I plan to load some .30 carbine cartridges in the near future. I have thousands of small pistol primers; can these be used vs. small rifle? If not, what is the difference between the two?

Thanks,
Mick

Dimension wise they are the same

The rifle is a thicker cup and produces more flash to ignite harder to ignite rifle powder (or in a 30 carbine h110 or similar)

Higher pressure in a rifle round may blow out a pistol primer.

Best advice is use the primer it calls for,

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Still Running Against the Wind

As above. The pistol primers will be softer and not a good idea to use with a higher pressure round.

Use the small rifle primer with 15 grains of w296 / H110 with the 110 RN FMJ.

Great little fun load to play around with..........
just don't get the idea that it is a 200 yard plus shooter.

Just that it is so much fun and you run out of ammo way too soon
enjoy.

Also you will need to check your overall case length. I find that I am lucky to get two firings out of a .30 carbine before I have to trim for length.

I've used both 2400 and IMR 4227 for the 30 M1 carbine. Mostly 110 grain and some 110 rnsp. In my M1 Carbine. Frank

Thanks for the advice. I'll be buying some small rifle primers.

Mick

^^^^^^
As robert states above, the 30 carbine headspaces off the mouth of the case and case length matters If it is over spec you will have issues some of them not good at all!

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have read that case length is critical and I have been resizing and measuring all of the cases I have accumulated. Almost all of the GI cases resize and measure within spec. The Aguila .30 cases are all over the map. I have experienced Aguila rounds not firing and sticking in the chamber to a point where a rubber mallet was required to force the bolt to the rear. Never had this problem with the stock of GI cartridges I have.

Is the case length the problem with the Aguila rounds?

Mick

I have loaded A LOT of .30 Carbine rounds. I trim everything and never had a problem. You don't have a lot of option bullet wise, kind of like a Ford Model T, there is 110gr round nose ball, and 110gr round nose soft point and maybe a couple others that will feed. I believe H110 was designed specifically for the .30 Carbine so that is all I have ever used, along with W296 of course. Just a few years ago there was pulldown US military brass and bullets available, I don't see those anymore but I got my fair share. The softest primers I have used were the Wolf copper cuped Small Rifle Primers, they worked but got kind of flattened, CCI#41's and Small Rifle Magnum primers worked better. I never tried small pistol primers.

The loads that I see recommended (15 grains H110/W296) are quite a bit less than top loads for a .357 mag load (23 grains H110/W296) with a 110 grain projectile, so I wonder about the need for small rifle primers. I guess the .30 carbine has a smaller case, so that would potentially result in a higher pressure than in a .357 mag case, so that could account for the difference.

The main reason it is not a good idea to use small pistol primers in an M1 carbine is that it has a floating firing pin. If you unload an unfired cartridge from an M1 carbine you will always notice a small indent in the primer. Using a small pistol primer, which are softer/thinner than small rifle primers, IMHO may result in a slamfire.

Did they stick as brand new out of the box or after you reloaded them??

What is their case length after sizing them??

I just read an article on Aguila. Summary was they make some good rimfire ammo and the few centerfire they make is OK, not great but good enough. Not sure if he test 30 carbine.

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Still Running Against the Wind

.30 Carbine was my introduction to Berdan priming. Back in college, went to the range early one Monday morning instead of class. Somebody had been there the previous day with probably an M-2, as there was brand new, shiny .30 Carbine empties all over the place. I went nuts and gathered up probably 1,000 or more of them. Tumbled them, went to reload and the decap pins broke. Took me a couple of pins before I looked inside the case!

Fool's gold!

Rule 3; The Aguila rounds are new cartridges that I purchased from CMP about 3 years ago. The GI cartridges are WWII rounds packed in 1944. I have never had a GI round malfunction. I have had several Aguila rounds stick in the chamber. I still had the last Aguila round that stuck and took it apart to measure case length. Un-fired case NOT resized measured 1.297. Another 20 Aguila cases after resizing, 14 measured between 1.271 to 1.277; 4 cases measured 1.280 to 1.285.

Mick

Kurac nailed it.
Tried "starting loads" at first. Wouldn't even cycle the action.
CMPs Carbine Accuracy paper says 15.0 H110/296. Tried it and it works.
Was gifted some Korean War vintage GI ammo.
At out club's New Years Day military rifle shoot, I stuck a bullet in the barrel with this stuff. It was very cold (1 degree).
So, maybe the stories about this stuff in Korea have some merit.
With proper ammo, my carbine shot high.
Discovered the front sight had been filed down. Probably to compensate for bad ammo.
Installed a new one and it shoots to the sights with the 15.0/110 FMJ load.
And, yes, trim your brass! An out of battery firing might spoil your day.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Best to use small rifle primers for carbine loads. I have used H110 mostly, and occasionally 2400. I will echo the comment about the need to keep the cases trimmed. Many will need trimming even after only one firing. I load much lighter lead bullet loads for my ****ger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine (about .32-20 level). Full loads in it are way too loud and are unpleasant to shoot. I use small pistol primers for those.

I know a lot of people swear by H110 however when I couldn't get any I used IMR4227 with good results. 14.7 grains behind a 110 grain RN got me 1900 fps.

Just finished resizing and sorting all my carbine brass. One bunch is less than 1.280 case length. Second pile is 1.280 to 1.290; anything over 1.290 was set aside for trimming. Over 95% of the GI brass fell into the 1.280 to 1.290 pile. Over 90% of the Aguila brass fell into the less than 1.280 pile, with some of them not even 1.270.

Is the any use for the short cases, possibly pistol loads?

Mick

What rifle are you shooting these out of? A genuine mil-surp rifle? Or is it a modern/replica rifle? If modern, maybe the chamber spec is not to spec.

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Thugs that comply don’t die!

Ceapea,It is a Quality Hardware, 1944 GI carbine. Never have a problem with GI ammo

Mick

Weird!
I've got a Rock-Ola that loves the Aguila. I won a recent NRA M1 Carbine Match using mine with Aguila ammo.
Good Luck!

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Thugs that comply don’t die!

Just an FYI in case you didn't know it, Starline now makes .30 carbine brass. I've used some, no problems at all. They always make fine brass in my opinion.

Back in the old days, before duPont sold off its powder business, they published a .30 Carbine loading for 4227 in their reloading data folders, and it was also shown in the older Lyman reloading manuals. I am sure it works OK, but I have never used it, only 110 and 2400.

I have a DuPont book and a Sierra book, both from the mid 80s, that have 30 Carbine load data for IMR4227. If you go to Hodgdon online load data they have some load data.

One thing to be aware of with military ammo is that China loaded a batch of counterfeit rounds marked LC52. These were corrosive berdan primed so double check any of this date LC you come across. Also even though it is a straight wall case and you can get carbide dies you still need to lube the case.

Absolutely correct on having to lube carbine cases even with carbide dies. Makes for a PIA since I wash my cases before I size to minimize die scratching - then they get washed a second time to clean off the lube.

Sure are clean by the time I am finished with them though

I generally have to lube twice with the .30M1. First with Hornady One Shot and second with some Ben Gay for my elbow. Those can be tough little buggers!

Using standard small pistol primers might possibly be a problem due to cup length and thickness and also while they are the same diameter they are often not as long as rifle primers. Magnum pistol primers should have a thicker cup and do work fine for me regardless of cup length.
I thought it was 4227 that was made for 30C? I've used H110 and 4227 and found the 4227 more accurate so that's all I use now.

Speer makes a JHP 110 that is not only much more lethal than ball or soft point it also has a longer bearing surface and has given be the best accuracy out of every carbine I've tried it in.

I have been reloading and shooting an IBM & a Underwood & a Quality Hardware since 2008. I mainly use H110 & 2400. I use 110 gr. jacketed bullets and 110 gr cast GC bullets.......I've never trimmed a case... In fact the Quality got shot today with cases that have been loaded 3/4 times .....Never had a problem......Maybe something I need to look into doing.

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S&W Accumulator

I loaded a batch of 6000 or so back in the mid 80's. Used H-110, 110 FMJ and WSR primer. It was a great combo in 2 IBM's, a Quality Hdw. and 2 ****** Universals. I have a few hundred left. The still shoot great. I used a RCBS carbide die from 1980, loaded the big batch on a Dillon 450 lubed every third round!

I believe the old H-110 and w-296 were the same chemically, but were of different density. Hodgdon says they are the same now, but if your powder is before 1998, go with older data for the correct powder. Store in 30 or 50 cal ammo cans, keeps the humidity out! Stored this way I never has a dud, even with 35 year old reloads. If using cast bullets be sure they are gas checked, so the gas block doesn't soldier shut. I used the 117 grain Lyman 32-20 bullet with GC and 4227 H or IMR. They were a little slower than H-110 jacketed loads but worked fine. My experience with the Speer 100 grain half jacket was disappointing!

Ivan

The French and Dominican Republic .30 Carbine ammunition is also corrosively primed. You are not too likely to find any of that today, but years ago, there was a lot of it sold on the surplus market.

CMP published this paper that may be of interest to those shooting and/or loading for the M1 Carbine:
Carbine Shooting With Accuracy

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Reloaded most with 130 gr lyman cast bullets for a military and copy, never had problems with case length till i was showing some to my uncle for his military and they left egg all over my face.
Years later got a Ruger Blackhawk, finally- instantly found out they must be trimmed.
Great fun round. Great carbine for smaller frame woman who usually blaze through a mag so damned fast you would swear it was full auto once they find out it goes bang as soon a you pull the trigger.
Notes-
DO NOT load one in the tube and then let the bolt go home as it may force it into a crimp in the rifling situation. Always allow rounds to be stripped from magazine.
Warning- the revolver with many loads will cause an ear splitting crack that may not win you fans among your neighbors.

I've shot the 110 grain RN,110 grain hollow point, the 100 grain Speer varminter, 100 grain speer half jacket, sierra 110 grain HP all out of the M1 carbine. Powders used at the time were either 2400 or 4227 with small rifle primers. Frank

I once made up some .30 Carbine loads using 130 grain cast bullets, and even some of the saboted .22 Remington "Accelerator" bullets. There is lots of room for innovation in reloading the .30 Carbine. As I said earlier, I used .32-20 level lead bullet loads in my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk for CAS.

Loaded 20 rounds with 110 gr. xstream bullets, 14 gr. H110. Was careful to stay in tolerance with case length. All good,with this formula. Has anyone used the coated carbine bullets from Bayou? Have used their pistol bullets with good results.

Mick

I have, used 14.5 gr of H110; works fine in mine

Tried the 110 grain coated bullets from Bayou. Seated them to 1.680, same as my FMJ rounds, could not get them to chamber Bullet diameters measured out OK but a definate no-go in my rifle.

Not really sure what the issue was, may have been the OAL was correct but the change in shape of the ogive may have been the issue.

Went back to Hornady FMJ and have not had any issues.

Probably Ogive shape. I have had the same happen in other rifle calibers using different bullets. You may have to seat your bullets a little deeper to prevent bullet interference with the rifling. Should not be a problem.

Old thread but for those tripping over it in the future:
Reading several reloading manuals they very often specify Remington 6-1/2 primers.
These are thinner than the usual small rifle primer and tend to fail when used in applications like .223/5.56 but work great in this round.
I've used the 6-1/2s, but I've also used generic small rifle primers with good results. The best results were with BR-4 primers as I recall.