I've been reloading handgun cartridges for a few years now, and since I recently picked up an AR I thought I'd just move right into reloading rifle cartridges.

Quite the difference. After learning about trimming, swaging, etc. (and picking up the things I needed and didn't have) I finally cranked out my first batch today. I'll be interested to see how well they shoot over the weekend!

Attached Images

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Too many S&W's to mention...

Nice! Yes a lot different. I started on 22-250 and then went to pistol. It's like taking calculus before algebra. Well maybe not quite. Have fun with that AR!

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Trucks and guns.

Yup, lots of fun!

BTW your bench is far too clean and neat.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

LOL being so small most times you can't hardly see it... open a book and I'm crowded out!

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Too many S&W's to mention...

Pistol - rifle, as different as night and day for a procedure that is essentially the same.

Very nice!!

Do yourself a favor and get a case gauge if you haven't already.

EGW sells em for great prices!!!!

I have to confess I've never heard of a case gauge... if the dies properly resize the casings, why do you need something else to check diameters? And how can you tell if a round is too small?

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Too many S&W's to mention...

It's not so much about the round being too small in the AR, but too big at the base....

The dies I bought when I first started reloading 223 wouldn't size the brass down small enough at the base. SOOO every few rounds one wouldn't completely chamber, hammer would fall but not strike the firing pin.

AND MAN, are they tough to get out of the chamber!!!!

It's actually easier to use forward assist to fully seat the round, fold the upper front, and cock the hammer by hand, return and pin the upper then fire....


There's a lot of factors that go into causing it like chamber dimiensions, how hot the loads are, what brass your buying etc.. BUT, I had to buy a small base RCBS die to make it go away completely, and check all my loaded rounds with the gauge.

The case gauge is really just a bunch of dumby rifle chambers set so if the heel of the case is flush it'll chamber, and the bullet tip doesn't stick out the other end it will fit in the mag.

The "EGW" in my first post is linked to them on their site if your interested!! I bought a 7-hole

Wow... definitely lots more to rifle rounds than handgun! Thanks a million for all the good information, I'll definitely be ordering a block to check my rounds.

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Too many S&W's to mention...

You could probably open your upper and do a plunk test couldn't you? I haven't fired an AR/M16 since I was in the military in '88:P. It was an A-1 even. They were just getting around to issuing A-2s to regular support personnel right when I got my honorable. Where has the time gone?

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Trucks and guns.

The only way to see if they fully chamber is let the bolt fly and pull the trigger. (if you look closely at the position of the bolt you can tell, but not a guarantee)

With a handgun its simple, flush or below the hood, good to go. There simply is no way to tell if the round is .010 or .020 out of the chamber with an AR or any rifle for that matter. Bolt guns and lever actions have much more leverage against the cartridge to fully seat an oversized round.


Its the same reason you can neck size for just about any caliber, as long as its not a semi....

I would suggest a Wilson (or other brand) case headspace gauge. You will know instantly if your cases are prepped properly. I had some problems with my .308 AR reloads and discovered I wasn't setting the shoulder back enough. It was quite frankly a very small amount correction but eliminated the problems. After that, bought one for the .223 AR and even my .222 bolt rifle. It's simple in design and eliminates any case questions if you experience FTL's and such. Good luck!

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Webfarmer

I can't even remember what the bolt and barrel lock up looks like inside one of those sports cars. I know with my bolt gun I can feel when it's time to fl size the brass but it makes sense to have more clearance for a semi. I want to get an AR at some point but I have my eye on this .351 wsl at the LGS. Still on the fence about buying into another project. If I wait long enough maybe some other sucker will buy it.

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Trucks and guns.

Simply because it costs more?? Solid advice

Ditto on the gauge. I got a S&W M&P15 for Christmas, so I decided to reload. Did about 200 rounds before reading about the gauge, ordered one and sure enough about 100 of them would not fit. Had to order a Hornedy bullet puller and colett to demil the reloads. Should be here tomorrow. Case shoulder was at wrong angle. Also bought a thousand military 5.56 brass cases which requires another tool, a primer pocket swager. I have about 450 rounds loaded and have , as yet, to fire a round. Maybe this weekend.

Thanks again to you and all the others for all of the great information!

The case gauge is on the way, and since I've only loaded 50 rounds shouldn't be an issue if I need to pull some. I usually only load about 10 of a new recipe to see how they shoot but I was having so much fun doing something different I got carried away. I do have another question though...

At what point should I case gauge the casings? Right now this is my process (tell me if I'm out of order on something)...

1. Clean cases.
2. Decap.
3. Swage primer pocket, clean if needed.
4. Trim case.
5. Prime, charge, seat, crimp.

Where does checking them with the case gauge best fit in? And how do I check the shoulder on the casings to make sure it's in spec?

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Too many S&W's to mention...

I run all of my brass thru the gauge after I resize and punch out the old primer. It is a go-no go event. If the case fits in the gauge flush at the case head and fits at the neck then all is ok. If it sticks out at the neck end then the case needs trimming. If it rides high at the case head then the shoulder is not at the right angle and needs to be run thru the sizing die again. Military brass is thicker and hard to size sometimes. Also if the brass has been run thru a SAW weapon, the rim may have a burr that needs to be removed to fit into the gauge. Civilian brass usually does not have these issues. Military brass online sales for $65-80 per 1000 and is a cheap source of ammo for an AR15. As a note, I usually run my finished rounds thru the gauge as a check. Reloading for a semi-auto is a bit more complicated then your standard S&W 6 gun. I also have been reloading for over 30 years, but for pistols and revolvers and some of my bolt guns, never for rapid fire application. Its a new experience for me as well. I really enjoy reloading as part of the shooting sports. Hope this helps, enjoy your sport !

Although I believe the case gauge will check size AND length, I only use it for size.....to make sure it will chamber. I use calipers to check length and, if necessary, trim.

To take a sized, deprimed, and lube-cleaned-off case to a case that is ready to be primed I do the following. (This is the part of my process I like the least.)
1. I used a straightened out paper clip with a small piece at the end bent 90 degrees to scrape the inside of the case down by the head to check for case head separation. (I've never rejected a case because of this test, but I heard it was a good thing to do. Apparently if you feel a ridge or lip the case should be scrapped.)
2. Check case in case gauge to be sure it is sized correctly.
3. Clean primer pocket with a steel brush pocket cleaner.
4. Remove primer pocket crimp if it exists.
5. Check case length. Trim/chamfer if necessary.

My understanding is that some cases, "even when sized correctly", will not hold the resizing. This is why I put each sized case through a case gauge.

OR

P.S.: The rejection rate I see from checking them in the case gauge is very low - probably .5% (1 in every 200 cases checked.) So it is very rare to find a case that doesn't hold its size. But given I do find them - and in my desire to make sure when I put rounds in a mag they're going to work - I check every case.

I bet you're fun at a party eh?

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Webfarmer

I use a case gage to check the completed round.

One thing a case gage can check, both with rifle and handgun, is whether the rim is out of whack. A bad rim can inhibit or prevent chambering.

So with pistol especially, even though I do a "plunk test" using my pistol's chamber/barrel, I still use a case gage. It does pick up the odd bad rim.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

I tumble my 223 brass in corn husk for 2 hours then deprime. I then wet tumble then with SS pins for 3 hours then back into the corn husk for another 4 or more hours with polish to really bring out the shine. I then prime and measure and trim if needed. I am then ready to load. All powder is measured not dropped and then using the last two stages of my 550 I complete the rounds. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

I use the case gauge after trimming because the gauge is designed to check case length as well. As a final check to ensure every single round will feed properly, I place each completed round in the gauge before packaging them.

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"Shall not be infringed"

The case gage will tell you if the case is sized properly. That is mostly about proper shoulder location for headspace. Easybto check in a bolt gun, ss rifle or pistol where you can remove the bbl. not so easy with semiautos like the ar. A gage will hpjist speed things up.
Hopefully you havent loade a bunch of ammo. Sucks when you cant get reliable functioning. Its best to load small test batches of 3-5rds, starting at 10% below avg max & work up in 2-3/10gr increnents.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Wow, so many people here impress me, the diligence and care, this is AR ammo not bench rest stuff right, I've been doing 223 for 20 years.... after 3 reloads I'll trim, don't even measure, just use the tool.... case necks eventually crack, cause I can't be bother annealing too often, then I toss em...good luck with your first batch mate, I started on rifle then took up pistol, I reckon pistol is more difficult, cause I only use lead coated bullets Enjoy

Question to the OP, sort of unrelated;

I only load 223 for my bolt gun and don't crimp (don't have an AR). Looking at the picture of your rounds, it appears there is a fairly heavy crimp.

Is a crimp required for AR's? and how heavy, if so?

My ammo is bench rest stuff and the AR I built is for bench rest only. It has a Bob Sled inst of a magazine so I only load one round at a time and they can be longer then what will fit in a mag. With a 2 pound trigger I only shoot bench rest with it. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Good catch.

I like to put a light factory crimp on everything I load (pistol or revolver) since bullets will walk one way or the other depending on type of handgun. The factory 223 loads I bought have a noticeable crimp so I was trying to duplicate that, but the crimp die is adjusted almost 3/4 of a turn, and after looking at them I think it's a bit too much. I'm going to back off to a light crimp since the rounds don't experience the same shocks revolvers or semi-auto pistols do.

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Too many S&W's to mention...

No. I use match bullets in my 20" hvy, no crimp, they work fine. In full auto guns, crimped bullets are desirable. You are NOT expanding the neck for seating a bullet, so unlike handgun ammo, no crimp. In a light recoiling round like 223, the bullet won't "walk". It may be driven deeper into the case neck, but that is a neck tension failure & crimp doesn't help that much.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The odd thing is, I find bullets push in easier than I ever thought. I crimp all bullets that have the groove and don't on non-crimp groove bullets. This happened again tonight. I'm currently reloading some 5.56 using different bullets for different things. Yesterday it was Sierra 55 grain Blitz bullet ladder loads looking for a coyote set-up. Today it was Hornady 55 FMJBT bullets so I wanted to change OAL. I took a previous loaded exact same round with a LEE crimped bullet - put it in the die and carefully tightened the previously loosened bullet stem until I felt it touch the bullet. Miked the round and it pushed the bullet in the case a little. I am certain the neck tension is proper by pressure feel of the bullets going into the case + it was crimped.

So Fred, here's one case I potentially disagree with you. Unless people mike their rounds in between firing, how can anyone know their bullets aren't setting back in the mag due to recoil? This is something I plan to check on my next shoot. Just throwing this out there for comment. Thanks!

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Webfarmer

I use a kiss of taper crimp on bullets with a cannelure that are loaded for my AR. No cannelure, no crimp, I have checked numerous times and I don't get setback. The little bit of t/c seems to let it feed smoother.

There just isnt enough recoil in 223 to do that. This is just fact, proper neck tension us not provided by crimp. If your bullets are moving, your brass is f-d or your dies arent right or your bullets are too small. Work hardened brass loses neck tension. Over crimped rounds lose neck tension. Fix those things, you dont need to crimp light recoiling rifle rounds. Now magnums with heavy bullets, another story.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Inside/outside chamfering will do the same thing, but nothing wrong with that tiny bit of crimp.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I'll have to do a test (not that I disbelieve you but have to prove things myself sometimes). Some crimped (which is a light LEE crimp - 1/2 turn if I remember correctly) and some not. Everything same same and I'll check rounds in the mag AND accuracy at 50 and 100 yards. I can't push the bullets in against the bench but adjusting the bullet stem sure does. Perhaps it's stronger than I give it credit for. Never crimped bullets in the thousands of 5.56 reloads in the last 34 years and never had a problem either LOL.

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Webfarmer

For sure on neat.

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Joshua 1:9

I agree on the case gauge I had a few stuck before I got one

Too diff to see if it fits, the chamber is quite a ways into the receiver. SO a gauge is just easier.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Always the best way, check for yourself. There are many myths in reloading, verifying them for yourself pretty much proves them as myths.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO