GUYS, I have always gotten good advice here but been stocking up on 5.56 ball ammo but thinking if the current political situation changes after the election, 9mm ammo may be taxed to the max.

I was contemplating reloading to save money, but if I buy new brass or even once fired, I won't be saving that much. Is it better to stock up on 5.56 or 9mm?

You need both. If the anti's attack handgun, the 9mm would be better to have, but if they attack the "assault rifles", a few thousand .223 might be better. I've go t around 5000 9mm on hand, but severely lacking in 223.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

IMO, reloading is where your head should be at for any future govt BS. Even buying once fired brass, you can make 223 for about 25c a round/$250/1000. Sure you are not saving much there but saving still. Keep in mind as you reload that brass the cost of it gets amortized so you get down to about 18c each or $180/1K. With 9mm, I can cast & coat my own bullets & reload 9mm for about 5c each/$50/1000. If you have time, a Lee Classic turret w/ dies & access for both calibers will run you about $350. That is what, 1000rds of ammo, a no brainer. If your time is worth more, then a Dillon progressive setup like the 550B, about $700 with everything. The diff is 150rds/hr vs 400/hr, both are conservative numbers.
It's cheaper to stockpile components than ammo. You can reload a pistol case 15-20x if you don't go max. FOr rifle, 10x is pretty doable, stay way off max, maybe 15x. So you can get by with a few 1000 rds of brass in each caliber, then lay in the primers & powder & bullets. Learn to make your own bullets & scrounge for the mat'l. they are free.
Ok you really want to make cheap 223, I make my own bullets out of spent 22lr, cost me nothing but time & of course the gear, but I will never run out of 223.

FWIW, I haven't bought 223 or 9mm brass in the last 5yrs. I get all I want at the local range. Plenty of factory ammo guys shooting & leaving it all behind. I stopped picking up the 223, I probably have 4k rds of it, double that in 9mm. I do pick up every 45acp I find though. :-)

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Get both.

If stinky, nasty stuff hits the fan and you're standing in front of it you might need this:


For legislative falderal and shenanigans and the subsequent fear or reality you might get brass, bullets, powder, and primers and especially focus on primers and powder. I reload because I remember when some of the ammo I wanted wasn't available. It seems to be a cyclic phenomenon and no reason to suspect it won't be an issue again.

For every "either" or "or" question at the S&W Forum the standard answer is "both." For example:
Q: Do I get the shiny nickel revolver or the pretty blue revolver?
A: Both.

__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well

I reload for many calibers, including 9. However, if I can buy factory 9 for $10.00 or so, I do. I found a sale on .223 late last year and got another 500 rds.

I do reload and have been using whatever brass I find on range floor to use. I am kind of stuck on buying quality FMJ from Hornady but have been using Polymere coated Bayou Bullets which are much cheaper than FMJ. I guess for SHTF, is there a reason not to go with Bayou Bullets? It also seems using whatever brass I find on range floor is a cadinal sin but so far using Bayou Bullets with mixed head stamps, I have not encountered any Failure to Feed or eject issues.

Is buying new brass worth it? or buying remanufacturered reloading brass?

What's wrong with using range brass? I use range brass for many different calibers and have for over 25 years without any problem. Just inspect the same as you do for your own brass. It would be a cardinal sin NOT to use range brass if it's available to you.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

[QUOTE Is it better to stock up on 5.56 or 9mm?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Well, the most popular ammo gets sold out first. .22LR is still not widely available and the last election was in 2012. if you want to stock up, you will need .22LR, 9mm, and 5.56, .45ACP and 7.62x39 are also popular so those wouldn't be bad to add to your stash either. If you have .22LR ammo you can even trade it for other ammo you may need, this is when money can't even buy it because none can be found for sale.

There's nothing wrong with using range brass. I've used range brass for the last 30+ years. I do however inspect the range brass and toss the junk brand names and tend to discard brass that looks like the puppy played with it for a couple of weeks.



You should:
Get axis to free lead & free brass
single stage reloading press, scale, dies, powder throw
bullet molds and casting pot
learn how to reload, cast bullets, swage jacketed bullets.

Right now I can load:
100 38spl's/158gr hp's $3.25 (lead bullet/150gr jacketed)
100 9mm/125gr hp's $3.80 (lead bullet/147gr jacketed)
100 44spl/200gr hp's $3.80 (lead bullet/225gr jacketed)
100 45acp/200gr hp's $3.80 (lead bullet/225gr jacketed)
100 44mag/250gr hp's $6.00 (lead bullet/265gr jacketed)
100 223rem/62gr hp's $11.00 (jacketed bullet)

I can either load a # of different lead/cast hp's or home swaged jacketed bullets for the same $$$$ listed above.

Buy yourself a used rcbs rockchucker press, a good powder throw and a scale. You can reload and swage bullets with that rockchucker.

Coated bullets are better than nothing, I actually like coated lead bullets. I cast and coat my own. Free range lead ='s free hp's for the 9mm



I make 62gr hp's for the 223 from free 22lr brass & free range lead. I also make a 55gr hp for the 223 from free 22lr brass & free range lead.



Take the range brass you find and either use it or sell it or trade it for something you can use. That's how I got started 30+ years ago. Sold the free brass and free lead and used the $$$ to buy reloading equipment, casting equipment & reloading supplies. I still do that to this day & this is what I bought this year from free lead, brass & copper. 25# of pistol powder

Get yourself a flintlock rifle and a cap and ball revolver. Stock up on percussion caps. You can make your own gunpowder and cast your own bullets. You may want to start bottling and saving your own urine now, for future use in powder making and convert a part of your yard to a place where you dispose of your solkd waste. Sure, some people might think you are crazy, but you will be ahead of most of them. Solemn nod.

I do not reload for the .223/5.56 but rather have stocked up on ammo (military FMJ). As I look at the .223/5.56 as a relatively "weak sister" the last few years I have been buying Hornady .223 55gr soft nose in the 50 count box's. The soft nose ammo seems to be a big "force multiplier" for the round. On unarmoured targets one round in right place will do the job, important if you are by yourself or have limited support. Picking up 2-4 box's on each outing can add up! I load for the 30-06, .308 Win, 45-70 and .243 Win. Don't really know why I haven't done the same for the .223/5.56.

__________________
Stay safe people!

Reloading might not make much sense to you now, but it will,in time as component and ammo prices go through the roof. Reloading would be my suggestion, as well.

During the late unlamented ammo shortage, I was shooting, and a lot of my friends and aquaintances were not.

Reloading for the .223/5.56 is fun and easy and much less expensive, except often for the chore of swaging the crimp on the primer pocket.

The 55FMJBT as found in the original M193 loading for the M16 is every bit as lethal as the 55SP. It's the 62 gr. M855 "green tip" that tends to poke a .224"-sized hole in the target.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

I buy factory ammo for both calibers and can reload for both calibers. It's not about "savings" so much, as it is about "availability". I won't get caught "short" ever again, you would be ahead of the game if you started reloading your own and acquiring components now. And still pick up factory ammo when on sale as well. I don't think you can have "too much" these days-I didn't use to think that way; but we all saw what happened the last few years!

seems we all have damaged memory ... look back two years or less and whatever the hot spot was, will again be.
22LR

__________________
it just needs more voltage

I spent last year stocking up on ammo. Right now I'm sitting on 3k rounds or more of 9mm, 40S&W, and 5.56 which are my 3 main calibers. I've also got around 500 rounds of .380 and 38 Special. Still need to pick up some more 44Mags.

This year I started buying reloading equipment. At this point, I've got everything to load .380, 9mm, 38 Special, and 40S&W. Still need 44Mag dies and will need to get a case trimmer, primer pocket tools and the dies for 223/5.56 and I will be able to reload everything we shoot except 22lr. Been buying primers and powder a little at a time and already have quite a bit stockpiled. As so as I have all my reloading stuff together I'll be picking up more ammo if the price hasn't gone gone out of sight.

I want someone to explain to me how you guys are loading 9MM and 38s for a nickel (9s) and $3.25/C for 38s, when primers are running $35/M. That is three and a half cents for just the primer, if my math is right...

They cost me a little more than a nickel.
Hand cast bullet $0.035
Primer $0.035
Powder $0.02
Brass $ free range pickup
Total $ 0.09 per round or $ 4.50 box/50
For 38Spl it is the same except I can’t find free range brass so I must spend $ 0.04 each. Brass can be loaded at least 10 times, thus that adds $ 0.20 per box for a total of $ 4.70

in a word? BOTH. one can never have to much money, guns, or ammo... and i'm good with my 22lr stash thank you!

__________________
why? why not?

I think the answer to your question would in large part depend on what type of gun you have.

__________________
Forum consigliere

BTW, if you have some doubt about the effectiveness of the plain-jane old-fashioned M193 55FMJBT, see here:

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

As others have suggested, reloading will the option that gives you the best economics AND availability when the next shortage hits. If you get started with a moderately priced press (LTC comes to mind) a couple of 8# cans of powder, 10K primers and another 3-4K of basic bullets, you can ride out anything we've seen to date. Even if it lasts years.
As for brass, my local ranges are usually swimming in 9mm and .223 brass that newbe's leave behind. However if you don't have a source, it my be smarter to buy loaded brass cased (reloadabe) ammo and just save the cases yourself .

Bottom line is that either route will take some investment but the reloading path will give you "longer legs" to ride out the worst of it.

__________________
Dave

I only buy new brass for max pressure loads. If i buy handgun brass for general range use or for putting up shtf ammo, once fired is fine. Range pickups arent necessarily bad. If i watch a couple guys shoot up 200-300 rds of 223 factory, no issue picking up their once fired brass.
Buying new brass for shtf, you might as well buy ammo, cost wont be much diff. For some calibers, it can be cheaper to buy factory ammo & shoot it for the brass. The 6.8 comes to mind.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

....that if anything gets heavily restricted it will be 5.56 first due to the high cap, black rifle thing. Of course it doesn't matter that black rifles can be chambered in about a dozen or cartridges with little modification

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Some guys can't resist quoting per round cost using stuff they bought 15yrs ago. I always quote cost at todays prices, even though i have primers i paid $15/1000 for, powder at $15/#. If you cast your own from range scrap, your bullets are free but for time & a bit of elec, maybe bullet lube or powder coating. So even at 1/2c per bullet, any pistol bullet only costs you 1/2c. Primer for 3c, powder for service caliberss, 1c. So you can do 50rds of any service caliber for well under $3. Btw, most i have paid for promers in the last year is $30/1000 all in, & i never buy the russian krap. Like most things, buy in bulk for best price. Pretty easy to find primers under $30/k.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Is there anyone who believes that reloading components will not be sold under the same restrictions as ammunition if the wrong administration comes into power next year? Those people are plenty smart enough to close the "Reloading" loophole. Might even be a requirement to have a very restrictive "reloading license," or just outright tax it or ban it out of existence.

Just in case the SHsTF, best to have plenty of 9mm, .223/5.56, 22LR, 12 gauge, and a big game cartridge, your choice of .308 or .30-06. While you are at it, don't forget 38 Special and .45 Auto also. And .357 Magnum. And 44 Magnum. And. . . .

What was the question?

I want someone to explain to me how you guys are loading 9MM and 38s for a nickel (9s) and $3.25/C for 38s, when primers are running $35/M. That is three and a half cents for just the primer, if my math is right...


Some of us bought 1000's of primers from cabela's when they had the s&b primers for $20,00 (actually 19.99) and free shipping.

If I'm doing the math right that's $.02 apiece. Powder @ $25 a # with a 3.5gr load is 2000 loads per pound or $.0125 a round. The bullets are nothing more than free range lead for cast or free range brass and lead for jacketed bullets.

So if the math is correct that $.0325 a round or $3.25 per 100 for 38spl's.

9mm.44spl/45acp all use a 5.0gr load or 1400 loads per # @ $25 a # or $.018 a round. Free brass & bullets, $.02 for the primer and $.018 for the powder ='s $.038 a round or $3.80 per 100 for 9mm/44spl/45acp's.

44mag's with 11gr loads or 636 per # or $.04 apiece for the powder and $.02 for the primer or $6.00 per 100

223's with 25gr loads or 280 loads per # or $.09 apiece. $.02 for the primer, $.09 for the powder , the bullets and brass are free. That's $11 per 100 for jacketed 55gr hp's or 62gr hp's for the 223.

If you look around you can get your primers cheaper than $35 per 1000 and your powder cheaper than $25 a #.

Seriously, look into BP guns, preferably ones that do not require primers and archery...and a sling shot. Even under fairly Draconian and corrupt governments, BP sport shooting and hunting remains. It is usually even legal. Nigeria is a case in a point.

If you hoard percussion caps, then you have available relatively advanced breach loading rifle designs that use paper or rubber cartridges as well as multi shot revolvers. The pure lead round ball out of an 1860 Army, let alone out of a Walker or Dragoon, will do some damage. A .577 Minie ball meanwhile makes a truly horrible wound.

If military caliber small arms rounds are heavily taxed, made illegal or simply unavailable due to hoarding, odds are that you can still be sending arrows and lead down range for recreation and hunting with more primitive arms.

In most states BP arms, bows, and slingshots ship to your door, no FFL needed, and no paperwork.

Yes but it will be closed after the ammo thing passes, not likely concurrently. They really are not that smart.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

For the OP. This is a good question. However, any way that you look at it - a handgun is for when you want to be armed without attracting attention to yourself or for fighting your way to your rifle.

The rifle is the far better option for hunting or defense. I would stock with the higher percentage going toward the rifle. Stock a few hundred quality rounds for each such as Federal Fusion for the rifle and gold dot for the pistol. Then stock allot more FMJ.

Since you reload, start setting aside components. Id go 2/3 rifle and 1/3 pistol.

On Wednesday, after Pres Obama got elected the first time, I bought 60K of primers for $17 per thousand with HazMat fee. I learned a lesson from Mr Clinton. Over the last 7 years, when I find $20 per thousand primers sitting on gun show tables, I buy them all. So far I've only needed to buy small rifle primers.

Pick one:
1. Learning from past experience.

2. Planning ahead.

Two weeks after primer purchase, I bought 60# of powder for about $19 per pound.

__________________
S&WHF 366

Primers are your #1 focus if a reloader. I can make bullets for all my handguns & for my 223. I can scrounge powder from other ammo that I don't have guns for, including sg shells, but you have to have primers. Yes you can scrounge primers from other ammo but they may or may not go bang after removing them. Then add powders as you find them. Faster pistol powder load a lot of rounds. 8# of say WST will get you about 14k rounds of any service caliber.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

When stocking up for SHTF, a prudent person would think outside the box on chamberings and guns.

Stocking up on military calibers and .22 LR when there are no shortages are good ideas.
But let's not put all our eggs in only a couple of bsskets.

It is a serious mistake to do as many do in depending only on guns in military calibers, with the idea that they will be able to scrounge .223, 9mm, and .308.
Why they think this is beyond me.
These will be the most sought-after and hardest to find calibers during any national emergency. If you think the recent shortages have been tough ( with no emergency ) just wait until there is a real one.
Guess which calibers have been the hardest to get and the highest price during the recent shortages ? ( .22 LR also ).

As for talking or trading military personnel doing National Emergency Duty out of some of their issued ammo, forget it.
They will be expressly prohibited from selling, trading, or giving away even a single round of the small amount each man would be issued, and would be expected to account for EVERY SINGLE ROUND issued on a daily basis, with severe penalties for violations.

A better idea would be to have one or more additional rifles in purely hunting calibers such as .22-250, .30/.30. .270, .243, .25-06 .
In handguns, I would lean towards .22LR, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45ACP.
There has been no shortage of any of these calibers anywhere as far as I know.

When stocking up for SHTF, a prudent person would think outside the box on chamberings and guns.

Stocking up on military calibers and .22 LR when there are no shortages are good ideas.
But let's not put all our eggs in only a couple of bsskets.

It is a serious mistake to do as many do in depending only on guns in military calibers, with the idea that they will be able to scrounge .223, 9mm, and .308.
Why they think this is beyond me.
These will be the most sought-after and hardest to find calibers during any national emergency. If you think the recent shortages have been tough ( with no emergency ) just wait until there is a real one.
Guess which calibers have been the hardest to get and the highest price during the recent shortages ? ( .22 LR also ).

As for talking or trading military personnel doing National Emergency Duty out of some of their issued ammo, forget it.
They will be expressly prohibited from selling, trading, or giving away even a single round of the small amount each man would be issued, and would be expected to account for EVERY SINGLE ROUND issued on a daily basis, with severe penalties for violations.

A better idea would be to have one or more additional rifles in purely hunting calibers such as .22-250, .30/.30. .270, .243, .25-06 .
In handguns, I would lean towards .22LR, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, and .45ACP.
There has been no shortage of any of these calibers anywhere as far as I know.

If there is something worse than prices going up it's not to have any available at any price.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Good information, but I have never heard a powder measure called a " powder throw " before.

You are getting a lot of great advice here. I would add a few suggestions, though.

Stocking a greater amount of rifle ammo over pistol is prudent, you will most likely rely more on a rifle or carbine than a pistol, one would hope. There is nothing wrong with using range brass or purchasing once fired brass. Replicating military M193 (223) and M855 (9mm?) is not a bad idea. When loading for the SHTF events, don't worry about overpenetration.

I have reloaded for about 40 years, and I have almost all of the equipment that I need. I reload rifle and pistol ammo, plus shotgun shells. I cast many of my handgun bullets, and try to have a good supply of rifle bullets on hand. I also try to have bullets and dies available for cartridges that I don't own, but can barter for other supplies.

Try to avoid learning what load works best with your back against the wall. Develop loads prior to the SHTF. Try to have most, if not all, your brass loaded and waiting for use. One nice thing to have on hand for your box magazine rifles are stripper clips and the corresponding spoons. When reloading before the SHTF, try to develop loads for powders that you don't normally use, and keep records, since you never know what you may scrounge when supplies shrink. Stockpile the components that work for you when you can.

Also, please remember, if and when the SHTF, chances are good that you may have to be mobile in order to survive, and you won't be able to drag your reloading room behind you. Consider a Lyman 310 Tong Tool with dies for your primary arms.

Also, at one time I remember seeing a tool on the market for making percussion caps out of foil and the roll caps that many of us grew up with.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

The run on guns and ammo after the last two elections was nothing more than mass hysteria. It was completely irrational.

I've been hearing the term "powder throw" forever & use it myself sometimes.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73