Although my LGS currently has any powder that I might want, during the shortage I bought whatever I could find. Thus I have several pounds each of W231 and HP-38. I'm about to finish a bottle of W231 and next up in order purchased is HP-38. My normal procedure while loading is when the powder in the measure is low I open up the next bottle and pour it in and whatever is left over when I'm done goes back into the newly opened bottle. I've read over and over again that W231 & HP-38 are the same powder, just a different label on the container but something just makes me jumpy about mixing the two. Anyone have any advice on what to do? Thanks.

when mixing powders wait until the first bottle/can is down to an ounce or so..maybe two. Mix them thoroughly and use. Are they both fairly new lots? Yes 231/HP38 are one and the same. I also mixed 296/H110....did that fairly regularly but I was loading 410 with it. I also do it with rifle powders but only the same brand /number. Always wait till the first bottle can is down to very low levels then mix the older with the new thoroughly. I have done this since the 1960s and NEVER a problem. In fact I am pretty certain I saw this addressed in Handloader Magazine maybe one of the question/answer columns.

I do it the same way, top the old with the new in the powder measure.

It probably does not matter which method you use, but if you mix the old with the new thoroughly in the canister again and again, then five canisters down the road some amount of that powder from the first can is still there. Granted it's small. But powder deteriorates over time so I always felt it best to completely use it up. But it's an unproven theory of mine.

There was a big ground beef recall once where the problem was that they kept putting the leftovers from cleaning the machine back in the new stuff. Eventually some of the tiny bit that remained went bad and contaminated an entire production run.

I prefer to put the "leftovers" in the measure and top it with the new when I am sure that I will be loading enough rounds to completely use up the "leftovers".

No worries about mixing the two, but glenwolde brings up a good point. Use the old completely, although powder deteriorates so slowly that it shouldn't be a concern if you mix it.

Regardless whether it is HP38 or Win231, it is prudent to WEIGH charges from a new lot number, and ADJUST the volumetric powder measure if necessary. The density varies from lot to lot and Murphy says it is possible for the density of your old lot and the new one to be at opposite extremes of the variance. I have found as much difference between lot densities as between any two samples comparing HP38 to Win231.

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Science plus Art

One problem with the just top it off. I did that with a new can of powder in my Dillon 1050. Never even thunk about it. HP38/HP38 Just for grins I checked the powder charge..new powder was more than a grain heavier..I know I should have checked. Volumetrically it was the same and it was only ten minutes worth..but 10 minutes with a 1050 Dillon is a lot of rounds. And how do you check the previous couple of hundred in the loaded round bin?? I still haven't taken them apart yet. But could probably shoot 'em in the Ruger Single Action..at least +p LOL. As far as the powder deteriorating. Umm Not gonna happen unless you use that powder for maybe 30-40 yrs. After mixing an ounce or so in the 2nd new can statistically even if the original went bad 2 cans later you would never notice it. And if it isn't stored right and it goes bad..you ain't loading enough!! Since I have been loading(1958) I had one can(4320) that rusted one of the old metal cans from inside. Right now I have a couple pounds of Hi Vel #2 in a small keg dated 1937 and still using it in the 30-30. Ought to go ahead and load it all up in other calibers. And I also have some WWII surplus 4895 and quite a bit 4831 from the same time that is still just fine. Always check a new batch of powder for charge weight..

I have my doubts that mixing it in the canister will actually eventually make it "go bad". But after five cans you could potentially have small amount of five different lots.

Just seems like that would not be best practice. But it's all theoretical and I've never heard of anybody actually having a problem mixing them.

I do check a new can to see if it's throwing the same weight before I combine it in the powder measure, and I'm not loading anywhere near max.

You can just use a Lee dipper if you want to keep it simple. Take any dipper and scoop a new can and write the weight on the label. Like .5cc=5.4. Do the same when you pop the next can. If there's a discrepancy you can check what your powder measure is doing. If you're using Lee measures you can also use that number to extrapolate waht any cavity is going to throw. Check it though, of course.

No one is going to seriously recommend mixing two different batches of the same powder - certainly not the powder manufacturers and distributers. Yet I'll bet most of us have done it to one extent or another over time.

You may not like the idea, but a new batch of powder means you should test again. Given a +/-5% range, the difference between your old and new batches could theoretically be as much as 10%. And that ignores possible differences in chemistry as well.

I have about 1/4 pound of my last 8lb jug of HP38 and I'm getting ready to load another 3k rounds of 9mm and 45ACP. Before I run out the old powder, I'm running a test on the new batch of 10x1lb jugs. If they test the same, I'll just pour the last of the old into the PM, pour the new on top, and reload.

If not, I'll run out the old powder, throw away what little can't be metered into cases, and start fresh on the new batch with new settings.

YMMV. GLHF and stay safe.

Well, during the powder crisis, I bought 2 1 lb bottles of Win231 and another 2 Bottles of HP38. Believe it or not, but the 2 Win231 bottles have different lot numbers. The 2 bottles of HP38 have different lot numbers. BUT, one of the Win231 lot numbers match with one of the HP38 lot number. And, YES, the other Win231 matches the other HP38 lot number. Had to see it to believe it myself. ....So I suppose it is true that Win231 and HP38 are the same powder. Different lots, I'd still still test to see what weight it drops (Heck I'm still a newbie after 2 years of reloading; call me OCD, but I still check the weight drop from the same setup, from the same bottle before starting a run and in the middle of run anyway.)

Good luck,
PaJ

I have several bottles of H110 and W296 that carry the exact same lot number down to the typeface used to print the numbers. Since W231 and HP38 are currently both Hodgdon products I would not be at all surprised that the only difference between the two is the label. So, mixing the two powders should not present any risk of harm provided they are of recent vintage and in good condition. About the only thing I would advise is the same as posted previously, if the lot numbers are different run the one bottle as far down as possible and mix it thoroughly into the fresh bottle.

I use APS priming strips in my RCBS 2000 and generally weigh a charge every two strips which is 50 rounds. I don't normally have to adjust charges between lot numbers but for some reason am having some problems getting past the idea that it's the same powder, just a different name. Thanks everyone for the tips.

That's not OCD, that's SOP. The rules are the same whether you've been reloading for 2 years or 40 years.

I remember back when 231 was a new powder on the market. There
was a good write up of it and recommended load data as with any new
powder. The author was employed by Winchester at the time I believe.
He made it very clear in the article that 231 was formulated to be very
consistant from lot to lot by volume not weight. The idea was that
most loaders use measures and so the same setting could be used
with difference lots. I guess Winchester didn't understand handloader
mentality as most users of 231 or any powder get all upset when they
use a new lot and find small variations between lots when charges are
weighed.

Of all the things you need to worry about, powder going bad is the least of them. I finished up a cannister of 40 year old Unique last weekend. Just opened up a fresh cannister of 25 year old Unique.

Don

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NRA Cert. Reloading Instructor

I'm not only a gun collector, I also collect powder(or so it seems). I started handloading about 25 years ago and really enjoyed everything involved in it. I had a habit of buying a pound of most handgun powders I saw at gun shows and LGS.

During the recent powder shortages, I took a serious look at these 1# cans in my cabinet. I was also wanting to use up my old cast and lubed bullets. So, I began churning out 45 ACP rounds with powders like 700X and PB. It worked out OK but I did under load one batch while using up PB.

I found a never opened can of Winchester 540 and a nearly empty bottle of HS-6. I mixed the two at the beginning and cranked out lots of fairly hot 38 Super rounds. I weight check and chrono frequently when doing this type of reloading(indoor chrono setup).

Hodgdon has been selling Winchester powders under Hodgdon labels since before I began loading, i.e. 296/H110, 231/HP38, 540/HS-6, 571/HS-7 and many others that have faded away.

It's good practice to check a fresh can of the same powder each time, weigh it and chrono some rounds to see what you have.

Handloading is a fun adventure(just don't fill a 44 Magnum case with Bullseye)!

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Current production is the same, but older versions were slightly diff. I would mix current but not old & new.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

alwslate,

I don't doubt you for a second. But, as a newbie reloader, how are we supposed to know that? All the manuals list powder usage by weight. I recognize that the manufacturer could mess around mixing different powders together to get the same performance from the same volume and the powder be a different weight (ie change the density of the powder as they adjust its performance). As a reloader, I certainly hope they took a different approach by mixing powders from multiple batches to get a uniform density and, thereby, also a uniform measure either by weight or volume.

The best,
PaJ

These are the FEW powders that the manufacturer says are the same exact powder. What people say here about lots varying makes good sense. Drop the load down and work your way back up.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

You do have actual tested, published data to support your
claim that current 231 is different than "old" 231 or that
current 231 and HP38 are the same but older 231 and HP38
were "slightly different", right?

This is a very good question and unless you had read the
information available at the time of introduction then you are
unlikely to ever see it published anywhere. The best answer
and solution to most handloading questions is a chronograph.
The value of a chronograph to any serious handloader cannot
be overstated. To answer your question directly, if loading
below absolute maximum like most loaders do, the easy way
would be to chronograph a few loads of a new lot of powder
loaded with the same measure setting before automatically
concluding that you must change the setting (volume) with
every change of powder lot. Some handloaders just try to
reduce concerns by buying as much as they can of favorite
powders with the same lot number.

I do know..in early 1980(I think..have to look at the receipt) I bought a 25 lb box of Hodgdon HP-38 from a powder distributor. Cardboard box..Marked all 4 sides HP-38. When I opened the box there was a Plastic bag Tied at the top with a tag that was marked Winchester 231. I no longer have the box of course but I do have that tag. And the receipt for the powder and all the other items I bought that day. I remember that so well because I bought New old stock standard weight 20 ga 1100s..6 of them. One was the rarest 1100. A standard weight left hand 20 ga rifle sighted deer gun. Wish I had kept it. 231 and HP-38 have been the same since at least then I think.