Ages ago, when I started hand loading my handgun ammo, I asked my gunsmith how I could test my handloads for accuracy, while removing the element of human error. His answer was to get a Ransom Rest.

Today, with a serious return to bull's-eye pistol shooting, I want to develop the most accurate hand loads that I am capable of. However, in looking at the cost of a Ransom Rest today, I realized that I can't come close to affording one.

How do you test the accuracy of your hand loads while minimizing human error?

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Judge control not gun control!

I shoot off a bean bag on a bench to brace my hands (but never allow any portion of the gun to contact the bag.) Additionally, I use a small stick on dot (not full target) to focus on/aim at. Try to find a dot that equals the width of your front sight at your target distance. The trick is to use the same sight picture, trigger squeeze, grip hold.... to minimize outside influence.

All that said, some gun clubs and ranges have ransom rests that can be rented pretty cheap. (You'll need the adapter for your gun as well.)It's a great way to finish testing once you get your pet load narrowed down. It's worth a call around to see if you can hunt one up.
You'll only need it for a hour or two if you come prepared.

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Dave

"How do you test the accuracy of your hand loads while minimizing human error?"

I suspect far too many of us go to great lengths in pursuit of that very same question yet discover our crystal clear eyesight and our rock steady shooting position and our near-perfect trigger break, is somehow confused with geezer vision & too wobbly stance.

For myself I've managed to compensate just a little, by having consistent reliable hand loads and spectacular trigger smoothness.

45 years ago I started serious pistol training, but found on my best day I was barely mediocre. The old IHMSA and bulls eye disciplines now are just too demanding, although a few months ago at the range I ran across another shooter recognized from IHMSA of so long ago. His magnificent DW 41 special and special coaching I was able to hit the 200 yard gong 3 out of 5 shots, which represented a tremendous result.

Personally I've had to move to range games with closer/bigger targets.
I've had to move my own goals from 'competitor' to 'participant'.

Good luck in your endeavors.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

You do the best you can. A rest of some kind is IMO a necessity, and the works very well . . . especially for the price.

Have you considered an optic for testing even if you don't compete with one? This is what I do with my Ruger MK II. However, to mount an optic to a 1911 might cost more than a Ransom rest.

I use a browning 7 1/2 " bag to rest the barrel of my gun. I do fire all shots double action but that's way I shoot in competition so that's the way I practice.

With this setup and my reloads I get one ragged hole at 15 yards and just aboutr 1 = 1 1/2 inches at 25 yards. That's when I know my reloads are doing what they should.

Occasionally I'll move the target out to 50 yards to see what I'm getting. I'm looking for 4 inches at 50 yards which is the size of the X zone on a Bianchi target

I think that whatever method and equipment you use, doing everything the same with the recipes you try is the key. Regardless of how you do it, if it is the same for each one, you will get an apples-to-apples comparison.

I have one of the rests that Twoboxer shows in his post and the all-metal one the NRA sells. It has rubber lining and really works well. It's heavier therefore steadier than the all-plastic Caldwell. I wanted to post a link to it or a photo but for some reason I cannot find it on the NRA Store's website. It was in a Christmas catalog I received in November, however.

Ed

I went through an accuracy kick about 5 or 6 years back and learned a few things along with learning how to shoot well from a sandbag rest.

The first thing I learned was that with a centerfire revolver resting the barrel in a sandbag reduced the accuracy. The reason is that a rested barrel won't "ring" consistently and because of that bullets get thrown off. What I round worked best for me was to arrange the sandbags in a V shape so I could rest my forearms and wrists on the sandbags.

Note, with my 22 caliber 617 resting the barrel had no effect on accuracy, probably because the profile of the thicker barrel walls didn't allow it to "ring" with the lighter caliber. However, for me resting the barrel really didn't provide any benefit.

The second thing I learned was that shooting really tiny groups takes a LOT of practice. After installing a 1.75X handgun scope on my 620 and practicing twice a week for 6 solid weeks I was able to get down to 7/8 inch groups at 50 yards. I also learned that shooting to this level requires more practice time than I'm willing to put in, now I'm happy if I can shoot 4 inches at 50 yards off a rest and 8-12 inches offhand at that distance. BTW, most of my revolver shooting right now is with a 2 1/2 inch model 19 and with that sight radius I consider 4 inches from a rest rather good. Wish I could do better offhand but I'd probably have to totally give up caffeine and that's a sacrifice I'm not willing to make.

When shooting a rifle, one NEVER lets the barrel rest on any thing.
I use the same idea with my Revolvers but will let a sand bag touch the trigger guard if it has to with my grip style with a certain model.

I never checked if resting the bottom of a pistol at the muzzle made a difference over a "Free style" bottom frame. One more thing on my bucket list to check out.

I do know that I shot a LOT better with iron sights before I hit 50 and now at 70, 25 yards is at maximum yardage until I get some needed eye surgery.

Have fun.

Never had it disturb group size, nor as much as I could tell POI. May have a slightly different POI than the shooter's normal freehand but - if so - only because downward movement is restricted.

Getting the human error out of the search for pistol loading accuracy is actually harder to do than with rifles. Here is what worked for me over the years: NEVER let the barrel or the butt of the handgun touch any sort of rest no matter how soft the rest is. Shoot single action when you can. Have the sun light at your 6 o'clock if possible.

Now to build a good rest very cheaply. Takes a little wood working, but if you can't do it find a local wood shop guy to do this for you: Cut a piece of 2x6 and 2x4 wood to 14 to 15" length. cut a piece of 1x4 to same length. Cut a dado rabbet groove in the 2x4 down the middle just wide enough to be able to force the edge of the 1x4 into that groove. The groove should be about 1/2" to 3/4" deep and for the full length of the 2x4. Cut a shallow "V" in one side of the 1x4 starting at full width at the end and 'V-ing' down to about 1 1/2" deep at the center of that board. Nail or screw the 2x4 down to the 2x6 centered and flush at the ends. Place the 1x4 in the groove and wood glue it into place. Cut two strips of heavy carpet about 1 1/2" to 2" wide into the same length as your pistol rest width. Glue them into place at the bottom of the "V" while a few small brad nails out at the ends are OK. Get yourself an old bath towel. Roll the towel up in a roll and put rubber bands at both ends of the roll to keep it in place.

Now the technique to use the above pistol rest: Use a benchrest or a sturdy table. Place the rest in a comfortable position for you to rest the yoke portion of a S&W revolver in the bottom of that "V" with your wrists across the towel roll. Do not put your elbows down on the table. Get comfortably seated and aim at your target. I use common paper plates with a red round 2" sticky target dead center of the plate. I also shoot at 10 yards. Practice doing every thing the same every time that you shoot. Remember, this is for accuracy and is not an exercise in self defense shooting, so shoot single action if possible. Use excessive ear protection, i.e. ear plugs and muffs. Do not shoot so much as to get very tired. Keep good records. If the wind comes up, quit shooting. Again watch the angle of the sun behind you. If it changes much you are going to 'see' the front sight differently.

You are not 'sighting' in the handgun, so it doesn't matter where on the paper plate the group forms. I use the 9 to 3 o'clock sight picture, but it is totally acceptable to use the 6 o'clock hold.

If you are shooting a revolver you might find that one or two chambers are not as 'accurate' as the others. You might find that you use only one chamber of the cylinder for your testing. Number your chambers with a 'sharpie' pen so you can keep track.

If you are shooting an autoloader, mark your magazines for continued identification and load only the amount of cartridges you are using for your 'groups'. Make sure your auto loader is clean and lubed exactly the same every time it goes to the range for accuracy testing.

Use 'fouling' shots when beginning. I use 'junk' ammo to get two, three or four rounds downrange before starting the accuracy testing. .............

Hello. I wish to elaborate a little.

I am looking to identify the tightest grouping handloads at 50 yards for my K38 and my Trophy Match for NRA 2700 matches. I would like to identify a load that will hold the 10 ring at 50 yards using wadcutters and semi wadcutters, using what has become readily available powders. Then for my 41 and 357 Magnums. My Model 27 and 57 will be used for IHMSA style matches, if I can find any within a reasonable distance.

This would not be an issue if Bullseye and 231 could be had. Now looks like my go to powders will be Titegroup, CFE Pistol, and HP38. While load development and range testing are supposed to be fun, I really do hate reinventing the wheel!

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

If it is really important then ransom rest is your only real solution.

Buy once cry once.

I got mine off Ebay and have never regretted it.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
Ruggy

This looks like a possibility, and has mostly excellent user reviews.

Shoot off of sandbags . Do not rest the barrel or any part off the gun on the bag , just your hands . Take a bit of getting use to , but doable . Ransom Rest is a wonderful tool , but setup , mounting & getting gun settled in the rest are critical for repeatable results . Sandbags will work almost as well & are much cheaper . A scope & / or red dot sight make it much easier to maintain the same point of aim . 10 shot groups @ 50yds . Don't waste time / ammo @ 25yds , as you can clean a 25yd target shooting rocks in a well built gun . When I first test a 1911 I try 3.8grs Bullseye with a 200gr swaged lead SWC i.e. Zero , Magnus . If you'll search my past posts you'll find testing with many tried & proven Bullseye loads that perform well @ 50yds ( might save you some time ) . Many waste too much time , effort & money looking for the ultimate load . Find a usable one & train . As a previous 2700 shooter you know that trigger control , grip & stance are important , the load is secondary . In the 45 the 185 JHP ( Nosler or Zero ) with VVN-310 , WST or Bullseye is the premier load , but unless one has deep pockets a tad expensive . Hope this helps . Feel free to PM me if I can help . See you on the line , Andy

I have that one but have made mods to it so I can remove the clamp section and rest my shooting hand on a sand bag. The rest can not be used to clamp the gun in and shoot it is for clamping it in and adjusting the sights to where the bullet impacted. That works very well for adjusting sights with only one shot but it is not a Ransom Rest. Even with a Ransom Rest you have to fire several shots while tightening the clamps till then settle in. Load testing is the biggest part of my shooting and I go to the indoor range nearly every day. A chrono is also a important tool as poor SD and ES loads are not going to group well. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Quality scopes are a huge +.

The smallest scope I use for testing ammo is a 4x target dot.
All of the scopes I test with have adjustable ao's.
Most of my testing is done with a couple different burris 7x target dot scopes that have adjustable ao's.

I've always rested the bbl's/front of the revolvers and pistols I test on the rest.

I've showed these pics before, these are test targets from me testing different loads.

Looking for a target load for a nm 1911 in 45acp, went with the tried and true h&g #68 (clone) and test 3.6gr/3.8gr/4.0gr loads, iron sights @ 50ft from a rest.



Looking for a plinking load for a beater 629/44mag. Wanted minute of popcan (1 1/2") @ 25yds. Tested several different bullets and powders. Didn't take long to find a couple loads that meant that criteria. A 629 with the bbl rested on a rest with a 4x target dot scope.



Bought a new 686 and wanted some plinking loads (shotgun shells @ 50ft). Shot from 50ft with the bbl rested on the rest with a 7x target dot scope.



Wanted to know how this 15ogr hollow based round flat nosed bullet would do in a 9mm. So I loaded up some light target loads for a 10" contender bbl chambered in 9mm and put a 7x target dot scope on it and put up some targets @ 50yds. Again the bbl was rested on the rest.



A quality scope sure helps.
Another thing to try/test is have someone else load the firearm for you and have the leave 1 cylinder empty or put a dummy round in. Trigger control and no flinching are the name of the game.

Hate to say it but these old eyes are getting tired. Back in the day I didn't need a scope to test loads.

Good luck at the range.

Forrest r Nice shooting and sound advice trigger control is a must being one with the gun. Shooting is 90% mental and 10% physical you must grip squeeze trigger sight alignment sight picture open sights and scope picture breathing you must be in control of all.

Sorry to say it but Ruggy's right about the Ransom Rest. Any other method still introduced the human factor into the equation and unless you shoot multiple groups with each load, preferably over several days, you'll never know if you made the right choice. Even then, you might be wrong.

This is my accuracy shooting bench. I am shooting a Sig P 210, last year shot over 28,000 rounds from the garage sale recliner chair that cost me $16.00. This is the most stable shooting position I have found and it very closely represents the hand held action of the hand gun. It is very accurate and realistic.

If I shoot off of sand bags I find the bullet impact is different.

I work with 20 round loads until I find one I like then test with 50 round groups on steel gongs. It is very easy to shoot a 5 round 1" goup at 88 yards, but try to shoot 50 or 100 and you have a much better data base.



My target is a 10 inch chain sprocket at 88 yards from the chair, spray paint it with primer and you have a new target - if you want to remember it take a photo.

If you don't mind spending the money to buy a firearm that's 800$+......

How is it such a stretch to spend 400$ to realize their full potential???

One of the first things you need to be competitive in Bullseye is to have TOTAL faith and confidence in the tool your throwing the lead at the paper with.

After that, its all you, THAT is the real name of the game RIGHT?!?!?

Like anything else it is the hunt that is the most enjoyable for me.

The late Al Miller, long-time editor of HANDLOADER and RIFLE magazines, once commented that an experienced shooter, at 25 yards, could equal 50 yard Ransom rest results. Mr. Miller was very familiar with the Ransom rest as well as sandbag-type rests.

After owning and using a Ransom rest with windage base some years ago, I would be inclined to generally agree with Al Miller's assessment.
It does take considerable practice, but one can shoot some remarkable groups from a sandbag-type rest as long as shooter fatigue doesn't become a problem.

Most experts will agree that resting only a portion of the frame (revolver or automatic) just under the barrel will give best results. As for allowing the gun butt to directly contact the rest, this should be avoided. Instead, use the rear bag to rest only the hands.

One can get impressive groups at 15 yards / 50 feet, but such a short distance masks many shooter, gun, and load shortcomings. Initial accuracy evaluation at 25 yards provides far more in the way of useful information.

If you're happy with 231 and can get HP38 you should be all set. They are the exact same powder, with different labels. I've even seen examples online of cans of the two different powders with the same lot numbers.

If your willing to drive a little, I can turn you on to Bullseye.......

Harrisburg area, 21/28$LB somewhere in there

Shops in Mechanicsburg have it too - one-pound and eight-pound containers.

Ed

So, what are you gonna do once you have found that 'Ransom Rest' one-hole - shoot all your ammo in the RRest from then on? Most guns are more accurate than we are.

The real test is what you can do with the gun in your hand and the most accurate machine rest load probably is gonna look a bit different freehand.
I would suggest practice shooting with a load that give decent results at 25 yd from a hand rest of choice.

I like what 125JHP just said.
I use 3 shot bags full of sand.
The sand is slightly wet and put into plastic bags before going into the (Brownells) canvas bags.
Then they are sewn shut.
For shooting revolvers (90% of what I do) I rest the front part of the frame only on the top bag (piled in a small pyramid).
Since my indoor range is only 50-60' that's what I go for.
Training for defense, you really need no more.
Be careful not to shoot the bag with those snubbies.
Don't ask how I know this :P

For more powerful hunting weapons, I use a little 40 yard outdoor range at a farm/LGS near here.
The sand bags, a Lead Sled, and freehand are all used to gauge and develop confidence in loads.
I got the Lead Sled when I wore my shoulder out chrono-ing 444 loads.
I don't use it for groups except to get a feel for consistency.
The POI at least is always off.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I would just test using the stance and gun that you will use in your matches. That's what will tell you what you really need to know. That's what will tell you what you can put on target the best.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

The gun probably does shoot better then most of us but if you don't test to find out what loads shoot the best in the gun you will not be shooting the best you can. To get a good check of the gun and the loads you need to take the shooter out of the picture as much as possible. Use what ever rest accomplishes that. You do not need to shoot one ragged hole in the center of the target for SD but if you can it will sure help when the pressure is on and you heart rate and breathing is not what you are used to at the range. Better to have a two inch group open up to six then a 6 inch to 12. The bad guy also probably won't be standing there giving you a full chest shot like those targets. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I have been googling something specific and it looks like those in the thread might have better opinions that what ive found so far.

Looking for best accuracy loads out of a pistol. I am ransom rest testing at 25 and 50 yards. What I would like to know is how many rounds per shot group and how many shot groups per rung do you think is adequate?

Im trying to be as methodical as can be and just ran a ladder test (well more of an OCW test) last weekend. I winded up making up 300 rounds for the test. 20 rounds per rung - 0.1g charge increments - two groups of 10 rounds each. I shot in 0.2 increments till the results narrow down what was working best and then switched to 0.1g increments.

I did it that way because it was easier and less time consuming to make extra rounds then it is to drag out and set up the ransom rest, chrono etc compared to making this a two trip testing.

Now Im getting ready to load and test varying seating depths and wondering if I need to do the same and make yet another 300 rounds up

10 to 20 rounds typically shoot to settle the gun in the mount.
(I shoot big bores revolvers)

Then 5 shoots per rung.

Typically only test at a single OAL- crimp in the cannelure for revolvers- I have found no value in testing different OAL in revolvers.

Once I settle on a load I test several groups of 5 to validate results.

Typically powder selection is based on case fill and BE calculations before hand and typically test 3 powders at a time.

be safe
Ruggy

My usual method is to shoot from a bench using sandbags as a rest, usually from a seated position. The indoor range that I have access to is limited to 50 feet, which is actually pretty good for most handgun applications (yes, I know some of you folks shoot game animals at 50-100 yards, but that is pretty specialized stuff compared to most handgun uses).

Slow and deliberate firing from the sandbag rest, controlling your breathing, and eliminating as many of the human variables will give you a pretty good idea of the accuracy potential of your ammunition. Whether or not you can duplicate that potential in match or combat courses is another matter!

If you can’t swing a mechanical rest, your next best bet will always be prone, since it is effective in minimizing upper-body movement. Shooting from prone requires a little practice so don’t expect miracles right away.

I usually load a box of 50 when trying a new combination (normally a new bullet).
These are more often than not 44 special but some magnums and Marlins.
I use steps of .5 grains of powder and load 10 of each step.
5 for the chronograph and 5 for groups.
Using the LabRadar I can combine those and shoot all 10 for both.
I don't change COL but pick a crimp and length that fits the round and gun best.
In the 444 this can be shorter than crimping in the groove in order to load correctly in the gun.
Hopefully one of these rungs on the ladder will stand out for accuracy and/or low deviation.
Having done this for a few decades I have noticed that more often than not the "golden" load will be one rung below maximum.
Then I load up a box or 2 of these and move on to another.
There are so many new bullets I don't think I will ever run out of them to try in combinations
some of which may not be what the designers had in mind.
For normal weight bullets I work around known good charges of the
standard powders that have worked for me before with other bullets that weight.
For more off-the-wall projects like putting the big Beartooth 405 in the .445 Supermag,
I'll model it in QuickLOAD first to get a handle on which powder might work best and the pressure environment to expect.
QuickLOAD has turned out to be a little conservative (which is very good), predicting things a bit hotter than I find them during testing.
This keeps my guns, body, and mind intact.
I do change a few parameters in QuickLOAD as I get real world data so the predictions get more accurate
but still back off at least one step from the predicted maximum.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I got this Weaver 307 Mount from a member here. Think they have been discontinued but I see them on eBay from time to time. This is for K & L frames that aren’t drilled and tapped. Remove rear sight. The little tab goes on same slot that rear sight stud goes in. The front arms slide on frame very snug in front of cylinder. Usually have to tap it on with a plastic mallet. It can leave a rub mark, so I only use it on stainless guns. The marks are easy to remove. When mounted, I attach a red dot scope with Weaver rings. It is amazingly stable and holds zero even with full .357 loads. You can also use a regular handgun scope. Along with a Caldwell rest that was posted earlier, I’ve used it to develop loads for 8-10 different guns with all barrel lengths. As I said earlier, it is stable and holds true. I mounted it on a 6” model 686 and probably shot over 500 full bore 158gr and 180gr loads and at 25 yards I shot some amazing groups.

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I'm certainly no expert, but this is as good as I've found.

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Do it outdoors

This thing is great.

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/f27...d&odnBg=ffffff

Sitting at table, resting elbows on a rolled up shirt and gun on the rubber.

Yes, I always do at least the 20 rounds settling shots. Though I usually wind up using my cheap or rejected/plinking ammo for this.

One problem Im noticing (semi auto - not revolvers) is that the first round per mag always winds up being a bit of a flyer. Ive come to realize that when you hand cycle the slide closed (sling shot or slide release) it shoots differently than a fired shot cycling the slide. This isnt a problem of the ransom rest but using it to shoot at the longer distances made the problem evident to me.

I really need to get serious about this and wonder why I haven't already. I enjoy offhand shooting more than bench, but there's nothing like the bench for accuracy testing. I'm going to remedy this right away.

PS:. Oh, I did discover that my 33 round mag on my Kel Tec sub 2000 carbine sits on the bench right at the right height. And people say that high capacity mags have no use for civilian shooting.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Oh I agree, the bench testing is just a means to an end in order to help improve the unsupported shooting.

The price of the ransom rest was a kick in my butt but Ive learned and changed much since using it already. Even if what I learned was mostly what doesnt work well

What I previously thought of as the limits of my shooting skills at longer distances was in reality just the limits of my gun(s) and ammo choices. Unlike the common saying, you can apparently be out shooting your gun and not even know it.

After an regular shooting session last week, I came home and announced, I am no longer the aging blind and have no problem shooting clays at 25 yards now

You might want to check the reg's at the range you go to . The pistol range I use will kick you off , "Permanently " if caught using a sand bag rest . Paul

I understand (but don't necessarily agree with) many of the regulations at ranges like "no reloads".
That one is why I don't shoot at Gander Mt. among other reasons.
But I fail to understand a ban on sandbags.
One would think someone using bags would be safer than a freehand shooter (in general).
Luckily my indoor range has few regs limiting what I do.
They allow reloads and momentum up to 500 S&W levels.
Handgun rounds only but shooting those in carbines is OK.
Oh, and bags are OK too along with my various chronographs.
The LabRadar is the only one I take there now as it is by far the easiest to setup and use indoors.
No parts downrange. Nothing clamped to the barrel.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"