Got my first reloading Squib a couple of days ago

I was loading some 125gr HP Plated bullets with 4.3 gr of Universal. I had some done at 3.5g Bullseye (soft, accurate), 4.0g Bullseye (little more pop to them, still accurate). Then came the Universal 4.3g loads. First one was very quiet, felt less powerful than the 3.5 Bullseye, no hit on the target. Stopped, unloaded the cylinder and looked down the barrel from the cylinder end...it was dark. Looked down from the muzzle end and saw the bullet looking back and me. Stopped shooting the 19 and was able to remove the bullet with a range rod when I got home (of all the days NOT to bring my range rod with me to the range!!!). I did try 5 more 4.3 Universal's out of my 686+ 3" and they all went bang with full power and good accuracy.

When I got home, I removed the lodged bullet and weighted every other round in that batch with around 1.5grain total max deviation (197.1grains to 198.6 grains). I am guessing these should be OK to shoot; I am using a LCT with the Auto Drum. I was weighing random charges and may have forgotten to re charge the case after weighing the powder.

Every reloader needs at least one squib!

A few hints:
1. Don't weigh random charges. Have a rhythm, say, every 5th or every 10th.

2. After you charge loads, put them in a loading block. When done, inspect all loads with a bright light. The low/empty or high charges will really stand out. Go up and back down each row, then turn the block 90 degrees and go up and down that way.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

I am loading on the Lee Classic Turret with the Auto Index; I check each case after the powder charging station and if it looks low or different, I check it on the scale. I like Universal over Bullseye because it fills a bit more of the case and is a lighter color, so it's easier to see inside the 38 special cases. Guessing I forgot to add the powder to the case and dumped it back into the hopper instead.

When I weigh charges I put the empty case on the scale and zero the scale then charge that case and weigh the full case - if its good it goes back on the press to finish the cycle - if not it gets dumped and back up a step.
Not that it would be impossible to make a mistake - especially if there are distractions but when loading on my Lee Classic Turret - I visual inspect every round for powder level before setting the projectile.
I did have a small batch of .45 that was giving me inconsistent results on the scale and at first I thought it was the scale but then discovered my auto-disk had come loose so I pulled down the entire batch.
My SIL has one case he made on my press before he got his own which we thought was a light strike at the range but when I too it apart the primer had popped and there was no powder or burnt powder residue in the case and the projectile had not come out of the case - at the time I figured it must have been a total lack of powder and the primer vs crimp etc wasn't enough to push the projectile out of the case - but I suppose it is also possible that the case was not deprimed from the previous firing and also got no powder - but that seems like it would be a pretty rare combination - if the only case he missed charging also was the only case that didn't have a live primer in it. (Don't recall if he primed separately or if we did that during the lesson - and if it was a distraction that resulted in the lack of a charge in that case it was likely me distracting him during the teaching process).

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the best answer to this problem IMO is a powder check die. They are cheap insurance. The easiest way to end up with an over/under is when you are weighing charges. .38 cases are notorious for being difficult to see exactly how much powder is actually in the case unless you use something like trailboss.

Right of passage,

You did the correct thing at the range Taz.

800-X is another powder that's pretty easy to see in a .38 Special case...

4.4 grs of Universal will work in my M49 "Snub nose" revolver with a 125gr LEAD cowboy design bullet at +/- 600fps.

I don't know if that light of a load will clear the friction of a long 6" barrel, though?

In my 6" 5.5grs of Universal does 965fps.
880fps is my minimum in long barrels with "Copper" bullets.

Glad that you got er fixed.................

I've had one in almost four decades and it was a few years ago in 38spl. No powder and the bullet lodged between the cylinder and forcing cone.
Excess case lube can be another cause for new loaders.
I use a brighter light since that mistake.
Most KABOOMS seem to be with progressives and semi-auto pistols.

Live and learn.
You did good.

I've been using a Lee classic turret (LCT) with the auto-disc since January and have noticed on several occasions that the auto-disc doesn't immediately spring back. This will most often self correct while the turret is rotated to the seating position and is accompanied by a spring-twang noise. When that happens, I'll weigh the next powder charge regardless of where it occurs in by QA regime (weighing every 10th round). The delayed spring-back doesn't affect the drop weight (....'cuz it's volumetric and apparently unfazed by the minor seismic event).

However, on a couple occasions, the auto disc didn't retract for the entire cycle and the next cartridge was left without powder. My QA regime also includes visually inspecting each case for powder level before inserting the projectile, and I've caught a few that would otherwise have escaped with no powder charge and thereby avoided the resulting squib effect.

Not saying that's what may have happened to Taz, but that has been my experience with the LCT and maybe should be considered. Moral of the story: it's necessary to look into each and every case for powder level prior to inserting the bullets on an LCT. -S2

Not that it's often needed, but one item I always carry in my range bag is a 6" 5/16" bolt (wrapped with tape) along with my assortment of pliers, screwdrivers, a small hammer and some Allen-head wrenches. I have trained myself to stop and check immediately if any shot seems even slightly out of the ordinary. Be especially careful if you shoot rapid fire with a revolver. I think that's how most bulged barrels occur. And that's why my DA rapid fire is intentionally not that rapid.

I've never, ever had a squib.


Because of this:

I'll admit to a couple that just didn't go bang at all. I blame poor primer seating for those.

But not squibs and I'm glad nobody posting up til now has lost anything due to an overcharge.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

You say "first squib" like you expect others. Never had one in 40 years of loading.

If you reload you will have a squib it's a matter of time. I don't think having a squib makes you a member of a club. It' not a right of passage to a club. Those who reload miss up I have after reloading and casting since 1979 it happens. Thank yourself you didn't fire another round. Will it happen to me again I hope not but with age who knows. I'm not perfect and can say from time to time **** happens. Like shooting a bad group or trying a load that may not shoot good. I reload thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive press for many different calibers. Sorry for the rant get a powder cop or a lock out die and be safe my friend.

I once loaded some very light loads..very light Shooting them out of my ol M-36 I got down to 3/4 of a grain of Bullseye before I had a bullet stick in the bbl. Using upside down 148 gr Hollow base bullets a full grain went bang every time and hit the target. Don't remember why I did the whole thing. Otherwise never had a squib...and hope I never do. Glad you caught it

A friend (goober) had a 45 Colt squib with a Judge. Fired another round and parts went everywhere. I have the rest of that box of ammo...Told me I could have 'em..nothing to shoot 'em in. Nah..I won't shoot 'em

You did very well and are textbook example of why we as range officers, reprimand our customers from shooting rapid fire. I have has a couple over my 55 years shooting and seen dozens of them on the range, fortunately no problems.

I was surprised at it and at first wasn't sure if it was a normal shot or not. I had shot some rounds with 3.5gr Bullseye just prior and they were quieter than I was expecting, but at least I saw the hole on the target! Last year I ran into some squibs in .22lr rounds and they went "Psssht" sound wise, this one sounded about as loud as a .22lr. Always pays to be safe and check more while both reloading and shooting at the range!

Long ago I taught myself to do this: When you charge a case, before the funnel comes off the case my right hand already has a bullet to cap the case off. Obviously I'm using a single stage press. It's been good insurance making sure every case is charged, and only once. Knock on wood, in over 25 years I've never had a squib. Hopefully I'll continue my reloading record.

Only been reloading for 2 years but I do not believe I will ever have a squib or an overcharge, simply because I am so meticulous in my reloading practices. I reload on a single state press and do not ever see that changing. I load no more than 50 rounds in a session and I weigh every charge. I'm in no rush. I used to charge 50 and then do the flashlight check but spilling a case as I moved it to the block with the other charged cases changed my mind about that. So now I weigh powder, inspect case to make sure it is empty as the scale settles, dump the powder into the case, and then immediately seat the bullet. When they're all done I crimp them seperately. I can do 50 rounds in about 30 minutes. As I said, I'm in no rush.

Kudo's to the OP for recognizing the squib and not firing a consecutive round ! That's when things go horribly worng ! I too had a squib about a year ago resulting from a "no charge" round. The primer combustion alone was enough to just jam the bullet into the lands. I immediately identified my squib as it was a "pop" sound and almost no recoil. Safety cleared the handgun, Did a field strip and sure enough no daylight through the barrel. I was not scared rather proud of myself that I immediately identified the situation and safely corrected. The "dry charge" resulted from myself being a handgun reloading novice who was single stage "tray loading" a 100 ct batch of ammo. I no longer tray load, now I single charge , verify charge and immediately seat the bullet. This method just works better for me.

Did that "pop" cycle the action? Did a new round completely chamber?

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Mine was in a revolver, so it doesn't cycle the action anyway.

I had that start happening and i put a drop of oil on top of the little black tab at the bottom of the spring lever where it meets the silver portion of the throttle body and it cleared up.

I agree with Mcwsky09. Once the powder is in the case keep it there. An excellent way to weigh something in a container, like powder in a cartridge, is by difference. For reloading purposes it allows for much less manipulation of the powder and might reduce the chance for a squib especially under the circumstances provided by TazTJ. For old time chemists, and I assume modern day chemists too, weighing by difference is consider more accurate than directly weighing when trying to figure out how much is in a container. I use a Lee Classic Turret too.

I don't want to derail this thread so I am going to start a separate thread this morning regarding weighing powder with the following questions:

It would be interesting to know the following from reloaders at this forum:
1. How many weigh their powders by difference versus directly? I know I do and Mcwsky does.
2. How many tare the scale where they zero the scale with the weight of the empty primed cartridge? Mcwsky09 uses this method.
3. How many use a balance scale and subtract the difference. I do.
4. How many have used a set of standard weights to check their scales. I have.
5. The definitive data regarding the best or most accurate way to weigh might be answered with: Has anyone compared a balance scale to a digital scale for accuracy including weighing directly, using the tare method of zeroing the scale with the empty primed case, and weighing by subtracting the difference.

__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well

1. Pay more attention to details during reloading.
2. Pay more attention to gun's recoil when shooting
3. Buy only factory ammo.
4. Get over it, and maintain your vigilance.

Please, Pick ONE ! "Stuff" really does happen.

__________________
S&WHF 366

Had another one today. I am using 4.3grains of Universal with a 125gr plated HP bullet and S&B small pistol primers. I loaded up a bunch of 125gr bullets today and went shooting. The squib was noticeably quieter, so I stopped and checked, yup, in the barrel again. This time I remembered to take my range rods with me. I checked the case and saw that the primer strike looked a bit weak compared to other strikes from the same gun. I checked each case before seating the bullet to check the powder level with this batch. I had another round that was almost a squib; bullet cleared the barrel but hit way low, same shallow primer strike. I am using an older Model 19-5 with the firing pin on the hammer and the strain screw locked down. Is the colder weather having an effect or am I just riding the border of squib with my powder charge?

Has anyone noticed the S&B primers being strange? I also had unburnt powder with my 6" 19 a lot today, too, almost as much as with my J frame snubby and 3" 686+. I shot the same 4.3gr Universal under a 160gr LSWC and even noticed unburnt powder with that round as well. I was showing my parents the difference that bullet weight can make on recoil; the 125gr barely had any muzzle flip and the 158 def. had more oomph to them, but were still easily manageable and both were very accurate.

The bullet that stuck in the barrel had a crimp line dead center in the cannelure and you can see the visible roll crimp, so the crimp looks to be OK.

I noticed with the S&B primers in my semi auto's, I am getting some primer cratering around the firing pin and other weird things. Maybe the primers aren't setting the powder off properly?

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

I had two squibs in one box of factory loaded .380 ACP. It wasn't cheap stuff either. No problems as I didn't squeeze the trigger after the squib event and was able to remove the bullet from the barrel each time. Manufacturer replaced the whole box of ammo even though I shot it all up.

NEVER in any of my reloads in 22 years, nor will there ever be. You can say what you want but based on the amount of attention I pay when I am loading, I trust my reloads more than factory ammo. It seems that everybody knows somebody who has had a squib out of factory ammo.

RO for years I see typically its the same guys that seem to have more than there far share of Squibs. It seems to happen more so when guys are trying to load powder puff loads.

Of all the squibs I have seen over the years I have never seen a squib that stuck in the bore that had enough force to cycle and chamber another round.

You have to really watch in matches with a low report that the shooter does not automatically tap and rack another round, and even faster with revolver shooters.

Squibs happen factory and reloads.

All I can say is visually check every charge dropped, whether you are looking in the case, powder cops die, or lock out die.

__________________
Shoot Straight and Shoot often

Loaded another 100 rds with 4.5 gr Universal, S&B primers. 2 squibs in the 19, the 3" 686+ did a little better, none stuck in the barrel, but a few that were noticeably quieter than the rest. I am going to try CCI primers next; the S&B show not only the firing pin dimple, but the whole primer face is pushed in a bit on most good hits. With the squib loads, I am seeing a less powerful primer strike as well and less de forming of the outer surface of the primer. I am also getting a ton of unburnt powder with the Universal powder (4.3-4.5grains powder charge) I am using, even in the 6" barrel with a good roll crimp.

Should I use some sort of material as a wad to keep the powder against the primer to get a more consistent burn? When I first loaded 38 specials, I put a little scrap of toilet paper into the case to keep the powder back with TiteGroup, but stopped doing so since I didn't see a difference. Maybe Universal is more position sensitive?

I am noticing strange things with the S&B primers in my semi's as well. I get primer cratering around the firing pin strike even on loads that won't fully cycle the slide. I am also getting a TON of unburnt powder (HS-6) in this case in 9mm as well (6gr HS-6 under a 124 Plated bullet).

TazTJ, first of all, do not put ANYTHING inside your case except powder.

There is something wrong and extremely dangerous in what you are doing. I have been reloading since 1980 and do not remember ever getting a single squib (bullet stuck in the barrel).

I urge you to stop and do a complete evaluation. Have your guns been "tuned" (Bubba work)? If so, bring them to a competent gunsmith and have them reset to factory specs.

Next, try shooting some factory ammo to verify that the guns are now working properly.

Next, using some normal, proven powder, like Bullseye, and some normal, proven primers, like Winchester or CCI, and some normal, proven jacketed bullets, like Speer, Hornady, or Sierra, assemble some fresh handloads and see if they work.

If all is OK at this point, then one at a time start substituting components to see if the problem arises again. If you do this one step at a time you should be able to determine where the problem lies.

A squib is dangerous. It is foolhardy to simply continue shooting.

Previous poster is being somewhat alarmist. If you have shot factory was all ok? If so..check the load you are using. If on the low end of the scale bump the load to mid range on the powder charge. If all is ok..Ta Da... If not change primers. Use mid range of the powder charge again. If still strange change powder to a aster one. Sounds as though the charge weight is too low..but I haven't looked it up. Have used many 1000s of S&B primers with no problems. Previous poster is correct on anything added to the load. It can jump pressures significantly

Factory is fine and doesn't have the weird primer issues. Guns have not been bubba'd, strain screws in revolvers are fully locked down, etc.

Hodgdon lead data is 4.3 to 4.7. I started at 4.3 and went to 4.5, still issues. Each time I have a squib or think I do, I stop, unload, check barrel and remove bullet if needed, then check the fire case. In every case, the primer hit looks strange and there is a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel and some still in the case. Using filler is discussed on numerous reloading sights, especially with 38 special and lighter loads to get a more complete powder burn. I have done so in the past with no negative results, but don't do it any more.

Bullseye 3.5 and 4 gr worked OK with the same 125gr bullet in 38 special, but the primers still looked weird. 160 gr LSWC worked well with 4.3 grains of Universal, but the primers were still strange. 9mm loads were tried thru a stock Glock 26, Stock PM-9, Stock DW ECO 9mm, Beretta 92FS Vertec. The Beretta was the only one that did OK with the 9mm and ejected, but the primers were still strange, which is why I think it's the primers, which is why I am checking here to see if anyone has had these issues or if they can see issues with my reloading data, which I am getting from reloading books and Hodgdons website.

I have CCI primers and will try them next. I heard bad reviews of Winchester stuff lately, so I try to stay away from newer Winchester stuff.

Post pics of the "weird" primers. I have used about 12,000 S&B LP primers so far. No issues whatsoever. All went bang and none looked"weird". Loading a bunch of S&B SP in 38 sp right now.

Top went bang fine, bottom was stuck halfway down the barrel. It may be hard to see in the pic, but top is a deeper hit and around the dimple from the firing pin, the primer skin (outer part of primer cup) is also now concave. I will try to find some clean brass and get other photos.

All my error! 1 fell thru the cracks & did not get powder. The important thing IMO is that you were alert enough to notice it before firing another round & why I switched from plugs & old style muffs to electronic muffs. With too much hearing protection & a loss of feeling in the hands, I was lucky to notice the squib & why I am extra alert when shooting fast for timed events.

TazT: I recently did some chromo testing with 9mm's to find out the effects of different primer manufactures. Limited to just 4 manufacture's primers that I had on hand; data was recorded on 10 shots from each. The results may be of interest to you and others:

Basic load data: 9mm Luger; 124 gr HBFP (plated Berry's); 5.3 gr. AA#5; OAL @ 1.060"; Starline cases.

Winchester WSP: 942.2 fps average; 43.5 fps max spread; 14.2 fps std-dev (winner-winner, chicken dinner!!)
Federal Premium:930.9 fps average; 65.1 fps max spread; 22.1 fps std-dev
S&B SP............: 900.4 fps average; 40.8 fps max spread; 14.4 fps std-dev
CCI SP-Magnum: 930.4 fps average; 48.7 fps max spread; 14.4 fps std-dev

The S&B primers appear to result in 3-5% less velocity than the others. Surprisingly, the very high-priced Federal Match Premium primers were the worst performer with regard to standard deviation. What does this all mean? Well for me, it reinforces the admonishment to avoid mixing my primers for any serious target shooting. Also for an SD of around 14 fps, it theoretically should result in an expected POI deviation of around 5/8" at 50 feet (...sure wish that I was that accurate).

Anyways, I too have been using S&B primers lately; have gone through around 1000 since January and haven't had any problems with them.

Based on my experience with S&B primers and what you've described, I would suspect contaminated powder in your loads. As Warren suggested, try changing things one at a time to find out what's causing your issue. I would load 10-to-15 rounds each with different primers, powders and OAL's, maybe even case manufacture's and record your bench rested results.

Thanks for keeping us advised of your findings and good luck in solving it. -S2

In my opinion the looks of the primer indicate very low pressures. Not really weird just look like lower pressure than necessary. Either powder is to low contaminated or primers may be light in compound..but doubtful on that..are theprimers slightly backed out of the case?

no one has mentioned the possibility of inadequately seated primers. That's where I would focus my powers of inspection

__________________
Some collect art; I shoot it!

I'm going with contaminated (or bad) powder. Primers either work or they don't, there's no halfway option. Or.... maybe moisture in the cases??

If the bullet went halfway down the barrel you DO NOT have a primer problem. You either have no (or virtually none) powder in the case or the powder is bad. All the data about dimples, etc., is irrelevant. The primer functioned. The problem is elsewhere.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

It happens. I've probably had a half dozen squibs in 300,000 rounds. Worse has been the two revolvers I've blown up over the last 40 years. Anything you can do to check your charge is a good thing.

"Alarmist"? Oh, I don't think so. I'm just hoping to help prevent some one from wrecking a gun or injuring themselves. But whatever...

Cases look dry before I reload them, powder is stored in the factory jugs with the lids tightly screwed down. The primers seem to be seated fully, but I will double check that. I have been checking the powder charge visually with each round loading the 38 specials, so I know there is powder, trying to rig up a light for the LCT so I can get a better view into the case.

I will try some with CCI primers, and make up some rounds with Bullseye. I think I have some 125gr JHP bullets around that I can try, too. The 160gr LSWC I loaded with 4.3 gr Universal all shot well, no squibs with those, but noticed unburnt powder. I did load some 158gr FMJ SWC's that I got a while back and those shot OK, but they were with CCI primers and Titegroup in my first batch of 38 special.

I know HS-6 likes hotter loads to fully burn the powder and some guys use magnum primers with the HS-6 to get a more complete/consistent burn.

I will try to get some pics of the 9mm primers with Universal powder and the S&B primers; they were fairly strange with cratering/primer flow showing when the rounds wouldn't even fully cycle the slide.

A bit alarmist. OP stated he had shot Bullseye loads with no problem.. So not a gun issue. I also don't put any "filler" in my loads but it has been done for years without a lot of issues so not "extremely dangerous" I guess. Just shooting factory would let you know it was a reloading issue ...Looks like a primer seating problem or a powder issue such as too light a load or actually IMO the wrong burn rate powder. Powder could also be contaminated. For very light loads I always use a bit faster burning powder. Surprisingly I do not use Bullseye..but am going to try it. I always used Red Dot because as a shotshell loader I ALWAYS had it in the inventory. Universal is in the burn rate of Unique and with a mild primer may be a bit too slow. Wasn't dissing you. BTW I loaded some 125 gr plated yesterday with S&B SP primers with my standard Red Dot load and they shot extremely well.

Powder choices I have on hand for pistol:
TiteGroup: 2#
Bullseye: 1#
AA5: 2#
AA7: 1#
Universal: 2#
HS-6: 2#

I am going to try to get to Cabelas in the next week or so and see if they have any others in stock. I am trying to work up loads with powder I can find locally and it's slim picking in CT lately Some stores only have rifle powders available still.

9mm primers fired that didn't cycle the slide. 4.0 and 4.3gr Universal.

Jacketed 115 gr starting is 4.5 gr universal..so I suspect too light on the load. Seriously you need to bump up the loads OR use a bit faster powder. BTW another little thing..if you were using Kleenex bits to hold powder down in the case on 38s..some Kleenex has hand lotion(oil) in it..contamination?? Learned this when I wiped my glasses with 'em. That sucked

I don't use the powders you mention so I can't speak to the charges you're using. But none of the pics you've posted show signs of high pressure to me.

If I just re-read the thread right, all your squibs have been with Universal. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that if the primer detonates, that's the end of primer problems.

I'd stay away from the Universal for a while and see if the squib problem goes away.

If you can't find a good load out of the powders you listed on hand, then you probably are not working up the right loads.

My personal favorites depending on bullet.
Bullseye - 115gr target
Accurate 7 or HS 6 - 124 gr competition loads near max
Accurate 7 - 147 gr competition loads near max

Both HS-6 and Accurate 7 run better for me with warmer loads and heavier weight bullets. I like the above mentioned powders because they all meter extremely well which is important. I also like HS-6 and Accurate 7 because its just about impossible to double charge a case since any double charge in a 9mm case will spill over the top.

If the primer is going off in your loads and the rounds are not going out the barrel something else is going on. I would change your powder / load.

Also do not put a filler in the case to hold powder near the primer, this can cause other problems and there is no reason to introduce that variable.

good luck

__________________
Shoot Straight and Shoot often