I will be a new pistol reloader. I would like to load 45 acp for general range shooting. Before i start buying powder I would like to just pick one and stick with it. I read the top powders my go away (W231 & HP-38). So rather than start with them i would like to use anither powder.

Bullseye
CFE Pistol
Tightgroup
WSR

Have many followers.

If I pick just one, which one should I use?

TiteGroup is pretty similar in charge weights and volume to 231 and HP-38 and an alright general purpose pistol powder.

Many stay away from the large flake or extruded powders due
to the way that they meter and go with the "Ball" type powders
that fall through the loading systems better due to not "Bridging"
or having to be cut if overly long in size.

I use both but some ball powders do not fill the cases like the
flake powders, due to their fine particles and you have a little
higher chance of a double charge or charges may be off a little
more due to volume/density involved.

I use a single stage and check my tray before adding the bullets
and have yet to get a double charge, even with Bullseye but you
still have to keep on your toes when using powders.

They all work and good luck finding a clone to w231 etc.

I use nothing but AutoComp in my .38 Super and .45ACP target loads. It's clean, accurate and best of all, available.

Ed

I have used several powders for 45acp and each has been fine for me. On my use list is HS6, WST, WSF, Bullseye, Universal and Titegroup which all meter very well as does the HP38/W231 powders. Titegroup is a bit more touchy on charge weights and is a low volume case filler so be very careful about possible double charges.

Of your powders listed Bullseye is a very nice metering and workable powder that can be used in many loads and calibers so a good powder to get familiar with. Your WSR if you mean WST is one I like very much too.

Powders I used that don't meter well for me are Unique, 700x

Karl

i am using whatever is available....Unique, 700x seem to be showing up a little more than before, AA #5, HS6, WW540, just traded into a can of Zip haven't fired it yet but will test tomorrow.

Sort of like the waitress in the old diner said to me, " Don't tell me what you want, this is what we got!"

Powder seems to be the same..........

Randy

I've used a lot of bullseye and unique.Bullseye meters nicely and since I use a uniflow measure with a baffle, unique works for me too.

Bullseye and Titegroup are similar; both burn considerably faster than 231/ HP-38. All are good .45 ACP powders. Rumors about 231 / HP-38 being discontinued are Internet rumors.

I use only cast bullets in the .45 ACP and have found Bullseye to be ideal for all bullet weights. Whether or not there are better powders for jacketed bullets, I don't know, but would expect choices to be similar.

I've used Titegroup, 231 /HP-38, HS-6, Unique, and at least four or five others. Lots of good choices, but I would stay away from the ones that don't particularly flow through a measure well, like Unique and 800X.

I use Bullseye and WST in my .45s. The w231 and HP-38 seem to do better in the 9mm.. Just my $.02.

Colt Gov't Model / Kart NM barrel, & Colt LWT Commander / factory barrel.

I load a 200LSWC-BB from Dardas, & find 4.6 grains of TiteGroup (I've got a BIG jug) produces nice groups. Light taper crimp. Lyman M expander die. WW SP primers. WW brass.

Although the TiteGroup flows uniformly through my Dillon 550 powder measure, I still keep an eye on it - before seating a bullet. That goes for ANY powder though...

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Regards - GCF

I started using Autocomp/CFE Pistol when the shortage of W231/HP38 was at it's worst. I've come to prefer AC and CFE so now that 231/38 is showing up, I pass on it. I started using 231 in the '70s so it wasn't a change I took lightly.

HP38 is not going away. If you look around there is a ton of it in the pipeline right now. If it were to go away I would look at Alliant BE-86. It is new, so unlikely to disappear like some of the older more expenseive to make formulas like HP38, and has been getting solid reviews.

The reality is that you should not limit yourself it a single powder. IMHO. You can have a primary but you should have another powder in the stable.

I however do not believe HP38 is really going anywhere. If you are married to it buy a bunch of 8lb jugs next time you see them. I passed on 5 the other day when wiedners had them in stock.

I have used W231, TiteGroup, Bulseye, HS-6, and AA5. I did not like HS-6. All the others worked fine. I don't have a preference among them. I buy what I can get.

I was at the Tulsa show and powder was everywhere. One guy had an unreal price on 231. He said he had tons of it as he kept ordering it even when backordered and now he needed to move it cheaply. He said the factory told him they would like to discontinue 231 because of the difficulty with processing compared to newer powders and they would like to see loaders move to the newer powders. He said due to the problems with making 231 they are going to make it in large quantities but only once or a few times a year.

He seemed legit and not a BSer. Take it for what its worth but it does fit the stories and apparent glut of it showing up all of a sudden. I have plenty on hand and it was tempting to get more but I am going to start working on alternatives. CFE to start with.

HP-38 and Win231 aren't going anywhere anytime soon. A shipment of HP-38 just arrived at my door today, in fact!

As to the powders in question: any fast powder, loaded lightly will suffice for general range shooting. Not sure what bullets you'll be using, but my suggestions would be: Bullseye, CFE Pistol, Titegroup, Ramshot Zip (almost identical to HP38/W231), WST (I really like it with lead bullets).

Good luck!

Check out Powder Valley, They have HP38 in 1 lb cans

If you have an Academy Sports store in your area look to see if they have Titegroup in stock.

The 3 Academy stores in my area sell it for about $20 per 1lb.

A 200gr LSWC over 3.5gr of Bullseye has been a .45acp reloading staple for hole punching forever but BE has gotten a bit pricey.Bass Pro Shops have 1lb of BE for $30.

I stock up on Bullseye,Unique and Red Dot whenever I find a good deal on them.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

If you want to stock only one powder find one powder and buy a whole bunch of it. I remember when I first started handloading I thought a pound of powder was a lot of powder. Those were the days.

So, put it in another way, there are no supply guarantees in the powder world. The prudent among us do two things, one is they have a bunker full of pistol powders, and two they plan years ahead for supply problems.

This is actually a good time to get started because with the exception of Federal small pistol primers, just about all components, especially powder, are easy to find. Buy now or cry later.

Sorry, not even close, TG is quite a bit faster & quite a bit smaller volume. TG also doesnt play nice with lead bullets.

Imo, if you want w231/hp38, go buy it. Its a good gen purp powder in 45acp. 8# will get you about 10500 rds, its going to be around for awhile. I'ma WST guy, but that is even more scarce. A sleeper powder, cheap, clean & accurate, is ramshot competition. As noted, wither buy big or have several choices. One never knows what will be available going forward. Sevral of my fav powders have gone extinct over the last 40yrs.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Faced with the same issue of what to buy when my current stock of HP-38 runs out, I decided CFE-Pistol was most likely to remain available the longest.

JMO of course, but as you can see there are people who will jump all over HP38/Win231 and it's traditional rivals when they come available. Then there's my belief that CFE-Pistol was developed with the current regulatory environment (ie, added manufacturing costs) in mind, and so is more likely to have a sustainable manufacturing process. Anti-copper fouling is a side benefit.

How does it perform? Quite well. It is shaped like HP-38 so it meters as well. The different color tinge is probably reflective of its copper removing formulation.

CFE-Pistol costs a couple (yes 2) dollars more for an 8 lb jug at Powder Valley, and you use more. But 8 lb jugs are available, so it costs less than 8 x 1 lb. Finally, in my calibers (9mm and 45ACP) it can deliver velocity more in keeping with the calibers' potential than HP-38. So even if the net cost is a bit higher, it is capable of delivering more.

Just a thought

A little more love for CFE-Pistol here as well. When everything was scarce I began looking for the powder that I could stock for emergency use in the future if things dried up again. CFE can be used in many different loadings and is available relatively cheaply right now. A good conservative investment for me for long range planning.

thanks for the thoughtfull comments.

being as I have'nt loaded pistol before. what is the ballpark number of rounds from 8 lbs?

Just bought a 4 lb jug of WIN 231.

There are 7000 grains per pound, so 56,000 grains per 8# jug. The number if rounds depends on your individual load.

56000 / grains per load = loads per 8# jug.

__________________
Common sense isn't so common.

I just got a couple of 8 lb. jugs of HP-38 a few weeks ago. Seems to be plenty around right now. That said, six months ago when I couldn't find any I got some CFE Pistol as a backup. Haven't tried the CFE Pistol and probably won't as long as I have HP-38 kicking around.

I have been hearing about the discontinuation of HP-38/W231 for a few years. I will believe it is going to happen when it actually does.

Yes, 231 is also readily available around here. I don't see it disappearing anytime soon as the powder companies have already dropped the powders that can't be produced using the newer, less time-consuming technology.

Ed

In these times of shortage and the dreaded "not in stock", you have to be prepared to use whatever powder you can get.
Those you have listed are great , to that list add:
Red Dot and 700X.
I keep a list in my wallet and check the local dealer's shelves often for anything that I can use to reload handgun ammo with. For years Bullseye and Unique were my two powders, that came to a screeching halt a few years ago when they couldn't be found for blood or money. Found Red Dot and 700 X and they work quite well.
Concerning 231 powder , I saw several cans sitting on a local dealers shelf last Saturday...are you sure it has been discontinued ?
Don't hamstring yourself with just one powder , powder flexibility is not a bad thing.
Gary

Scored an 8# jug of bullseye a couple weeks ago. That will hold me over for a little while.

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Common sense isn't so common.

45 ACP? You haven't mentioned bullet weights. I use Int'l Clays for 230 XTP's and Longshot for 250 JHP ... flawlessly ... exceptionally clean for autos.

As i noted earlier, about 10,500 rds per 8#.
Look at shotgun powders as pistol powders. A better chance shotgun powders will be around. Again though, have at least two powder choices per caliber.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Honestly, I cant imagine looking for a substitute to HP-38 when it's readily available. I would suggest you buy a pound and try it, I'd imagine you;d quickly be buying an 8 pounder afterwards. It's my favorite powder, and the only one I use in .44 mag and special, .45 acp, 38sp, and 357 mag.

Glad all are ignoring American Select (Smile)

I notice in a lot of posts that people are saying that their local supplier doesn't have powder. When the powder shortage started a few years ago, powder wasn't available (or very expensive) at my local sources. I started buying online because I could find powder (it wasn't easy, but it was there). Powder is still spotty locally, but I'm still buying online because the prices have come down. I just ordered 16 lbs of Autocomp on Thursday from Wideners (they had it on sale, imagine that) after hazmat and shipping, I'm getting it for $20 per lb delivered to my door. (it will be here Tuesday) Wideners puts different powders on sale on an almost daily basis, I signed up for email notices. I kept watching Autocomp dropping in price until I couldn't resist. Just thought I'd pass this on. One never knows what the future availability of powder will be, especially after the upcoming election.

If that is all you use in your magnums, you are short changing yourself. Any medium burner is a better tool for the magnums, Unique up thru hs6.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I load Bullseye for .45 ACP, and I buy it when I find because I load Bullseye for .45 ACP.

Beartooth Bullets > Ballistician's Corner > Loads/Pound of Powder

This can give you ballparks, so in my instance, for low end .38spl's, an 8lb jug of lets say TiteGroup would yield around 8,000 rounds. In .45acp that would be closer to 6,000 rounds for that particular powder etc.

you are a new loader ... eliminate titegroup from your list.
This might be a good powder for those seasoned and versed, but for those who might not really know the quirks of their equipment yet, its a KB waiting for a place to be.
Instead, you are better off with slower powders that will better forgive misunderstandings between lab data and reality.
Power Pistol, Unique, Universal, CFE Pistol will do better for you.

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it just needs more voltage

Shelfs were full of 231 and HP 38 today at my LGS. A welcome sight.
Its my goto powder for .38spl, .45 Auto and .44mag light shooters with cast bullets.
Jim

I use mostly W231 offloading the 45 ACP and I highly doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon. Even if it were to be discontinued I would buy 2x 8Lb jugs and probably be set for life. If I had to substitute I would use Ranshot Zip. I also like AA#5 in the 45 ACP

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I dont have to have recoil just to have fun. With HP-38, I get velocities in the 1100 fps range in my magnums, a clean gun, very clean cases that barely need to be tumbled, great accuracy, and very long case life. I don't feel short changed, I think I've found the best powder for my needs.

Thank you for pointing out that titegroup is easy to load incorrectly when not careful. I saw others mentioned this also.

Mid Post takeaway.

4 powders look to be favorites

Bullseye
CFE Pistol
HP-38
W 231

These are recommended but not as often

Power Pistol
Unique
Universal
Autocomp

I plan to load with a Dillon 550, so metering is very important. Are all 8 powers equally well metering?

And any additional info on the second 4 powders I listed is welcome

It's like being in a candy store these days compared to the recent drought Lot's more than this in stock but .........

Hodgdon CFE Pistol Smokeless Powder 8 Lb by HODGDON , IMR & WINCHESTER
Winchester Autocomp Smokeless Powder 8 Lbs by HODGDON , IMR & WINCHESTER
Hodgdon Titegroup Smokeless Powder 8 Lbs by HODGDON , IMR & WINCHESTER

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

I've found that Unique's metering characteristics leave something to be desired - w/ my Dillon 550 powder dispenser.

That said, when hand measuring (which I do a lot of), It works well for heavy bullets - in large cases.

Interestingly, no one has mentioned VV N-310 for .45acp. Pricy, but popular. Got a reputation for clean burn, efficiency, & accuracy.

VV powders provide fairly good, case filling bulk, & also meter very well.

__________________
Regards - GCF

these shouldn't necessarily be sorted into a powder popularity contest.
often times in a Ford Vs Chevy debate, its most gratifying to drive away in the Porsche

a better way of looking at powders, quirks aside, is to organize them like gears in a transmission.
of the 8 we will drop Unique for its dubious metering leaving 7
HP-38 and 231 are the same powder so its really 6

bullseye ... clearly first gear
231 is probably second
power pistol and auto comp run tight to eachother for third
cfe pistol 4th


Universal fits somewhere in the power pistol area as well

Where an engine might make peak power at 5000 RPM and become shrapnel after 6500, this stuff works similarly.
Powders come into their grooves at some point in the upper end of the pressure curve without playing chicken with the redline.

you need an easy shooting target load ... bullseye might be your thing.
want a little more power to make that 45 feel like what you paid for, something out of second or third gear might be what your looking for.
defense / bear / special collection .... 4th gear.

__________________
it just needs more voltage

Hey thats great, being a car guy that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. Not having loaded pistol rounds I started with the favorites approach. your explanation is better.

se

do all weights and type of bullets work with all of the powders we are discussing or is it based on burn rate?

I'm an OLD bullseye guy. Have used it since I began loading pistol many years ago. For .38 at the range, I load 3.2 grains of BE pushing a 158 grain plated semi-wadcutter produced by Xtreme bullets from Carson City, NV. Comfortable load which won't beat your hand and very accurate. As for the .45 ACP, I load 4.2 grains of BE pushing a 200 grain plated semi-wadcutter also from Xtreme. Again, this is a load that doesn't beat you up and provides excellent accuracy.

Any of the very fast powders will work best for moderate target loads. If this is the route you go, try to find some Hodgdon Clays or Alliant Bullseye. If you want to velocity a bit, try the medium burn rate powders like BE86, HS6, Unique. The medium powders work best toward the warm end of their load spectrum.

I'm going to disagree a bit. From what I've observed, CFE Pistol and Autocomp are the same powder (much like HP38 and W231). I use both powders CFE for minor and Autocomp for major power factors. But I have substituted CFE for Autocomp in my powder drop, didn't change any settings, and the weight of the powder was identical for both powders, then I shot them over a chrono and found that up to 160 power factor, they both shot the same speed. Now when I got over 165 and finally to the 172 that I normally shoot 9 major, the CFE was 20 fps slower. I was getting 1380 fps from CFE and 1400 from Autocomp. Hard to say what the difference was caused by, I could load up some new rounds and the results could be reversed. But in the minor power factor range, I use them interchangeably.

Disclaimer...9Major loads are not for the inexperienced (or timid). the load data is well off the chart on the right side of published data