165gr RN plated in a 9mm ?

[Nevada Ed]

I was thinking of moving up to the 147 RN to see if it really is
that accurate in target loads per some reports that I have read.

Went on line and saw that they now have HUGE .......165gr RN plated
bullets for reloading, also.

Has anyone loaded these monsters?
I will just use them on paper, if the reports are above water.
I have been on too many sinking ships lately!!.

[fredj338]

I know several Idpa guys using 158gr with good success. You just have to get them running fast enough. Not all 9mm have fast enough twist rates.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by fredj338

I know several Idpa guys using 158gr with good success. You just have to get them running fast enough. Not all 9mm have fast enough twist rates.

?????????????????????????????????????

.38 Spl. guns have twist rates from 16-20", and they handle up to 200 gr. bullets just fine. The average 9mm has a twist rate around 10". Why do you think they don't have a fast enough twist???

[Bkreutz]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

?????????????????????????????????????

.38 Spl. guns have twist rates from 16-20", and they handle up to 200 gr. bullets just fine. The average 9mm has a twist rate around 10". Why do you think they don't have a fast enough twist???

M&P's had 1:18 twist rates up until a few years ago, they switched to a 1:10 twist to handle heavier bullets. I don't shoot anything heavier than 124 although I've looked at the 165's and wondered why. I didn't think about very long. I think it could make some good SD ammo out of a short barrel, but I've never played around with them.

[Bkreutz]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

I was thinking of moving up to the 147 RN to see if it really is
that accurate in target loads per some reports that I have read.

Went on line and saw that they now have HUGE .......165gr RN plated
bullets for reloading, also.

Has anyone loaded these monsters?
I will just use them on paper, if the reports are above water.
I have been on too many sinking ships lately!!.

I've looked at those too, wondering what the purpose would be. I just had a thought. They could make a subsonic load that could make minor power factor through a suppressor. At that weight, you'd only need to get it to 757 fps. Just a thought.

[Nevada Ed]

Originally Posted by Bkreutz

I've looked at those too, wondering what the purpose would be. I just had a thought. They could make a subsonic load that could make minor power factor through a suppressor. At that weight, you'd only need to get it to 757 fps. Just a thought.

In a 3" barrel Kahr, I got a 115gr plated down to 784 fps that cleared the barrel with the super slow IMR 4227 powder, with fair accuracy.
I would probably feel better with 800 fps with the larger amount of drag/resistance of this larger bullet?

The case volume will be at a minimum, I would think.......
so I will probably start out with Ball powders, since I do not think the large flake Red or Green Dot powders that I use for target work will work out.
A 115gr at 1.10 oal only let 3.9grs of Red Dot into the case for a 100% volume loading. CFE at 5.9grs was not a problem and it gave 1182 fps.
It might be doable............?
Later.

[Bkreutz]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

In a 3" barrel Kahr, I got a 115gr plated down to 784 fps that cleared the barrel with the super slow IMR 4227 powder, with fair accuracy.
I would probably feel better with 800 fps with the larger amount of drag/resistance of this larger bullet?

The case volume will be at a minimum, I would think.......
so I will probably start out with Ball powders, since I do not think the large flake Red or Green Dot powders that I use for target work will work out.
A 115gr at 1.10 oal only let 3.9grs of Red Dot into the case for a 100% volume loading. CFE at 5.9grs was not a problem and it gave 1182 fps.
It might be doable............?
Later.

Just remember, as the bullet weight goes up, it gets longer. So you have to shorten the powder charge or lengthen the OAL. If I was going to play with 165's, I think I'd start at 1.169" if my chamber would take it.

[Nevada Ed]

I had a 115gr RN at 1.20" and it slid right in my 9mm with the back of the case flush at the back of the barrel, that was field stripped.

I think this 9mm will work........................

I will recheck if I get the bullets, to make sure all is well.
I might test a few 147's before the 165's to get an idea of what is happening in the OAL department and powder fittings.
Later.

[rwsmith]

Recently I shot my best with 9mm coated 147 gr SWC with a low velocity load. I veritably chewed the center out of the target. I didn't know I could shoot that good.

[Engineer1911]

Where does the powder fit?

[m657]

while I celebrate the investigation of such loads (165g) in a 9mm by others, if I want to use that weight range I prefer to switch to my 610 revolver in 40 S&W caliber.

I've had too much time/trouble dealing with mysterious & unnecessary FAIL of various kind in pursuit of reliable accurate 9mm autos, to add another layer of opportunity to accumulate unusable loads I've made under some vague notion 'what if......'

[ironhead7544]

I use the 160 gr RNL bullets in the 9mm. Very accurate and only needs a small charge to work.

The 165 gr bullets will give more energy to a subsonic load meant for a suppressor. The only problem might be that the case may bulge a bit at the bottom with some cases. This happens with the 160 gr RNL so I use a Lee Factory Crimp die to correct the problem.

[Nevada Ed]

By chance, does anyone have the overall length/height of a 165gr bullet?

.72" ?


( Reworded due to the last 4 answers.............)

[Bkreutz]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

By chance, does anyone have the overall length/height of a 165gr bullet?
It could help me out in getting an idea of what case volume may be attainable......... depending on the OAL used.

Thank you.

Easiest way to do that is to load a bullet into an empty case, leave it purposely long (say around 1.9), don't put much of a crimp on it (if at all). mark the bullet with a Sharpie and put it in the barrel, when it comes out it will probably have marks on it from the rifling (and it won't go all the way into the chamber. Adjust you seating die down a few thousands, remark the bullet with a Sharpie and repeat. Do this until the bullet will fit without marks on the bullet. Then see if this bullet will load into the magazine without touching the front and back of the mag at the same time. This will give you the maximum length for your gun. Then measure an unloaded bullet, measure your unloaded cartridge from the tip of the bullet to the case mouth, subtract the first measurement from the second. This will give you the distance that the bullet is in the case. This is the way I would do it (if I was going to do it, which I'm not). Good luck, let us know the results.


Oops, I misread your post, I thought you already had some. Maybe calling the retailer selling the bullets. I know Xtreme and RMR is selling them. Give them a shout. They won't give you any load info (liability I suspect) but dimensions of their bullet shouldn't be a problem. You can still use the procedure I described with any bullet you have (assuming the same type of bullet) to get the longest OAL for your gun.

[k22fan]

Older Lyman reloading manuals have 9 mm loads for their 158 grain RN .38 molds. Their new manuals probably still have them. My first mold was to assemble those loads for a model 39. With my alloy they cast about 10 grains over catalog weight. All went well. Saeco sells a 150 grain RN 9 mm mold with a nose shape similar to GI Joe ball. Those castings turned out to be my best combination of accuracy and reliability in a Star Super B. The Star's chamber would not accept bullets over .355" which is what my Saeco mold cast at.

[revolver club prez]

Hello , Nevada Ed ,
I once had to load 9mm with 160 grain lead bullets . I used the load information for 38 Smith and Wesson cartridges as the case dimensions are close .The gun was a mod 547 9 mm revolver . The grove dia. was 357. The result was the point of impact was raised and no keyholeing , the original problem , with lead bullets .
These were also used in a pistol , a CZ .These also raised the point of impact , but the slide seemed to move in slow motion .
All of this was done for educational experiment , for my self .

[pete950]

Ed give 3.0 of bullsey a try!!!

[Simmer down]

Any follow ups on these heavy weight loads?

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

?????????????????????????????????????

.38 Spl. guns have twist rates from 16-20", and they handle up to 200 gr. bullets just fine. The average 9mm has a twist rate around 10". Why do you think they don't have a fast enough twist???

Explain the why so many guys have issues with bullet stability shooting 158gr at low vel in 9mm?I'm running 160gr ltc in my new springer 1911, 825fps, sub 2" groups at 25yds. So you can get them to work, but it will be gun/bbl specific.

[rockquarry]

I assume some of you are referring to the Lyman #358311 round nose .38 Special bullet (about 156 - 160 grains, depending on alloy mix). I've read of good accuracy with it in the 9mm, but I've never tried it.

I did try the Lyman #356637 (about 157 grains, wheelweight alloy) twenty or so years ago. Accuracy was poor as I recall, probably because the as-cast bullets were .357", a bit undersize for my Beretta, Sig, and P4. However this bullet might do quite well in a tight-bored gun.

Some have complained of case bulge when seating the heavy, long bullets. While it may be unsightly, it hurts nothing as long as there are no chambering or feeding reliability problems.

An obvious major caution, however, has to do with powder charge and seating depth. What would be minor concern with a short, light bullet becomes critical (and potentially dangerous) with a long, heavy bullet in a case with the limited powder capacity of the 9mm. Pressures can quickly get out of control when seating a bullet "only a little deeper" or using another .1 or .2 grain of powder.

I prefer heavy cast bullets in the 9mm as I've found them to be more accurate. Good luck with the 165s.

[S&WIowegan]

I'll speculate that this kind of heavy bullet, slow velocity loading would work very well in the S&W Model 929 or 986. It's the same idea we use in loading 38 Short Colt. I haven't tried it yet but that's the direction I'll go. Such a load will minimize recoil.