been a double charge OR Double throw depending upon what one chooses to call it. Why do I say this? Or even suggest such a thing? First off, 17 grains is 5/10ths over max,,, with 16.5 grains giving us 50,600 according to Hodgdon's manual. With an XFrame surely we can live with 17 grains..... OK Let's double that, and it gives us 34 grains. Still room enough to seat the 440 grain cast Performance Bullet. " Loading Ratio" The loading Ratio will put that quantity of powder at 86.9% Hmmm
Without Compressing the powder, we have a seated bullet. This should give us in the neighborhood of 119,102 PSI
So in theory it would have had to been a double charge, OR,,,, The notorious, Vicious," Gunshop Commando" has struck again.
Facts:
Titegroup is NON Position Sensitive. 14.5 grains is less than 17 grains and I have used it before many times if I don't want to use full power loads. IT does NOT need a filler of any kind. Hodgdon said I could even go down as far as 12 grains but not any less. I tried a few and went back to 14.5 grains. You know when you shoot a 440 grain Cast Bullet at anything,, something Over 1000 FPS is going to get some attention on both ends. Between 14.5 and 16.5 you gain a whopping 87 FPS. (Maybe)
Oh and 17 grains I don't think it would blow up an X Frame.
Of course I know what you thinking,,,,,, Commando Joe, used a magnum rifle Primer and that pushed it right over the edge.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by joe44va

I've been reloading for over 30 years and consider myself to be extremely careful and anal.
Last year I blew up a Kahr P9 with a double load of Clays. It wasn't the gun, it wasn't the powder, it was me.
The burned hand healed and I was able to fix the P9. Life goes on.

Hard to that with Clays IMO. A dbl charge should just about fill the case? Still, stranger things have happened. Consider Clays has about 1.4x the volume as TG, yeah, never did like TG.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by cherokeetracker

Of course I know what you thinking,,,,,, Commando Joe, used a magnum rifle Primer and that pushed it right over the edge.

I know that was tongue in cheek, but In my own chrono testing, mag primers have less affect on faster powders than slower powders. At some point you can't seem to over ignite a fast powder. I even tried rifle primers in a 45acp load once to see. It did raise vel quite a bit, so at a max load, maybe you get a pressure spike. Without pressure testing equip, it's a wag.

[roscoepc]

Large Rifle Magnum Primers are what Hodgden calls to be used with Titegroup so that's what I've been using with good results so far.....

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by roscoepc

Large Rifle Magnum Primers are what Hodgden calls to be used with Titegroup so that's what I've been using with good results so far.....

I believe they recommend lrm for the 500 in general, regardless of the powder. I could make any powder work on any handgun rd, it's just some are better than others. You want yo have some fun, fill it up with black powder & a lead bullet.

[roscoepc]

Reading back through all the post's, I believe my question was answered to my satisfaction which is: Yep!! The Bass Pro guy's are just repeating an urban legend regarding a PROPERLY measured load involving Titegroup that blew up a 500 due to mystical things happening inside the casing during powder ignition....

In short they're full'a Ka-Ka!!!!!!!

And to all that said there's better powder's for the 500 than Titegroup, I thank you! However please remember that I'm aiming for certain performance levels using a 350gr bullet!!

I want 1100-1200fps which Titegroup provides and provides safely using the proper precautions while handling the powder while measuring and locking the round!!

I am very open to suggestions and are more than willing to load more powder per case if you'll tell me what powder will provide this velocity with this bullet size and with either online or book loading spec's I will be more than happy to check into it and I will greatly appreciate the info!!

Many thanks to all who took the time to respond!!!!

[Rule3]

So in other words you really do not want to shoot a 500 SW magnum.

Is yours a 10" barrel?, if not then you are not even getting the claimed 1,000 to 1400 fps

It is not just Titegroup it could be say Bullseye or any other fast powder.

But if that is what you have and that is what you want to shoot, that is if course your choice, yes the data is there, just be careful out there with the powder charge.