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  #1  
Old 12-25-2015, 12:50 PM
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Default 90 XTP with Titegroup in .380

I was going to make some practice loads using some 90g Hornady XTP's and titegroup. My manual shows a max of 3.4g with velocity numbers head and shoulder above the other powders.

When I checked the hogdon site, I see they indicate 3.2g as max. I was planning on 2.9-3.0 depending on what my autodisk rotor throws and loading it to the same OAL as my Hornady Custom carry ammo #90102 that uses the same bullet.

Does this sound reasonable? I normally use Unique in just about everything but I'm thinking a faster powder in my Bodyguard would be a good idea.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Szumi

Last edited by Szumi; 12-25-2015 at 12:55 PM. Reason: 3.3 changed to 3.4 when I re read manual
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:48 PM
Vortec MAX Vortec MAX is offline
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I looked through my chrono data and found two loads where I used Titegroup and the 90 GR XTP bullet. These were tested from a Ruger LCP. Both loads used Starline brass and CCI 500 primers.

3.2 Grains - 876 FPS - 62 FPS spread - 17.8 Std Dev - 154 ft-lb energy

3.4 Grains - 939 FPS - 55 FPS spread - 14.8 Std Dev - 177 ft-lb energy

The spreads were slightly higher than I like to see, but they were good loads overall.

Not sure if that helps or not.

Mike
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:28 PM
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IMO Titegroup is an excellent choice for the 380. The burn rate is well suited for the caliber and the limited case capacity of the 380 means that this powder will be more efficient in terms of velocity produced than almost any other powder. Note, if you look at Alliant's data for Unique you'll find that you have to run a compressed charge to match what a basic load of Titegroup can achieve. While there is nothing wrong with using a compressed load with a bullet such as the XTP trying to compress the powder charge with the bullet will usually lead to the nose of the bullet collapsing.
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortec MAX View Post
Not sure if that helps or not.

Mike
Oh it helped. I found out today that my smallest rotor drops 3.5 g of titegroup and that Lee wrecked their small charge mold.

Loaded 96 rounds using my lyman 55 and a loading block. Fed the cases in manually through my Lee Loadmaster to neck expand, seat, taper crimp.

I ordered a 3d printed microdisk kit so I don't have to do this again.

I shot a few rounds, they functioned fine, knocked plates over, primers looked fine, recoil felt the same as some Hornady Custom .380 I shot back to back.

Come better weather I'll bench and crono this and report back. It will be Spring time though. Winter finally hit northern michigan.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:27 PM
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Titan Reloading had my new microdisk they make at my post office today. Two days from order is awesome.

The next batch I run off will go a lot quicker.

Last edited by Szumi; 12-28-2015 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:43 PM
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Come better weather I'll bench and crono this and report back. It will be Spring time though. Winter finally hit northern michigan.
Don't blame you a bit. Who wants to freeze their backside off when it's so much warmer by a nice fire.

Winter is hitting the Detroit Metro area right now. Temp is about 30 with winds gusting up to about 35 or 40 mph and a nasty freezing sleet falling. I should have spent an hour on the Elliptical at the gym tonight but I'm not going anywhere tonight.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:49 AM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Max, I agree that those extreme spreads look... Well, extreme. Any ideas why? How do you measure? In the past I often found it hard for my powder measure to drop little .380 loads accurately, but I would like to hear your opinion.
Fuzzy
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:17 PM
bolson bolson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Szumi View Post
Oh it helped. I found out today that my smallest rotor drops 3.5 g of titegroup
Same here. I wanted to start with 2.6 gr of titegroup for my 380 load. I drilled a small hole thru the side of the disk and tapped it for an adjustment screw. It works perfectly, after playing around with it I can now drop whatever I want and its consistent....2.6 every time or make a slight adjustment if I want 2.7 or 2.8

Last edited by bolson; 01-12-2016 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:37 PM
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it sounds like a bad setup all around.
First, using the XTP, or any other JHP in a target load does nothing but add needless expense.
Even in a defensive loading, the 380 maintains a very tight energy budget that teeters between adequate penetration and terminal upset.
Your far ahead with a good flat nose design in this one.

Next is your powder measure.
the Hodgdon site shows min to max charges that spread over a half of a grain or less.
"whatever cavity works" is not a healthy thought process when developing a load.
You'd do better with something that you can infinitely adjust so as to better address the needs of any cartridge this small.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:44 PM
Vortec MAX Vortec MAX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzymcnab View Post
Max, I agree that those extreme spreads look... Well, extreme. Any ideas why? How do you measure? In the past I often found it hard for my powder measure to drop little .380 loads accurately, but I would like to hear your opinion.
Fuzzy
Well I would have to speculate to answer this. I would guess that due to the smaller charge weights, possibly the powder is slightly position sensitive causing some charges to more fully ignite over others.

I measure by weighing each charge. I would not call these spreads extreme, since many loads with different powders are higher, but I personally like to see spreads below 50 FPS in pistol cartridges. For comparison, I only had two factory loads of all that I tested get below 50 FPS spread.

Powders that were below this threshold in some loadings (not all charge weights were) were Power Pistol, AutoComp, and 3.0 grains of TiteGroup. Some other powders were well over 100 FPS spreads. PP and AC had the most charge weights that were under 50 FPS spreads.

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Old 01-18-2016, 11:22 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Vortec,
With the greatest of respect I must disagree with your 50 fps comfort level. Just last week I finished an article testing some of the "Cheapo" ammunition brands, in this case, 9mm. Only one of these gave ES numbers above 50 fps, and that ammo happened to have unacceptable variances in overall length. This is just my observation.
blessings to y'all, fuzzy
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Old 01-19-2016, 01:02 AM
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Default With a fixed powder measure....

I drop a charge right on my scale with a smaller amount than I want and use my Redding trickler to raise it to where I want it. It's a little tedious and slow, but I've gotten pretty good at it and I don't care anyway.

In my experience Titegroup meters extremely well.
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:52 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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My 380 is a Sig 290 picked up on the cheap at a Black Friday sale and it's proven to be a bit fussy about the Energy produced by a particular load. As in it really only functions reliably if the load used is right at the maximum or even a bit over. According to the range I shoot at most often this is rather typical for semi autos using the 380 caliber. So, just posting this as a guide for those finding their reloads in 380 don't seem to be reliable. It probably isn't your bullet choice or the overall length, you just need to test some loads at th e maximum and see if that solves the problems. Did that last Sunday and it's the first time I've gotten through a full box of 50 rounds without a jam of some description. BTW, one real tipoff was the weak ejection that was being masked by my use of a hand mounted brass catcher. Setting that to the side and chasing brass is what led to me loading at maximum and it worked.

BTW, bullet tested was a Berry's RN plated and the powder charge was a maximum of CFE Pistol per Hodgdon with the OAL 0.015 shorter than what Hodgdon recommends at 0.965. Yeah, didn't like running the OAL that short but also didn't like only having about 0.08 inches gripping the bullet in the case. Since the 380 operates at pressures barely above 38 special I figured running a bit short wouldn't hurt and when looking for case bulges from these "short" loads I found none. Function was perfect and the ejected cases actually made it more than 12 inches from the pistol.

Yeah, the ejection from my P290 is really that weak. you aought to see what Remington UMC is like, that particular ammo barely makes it out of the ejection port.
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:43 PM
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I have found, through a lengthy process, that my glock 42 only cycles with higher velocity loads above 900 fps. Anything less than that just doesn't work, fte. Currently loading 3.5 gr of w231 with 100 gr rnfp extreme. Listed in an older Hornady manual. Shoots well @ 920 fps. Max load is listed as 3.7 gr.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:47 PM
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I've found Titegroup to be excellent in .380 ACP. The 3.4gr load is listed as maximum by Brian Pearce in loaddata.com. I've used the Sierra 90 JHP bullet, which has a longer bearing surface than the Hornady 90 XTP. Overall loaded length 0.940"

M&P Bodyguard 380
3.2 grains 904 fps SD 12
3.4 grains 980 fps SD 8

Kel-Tec P3AT
3.4 grains 958 fps SD14

Glock 42
3.4 grains 984 fps SD 24

Maxiumum loads with Power Pistol will top 1000 fps, but accuracy suffers.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
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My 380 is a Sig 290
Everything I can find shows a 290 as being 9mm.
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Old 04-15-2017, 12:13 AM
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Everything I can find shows a 290 as being 9mm.
No wonder it's finicky with .380
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