I've never exceeded a maximum load from an accepted source. Speer #8 is NOT an accepted source. What I have done though is gone below minimum load, as per loading manual instructions with care to not stick a bullet or jacket in the barrel.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

You more than right. But it provides incomplete data and the only data it does provide doesn't define the pressure curve one bit. The copper crusher measures the total of the force over time required to deform the pellet. There is no inkling of where peak pressure occurred and no instantaneous reading anywhere on the pressure curve. I think that the gun industry was rather slow in adopting this technology. And being the super diehards we in the US are in changing standards, it's not surprising. Back in the mid 1960s I started hearing, "We need to start using the metric system." But the response was always,"But we'll need to retool." Well how many times could we have retooled in the last 50 years? I think the reason more was that "We'll have to learn something new" more so than any amount of retooling.

There are three countries in the world that aren't on the metric system. Liberia, Burma and....... the USA.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I was one of the early users of piezo gauges in the late 1960s. At time, the technology was so early in its development that the gauge was attached through an amplifier to an oscilloscope. There was a Polaroid camera attachment that took a picture of the oscilloscope screen, and you did your pressure or force calculations by manually measuring the Polaroid picture. We didn't have any kind of computers available at that time, and PCs were far in the future.

I hope to get to the range with my new and improved ammo today.

Prediction - Both compact pistols as well as Granddaddy third gen will be successful with the new ammo so as to be put into realiable defense use.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I guess I forget that through the early 70s they were flying spaceships to the moon with something akin to akin to a Commodore 64. My Speer number 9 manual makes mention of a piezo system like it's a new thing. When I went to work at the lab in 1977 they were still measuring the area under curves with a planimeter due to lack of computing power so you right, the technology got into the ballistics world about as fast as anything else involving computers did. My first manual was Speer #9 that was published mid 1970s

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Not true. I have Speer #8 and that 7 gr. load is for K frames not J frames. Sorry, but this is important.

You do realize this thread is 4 years old, correct?

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Regards,

Tom

40 years ago, I read a reloading manual that said "if magnum performance is desired, a magnum revolver should be purchased."

True then, true now.

Dang, a newbie bumping up a 4 year old thread almost got me!!!!

BTW rwsmith, in case you are interested, I have a 1978 edition of the Sierra book and they show a max load of 7.0 grains of Unique with their 125 grain JSP and JHC bullets, with a velocity of 1150 ft/sec out of a 6" K38. In my new Edition VI Sierra book, they show a max charge of 6.4 grains of Unique with the same bullets for 38 Special +P data. Just goes to show you how they have backed off max loads in a lot of cases from old to new data, probably due to new and more accurate pressure measuring equipment.

Your welcome. "Newbie" should be a racist remark these days. Someone so new and I noticed misinformation from a seasoned vet. LOL

Last night I loaded up a box of 105g lead SWC's over 5.6 grains of Unique and took them down to the local range.
I came here to ask about the bright blue flames that shot out from my 638 snubbie and my model 15.
But I came upon this thread.
And I forgot what I was going to ask you guys.

Now I remember. Could those flames be causing excess gas cutting or forcing cone wear? I remember the Model 19's had issues with light bullets at high velocities.
That load shot really well out of both guns.

Why not just use 9mm bullets?

I guess the biggest problem would be the lack of a cannelure to crimp in I think. CH/4D does make a cannelure tool, but it's pretty pricey.

I just ran across this thread and the following comments might already have been made......

Dunno what the intent of the original article was, but the authors at least had the smarts to do their velocity testing with a .357 Magnum gun.

Second point, I believe that the pressure testing had to be done in a pressure gun, NOT the handgun. Most pressure barrels are made to SAAMI minimum for caliber bore, groove and chamber dimensions, so some pressure increase over a mass produced firearm should be expected.

Finally, at least when I started handloading, there were some published heavy for caliber loads intended for use in heavy frame/magnum firearms. They expected the user to be bright enough to avoid using them in less capable firearms.

There was, at the time of the article, a lot of emphasis in getting maximum performance out of the .38 Spl case so the press/liberals/courts weren't rabidly screaming about the inhumane use of "MAGNUMS!" on felons. Thus the birth of +P+, which uniformly required the end user to sign hold harmless liability waivers due to the danger of excessive wear, catastrophic failure, injury or possible death due to the use of the ammunition.

Finally, the OP asked what .38s did back in the 1960's. Mostly 158gr RNL at a claimed 850 f/s, usually didn't get that velocity.

I'll back the thought that if you want to hit harder, go buy a bigger hammer/caliber/chambering.

Well, I have........

Jacket and coated 125gr bullets in my J frame snub nose and 6" 686
from low target loads to screamers.

Did it about ten years ago and then again last year.
Same results................
poor accuracy.

They will go "Bang" however.

My new J frame load for my M36-7 will be GT's 145gr. SWCHP, a 358156HP bare bottom with around 5.5gr Unique. These Go 12-14" and expand to .60" with 825fps muzzle velocity. Reviews: 38 caliber 145gr Lead Semi Wad Cutter with Hollow Point [38-145-LSWC-HP-358] - $12.30 : GT Bullets!, Fine Hand Cast Lead Bullets

^^^ GT Bullets makes some great bullets, and they have excellent customer service.

Just curious but could you share a bit more info about "poor accuracy"? Like how poor, and at what distance?

If the POA is off 1" at 20 yds for a snub nosed J-frame, that isn't bad since it is an SD gun that will almost certainly be used at half that distance and 1" off of center mass isn't going to prevent it stopping the bad guy.

Even if it is off 1" for the 6" 686 at that distance that isn't terrible.

Now if the 6" 686 is hitting a couple of inches off at 10 yards that is a bad enough to be unacceptable...

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

A pertinent post from our own bmcgilvray:

Some .38 Special Chronograph Tests

Also, if you google "Four High-Performance .38 Special Handloads", he posted a great thread on another forum that is very interesting.

3 O'clock is 3 O'clock. Sun dial, rail road watch or digital. Major ammo companies and Bullet mfgrs and manuals normally load a regular .38spl to around 16,000 and +P to a little over 18,000. They are not about really loading up against the pressure levels. I use an RCBS load Master and weigh every powder charge just before I put a bullet in the case and seat the bullet. I don't have to load a grain low for safety.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Well lets just put the cards on the table.

First , you have to KNOW if you are loading for a little J frame

or a K frame that is designed for heavier loads.

Most data is for a K frame that will shoot +P ammo all day long.

Put a bunch of 357 Magnum through a Model 19 and you will end up with a revolver that was once, a prize to own and now a hunk of junk.

Got to know the weapons limitations.

Interesting thread.

Back in the 70's my best friends dad was QA at Hercules in Brunswick GA. His job was to pull a sample of the daily powder run and load up popular loads to shoot to make sure it was consistent with the standards for that powder. He helped my dad with a Blue Dot sub-magnum load in a 38 case for a cast 135ish SWC my dad produced. This was shot out of a Speed Six. Remember that Elmer Keith used heavy S&W 38's to develop the 357 Magnum with 38 brass.

He "helped" Dad make a 38 super special load. These loads probably would have blown up a 38 but Dad had the Ruger 357. The load was accurate, burned clean, and did not have a lot of kick but it would push the slugs at 1100 fps. It was a sub-magnum Blue Dot load that was the family standard for the cast bullets we produced that I learned to make and shoot with.

I just worked up some 110grn FTX's behind 7.0grn of CFE pistol.... running 1300+ yikes

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This is the way....

Back in the early 70's, I was a student at Seattle U, and a couple of Seattle cops were in my class. I asked one of them about what ammo they carried, and it was Super-Vel 38's. Then he said that one SPD officer was loading 11 or 12 grains of Unique in 357 cases. I forfget the bullet weight but asked my gunsmith about it and he said the officer was 'a fool'.

The gun was a 357 N-frame, if memory serves.

BTW, I carried a Colt D-frame a lot in those days and I shot a few of 110 grain Super Vels through it, and the recoil in the Police Positve Special was noticable, but not intolerable.

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Let's be careful out there

But I still believe that we shoot best what kicks us least, so I don't load heavy. The Speer factory 135 gr. short barrel 357 Magnum load is a mild load
in my gun...recoils about like my for years IPSC load of 5.5 gr. Unique behind a 150-158 cast bullet. But...they are expen$ive!
I think I will standardize on a slightly hotter cast bullet load... slightly hotter than a +P load, and experiment with a good +P load for 125 and 135 gr. jacketed bullets.
Whatever it works out to be will be sufficient for practice, hopefully, to be similar in characteristics to the factory +p loads I have put by for emergencies.