Getting ready to reload some 9mm Luger for then first time. I'm waiting on the Lees dies to get here. I will be using Berry's bullets without a cantilure. I'm assuming you seat between min-max AOL. I read where it requires a tamper crimp. Are the Lees seating dies able to do this or do I need to order a Factory crimp die?

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Rick

The Lee seating die will do it, however I prefer a separate taper crimp die (for easier setup). I've found that different pistols have different ideal OAL. I use the published OAL data as minimum OAL and go longer from that figure until I find a length that makes my pistol happy.

I've been seating the traditional Berry's 9mm RN to an oal of 1.15". Seems to feed excellent through both my 1911 Range Officer and my Beretta nano subcompact.

definitely crimp. You will lose 30-60 fps with a non crimped bullet. I find a good difference once I got the hang of reloading the 9mm luger

I plan on the doing a crimp. My question was can I use the seating die provided by Lee's 3 die set or need to order a extra Factory Crimp Die.

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Rick

Yes, you can use the 3 die set and it will work fine to do the seating and crimp. I use the 4 die set because I like to crimp in a separate step (a personal preference). Also, I occasionally find a case with a bit of a bulge from seating the bullet and the factory seating die removes the slight bulge. This is probably due to slight differences in bullet diameter or slight differences in case wall thickness. Not a huge problem with the 9mm but can be significant in smaller calibers such as the 32acp.

Rick,
You asked if you could use the Lee Seating Die, provided in
your 3 Die Lee Reloading set, to effect a good crimp on 9mm
re-loaded ammunition.

The answer is "Yes." The seating die in the Lee 9mm set will
give you an excellent roll crimp on your rounds.

In fact, I have
found that a firm roll crimp, applied with the same consistent pressure each time,when seating a 9mm bullet, results in best target accuracy. Consistency in crimping is a big factor.
FYI*> 5.3 grains of Unique and 124 grain plated bullets work very well for me in terms of best target accuracy with CCI primers.

You also asked if you need to buy a taper crimp die for 9mm
reloading? < My view on this is: Not right away, you do not absolutely need to.
However, most re-loaders enjoy learning on their own and
down the road you probably will order a taper crimp die to see
if it works any better, or any worse, for you than a consistent roll crimp. This is just a part of the process of improving your equipment and growing in your personal re-loading knowledge.

Hope this was helpful.
Dave

You can absolutely use the seat/crimp die from the Lee 3 die set to crimp your round. If I was reloading on a single stage press, I would use the one die to do both functions. But, I have a progressive press that has the space to have separate seating and crimp dies, so that's how I do it. I prefer the separate functions/FCD results.

If you don't have it, I'd recommend you buy Richard Lee's reloading book, "Lee Precision Modern Reloading" It has a lot of very good information, it's easy to read, and it's inexpensive (right in line with Lee's philosophy on reloading). The book does speak to some of Lee's products, but it is a very good overall reloading book even if you don't use their equipment. It's what I read when I got started. I had no other help getting going, and this book gave me everything I needed to reload successfully. I've read several other manuals since, but the Lee book is excellent, and again, I highly recommend you taking a look at it...

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NRA Life Member

I have found that, with most auto cartridges, including the 9mm and .45acp, a roll crimp is not recommended. This is because the auto cartridges are designed to headspace of the case mouth. The primary purpose of a roll crimp is to help, along with case mouth tension (friction), prevent "bullet jump or creep" in heavy recoiling revolvers. Roll crimp on an auto cartridge can actually destroy case neck tension, resulting in the possibility of "bullet setback" when a round hits the feed ramp upon chambering.

Added: The reason auto bullets like 9mm and .45acp don't have a cannelure is because you don't roll crimp these rounds.

A taper crimp is correct for autos. Actually a taper crimp really doesn't crimp at all, it just removes the "flare" created by the expander die (die #2). Removing the flare allows smooth chambering.

I find it easier to do the crimp and seat the bullet in the same step. It just requires a bit more fiddling to get the die adjusted just right. But doing it in 2 steps works too. Your choice.

FWIW, my favorite reloading manuals are the Lyman #49 and the Speer #14. Also Hornady and Sierra. The Lee manual, dated 2003, is pretty old. Also, Lee only picks loads from other sources. It doesn't develop its own and doesn't have its own ballistics lab.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Took the words right out of my mouth. You want a taper crimp on 9mm.

To OP... be careful mentioning the LEE Factory Crimp Die on this forum. It could get ugly.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

It boils down to the finished taper crimp ending when the bullet is at the correct OAL.
So it is actually doing two things in one step.

If you have a factory Ball load you can turn your die down on it
until it is snug, with the bullet set pin removed or backed way off, to not change the bullets OAL. This will give you a ball park figure..
Measure the amount of the die body above the set screw... and log.

With a unprimed case that is belled......
place a bullet on top to be seated. Now back off your taper die off one full turn from the press, and seat the bullet and check on the crimp and OAL.
Your should have to lower the die more to remove the belling and add a taper crimp, plus shorten the OAL some.
Fine tune until you get your finished product and a "Dummy round" for that bullet at a set OAL.
Now log the length of die out from the locking nut and... the height of the bullet set screw up from the die... and save this data.

It takes time but now you can set up for a this bullet in seconds.
Have fun.

The data given in most sources is based on a certain O.A.L. that is usually stated at the beginning. AS YOU SEAT A BULLET DEEPER INTO A 9MM CASE, PRESSURE WILL INCREASE SHARPLY and you should reduce the powder charge if you are going to seat a bullet deeper than is shown. I have the same problem in that getting more into 9mm some guns (especially small ones) have an undersized clearance ahead of the chamber and I have to seat bullets deeper for those guns. But i do have to compensate. On the other hand, stretching the O.A.L. will reduce pressure.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

FWIW - in addition to properly setting up and measuring the rounds, I take the added step and drop seating each loaded round in my barrel. I still load with a single stage press - Go Green - and feel the added step significantly reduces failure to feed type of jams.

I switched to taper crimp a long time ago because as stated by others,
the 9mm seats in the chamber on the case mouth in semi auto pistol barrels. I make sure the case diameter is .377 on the case mouth.
Be careful not to over do it on the taper crimp if you go that route.
Jim

I just contacted Lee Precision and asked about the 3 die set vs. the 4 die set. Specifically, I asked if the 3 die set and the 4 die set bullet seating die provided a taper crimp or a roll crimp. The answer below is what I received.

"The answer is both. There are two crimp shoulders in our pistol Bullet Seating Dies. The first shoulder applies a slight taper crimp and the second shoulder applies a full roll crimp. The closer the die is adjusted to the shell holder the heavier the crimp will be.
The Factory Crimp Die for the 9mm Luger will provide only a taper crimp."

By the way, I also use the 1.150 AOL and believe the Lee Modern Reloading Manual provides a lot of good information and should be used with other manuals and information from the powder manufacturers when working up a load for your particular firearm.

Yup, this is called the "plunk test." It's especially important with cast lead bullets as they are a bit fatter. Sometimes finished rounds end up being too fat to chamber properly. The plunk test will cull them out. Also useful is a max case gage. It will help along with the plunk test to identify bad rounds. It will also identify case rims that have ben boogered up and might cause extraction problems.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Be aware that some brands of 9mm brass have crimped primer pockets. I have had to resort to using a Lee decapping die and then sizing separately.
Good luck in your reloading endeavors!

Crimped primer pockets usually, but not always, come with military ammo.

Common headstamps for 9mm military ammo include WMA, WCC, or FC on one side and two digits on the other indicating year of manufacture. Like: WCC 15.

I have no problem priming crimped military brass using a Lee Autoprime hand primer. I use that for everything anyway. Works great! This only works on handgun brass. Military crimped rifle brass must have the crimp removed.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

If you bought the 4 die set one die is the tapered crimp die.

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

He he that is why I didn't call it by it's proper name in my reply. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Roll crimp ? No way, not on a 9mm . Taper only.

Seems a lot of misinformation in this thread?

Roll crimping anything that headspaces off the case mouth is asinine.

The seating die with your die set will perform an excellent taper crimp.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

I too am getting confused, I currently do not crimp 9mm or .40 s&w. Is this not good ? I've been loading .40 s&w for the past 3 years and never crimped, zero feeding issues in my Glock ? I do crimp my rimmed 460 s&w mag as it's mandatory to eliminate the possibility of the bullet being withdrawn from the case from severe recoil.

Its simple, really. On a semi-auto handgun, taper crimp, to prevent the bullet from seating deeper while being banged around from the guns action, and raising pressures. Also, to provide a case mouth proud of the bullet to headspace on. Most all pistol rounds do not have rims that extend past the body of the cartridge, and if you roll crimp, only the extractor is stopping the cartridge from falling too deep into the chamber.

Revolvers headspace on their cartridge rims, so a roll crimp is used to help prevent bullets from pulling forward under recoil, tying up the gun. It also helps with proper powder burn when using slow powders in magnum revolver loads.

The Lee FCD pretty much squeezes down the whole cartridge, including the bullet, to insure feeding in any chamber. It is not needed if your reloads are properly made from the get go, and it can have a detrimental effect on accuracy, especially on loads using soft lead bullets. If you have a particularly tight re-sizing die, thick brass, and a bullet that is at its full diameter, maybe even .001 over, you will likely see a slight bulge in the case at the base of the seated bullet. This bothers some folks, but does not hurt anything. A FCD will usually remove said bulge, but what its really doing is squeezing down that bullet you carefully matched to your chamber mouths / bore, with the resultant chance of increased leading and negative effect on accuracy. My 2 cents, anyway...

Larry

This thread seems to confirm, "people don't read their manuals."

This is basic stuff folks.

Please read your manuals. There's lots of great info in those pages many seem to skip. The interweb has a great deal of useful info, but just as much very bad advice.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

The company Manuals have tested data that is proven SAFE for all weapons and some even note accuracy loads.

You just have to watch out for data that starts out with............

"but I............"


read post #22, again.

Carry on.

Since I'm using plated bullets I prefer to use the Western Powders & Load Data Guide that can be found on their site. They list data for Berry and Rainer plated bullets. Since I'm using X-Treme plated I find this data is what I need. Of course I'm using their powder.